Aerosoft CRJ Developers...Please answer this question on LNAV Tracking issue (over-correcting, swaying back and forth)

[Mathijs Kok]

Ha_Ma, after your post there was an internal discussion on our devs and advisory pilot discord channel.

 

Now nobody understands why you need to change your approach on nearly every flight (or why you would not simply fly it), but more importantly there has been done work on that in the last update. Since then we had a few reports that we simply could not recreate.  I personally have not seen it since late summer (but I run early beta etc)

 

If you can recreate this issue reliably (as you state you can) would you be so kind to make a video and provide us with all the information via mathijs.kok@aerosoft.com? 

[Ha_Ma]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Mathijs Kok:

What is the reason you need to change the approach on nearly every flight?

I did not say that it happens nearly every flight. But it happens that ATC gives me another approach as it was in my flightplan, just as it may happen in real.

I do not know when this happens, but if it does then my aircraft has to work as it should, just as real.

[acbent123]

Changing approaches aside, has there been any further work done on the LNAV swaying back and forth? That was the intended focus of this thread. 

[CRJay]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:48 PM, Mathijs Kok said:

I disagree with that statement. I fly the CRJ  a lot and I see hundreds of people use it online. They and I do not see it as nearly useless. Indeed changing the approach is an issue that needs to be looked at but to be honest, I almost never do that and when I do, I know it is an issue and simply fly the procedure myself. Just as a real pilot would do. 

 

What is the reason you need to change the approach on nearly every flight? That's not very realistic, right?

And again, should you need to do that once in a while, why not simply take out the chart and fly the approach?

 

 

 

 

 

A real pilot would also note the issue in the technical log, and maintenance would most likely declare the FMS or the loaded software inop, which would affect airworthiness of the aircraft and with such a serious issue, most likely also of the fleet. After which the issue would be escalated to the manufacturer to find a fix. Only their developers would most likely not have the luxury to drag their feet on fixing the issue due to several authorities overseeing things.

 

[Ha_Ma]

Am 15.12.2022 um 17:00 schrieb acbent123:

Changing approaches aside...

You are right. Sorry for going too far offtopic! 

[Mathijs Kok]

1 hour ago, CRJay said:

 

A real pilot would also note the issue in the technical log, and maintenance would most likely declare the FMS or the loaded software inop, which would affect airworthiness of the aircraft and with such a serious issue, most likely also of the fleet. 

 

 

Let me check, are you a pilot? Because if you would be you would know that issues with flight management are very common and most certainly do not lead to a fleet being grounded. We have dozens of images of crazy routings, MCDU's loading waypoints on the other end of the world etc. 

 

Please login to display this image.

Try flying that! And believe me, this is does happen and pilots do not worry a lot about it, they just fly the aircraft. In fact, they like doing so.  The reason it happens is EXACTLY the same as in our code (or that of PMDG or whom ever), it is because it is damned complex code and there are always conditions that you do not anticipate. And time is not your friend as every month you are working with a new dataset and there will be new issues.

 

As said we knew about this issue, and it has been worked on. I have asked for Ha_Ma to supply me with some information and so far we have not received anything we can check.

[Mathijs Kok]

On 12/15/2022 at 8:00 AM, Ha_Ma said:

I did not say that it happens nearly every flight. But it happens that ATC gives me another approach as it was in my flightplan, just as it may happen in real.

I do not know when this happens, but if it does then my aircraft has to work as it should, just as real.

 

Ha_Ma, at this moment I am unable to find your post where you discussed this issue. 

And as asked, if you can show us the issue with the current code we gladly look at it. 

[Ha_Ma]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mathijs Kok:

And as asked, if you can show us the issue with the current code we gladly look at it. 

Well, what shall i say... I tried to replicate the issue today twice and it did not work. Or let me say: It DID work - the Aircraft i mean.

I posted how i could bring the CRJ to a freeze weeks ago and one of the Aerosoft Team answered me that he could replicate it, but told me that my way to change an approach was not the right procedure. I do not know where this discussion was here in the forum.

Anyway, in another german forum two people told me that they have the same issue even when they keep programming in the MCDU for a longer time. As this behaviour was an immersionkiller for me i stopped flying the CRJ and bought PMDG's 737-800 what i really love to use now.

Just for testing i took the CRJ out of my hangar today and i could not replicate the issue.

But i think there is an other issue when you change the approach. Because the first one is not overwritten an keeps in row with the new approach what messes up the flightplan.

[Mathijs Kok]

Again if you feed us the correct information we would be glad to look at it. Just tell us EXACTLY what you did, what was loaded, and what did you change and it will be looked at. Just saying 'something' happens and you 'think' there is an issue will not put us in motion.  If you can't replicate it reliably, changes of us fixing it are not great. And as stated, this was worked at, and at this moment you seem to be the only one who still has issues. Saying there are people in another forum who had the same issue does not really help us a lot. What procedure did they use? What version of the code did they use? 

 

Just give us the steps to replicate. Until you can I will close this issue.  Facts. 

 

Still unable to find the post where you stated there was still an issue. Can you point it out to me?

 

 

 

[CRJay]

10 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

Let me check, are you a pilot? Because if you would be you would know that issues with flight management are very common and most certainly do not lead to a fleet being grounded. We have dozens of images of crazy routings, MCDU's loading waypoints on the other end of the world etc. 

 

Please login to display this image.

Try flying that! And believe me, this is does happen and pilots do not worry a lot about it, they just fly the aircraft. In fact, they like doing so.  The reason it happens is EXACTLY the same as in our code (or that of PMDG or whom ever), it is because it is damned complex code and there are always conditions that you do not anticipate. And time is not your friend as every month you are working with a new dataset and there will be new issues.

 

As said we knew about this issue, and it has been worked on. I have asked for Ha_Ma to supply me with some information and so far we have not received anything we can check.

 

Let me check, YES, and on the CRJ with a couple of thousand hours. And in case it wasn't obvious, I was continuing your poor real world comparison. If in the real world my FMS freezes when changing arrivals or approaches, and does so regularly, that is a bit more than a minor issue and will go in the tech log.

 

And to press the poor comparison a bit further, since it can happen on all the CRJs in your addon, it can happen on the entire CRJ fleet, making it a serious issue for the manufacturer. Luckily, as I mentioned, real world manufacturers take issues and bug reports a bit less lightly than Aerosoft and have a bit more manpower to actually support products they sell.

 

Saying "just fly the procedure manual like real pilots do" is fighting a symptom and not the root cause. And putting the responsibility of guiding you to a root cause on your users is poor support. Your addon sells like hot cakes according to you, at a profit I assume. So invest to get the manpower on the job to hunt down the bugs or just admit the addon is as good as abandoned until Mr. Hartmann maybe has some time or interest again.

[Ha_Ma]

@CRJay: Are you able to cause the freeze of the AS CRJ while handling the MCDU? It seems that i am no longer able to cause it.

[Ha_Ma]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Mathijs Kok:

Still unable to find the post where you stated there was still an issue. Can you point it out to me?

Please have a look here: https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/174403-crj-freeze-when-in-mcdu/

And from another user, other root cause, but quite actual (and after 1 week not answered!): https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/174926-msfs-freezes-when-trying-dir-intc-fmc/

[acbent123]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:36 PM, Ha_Ma said:

You are right. Sorry for going too far offtopic! 

No worries! Any posts that keep the thread active are good. 

[DGH]

Luckily we have working 737 LNAV ... no back and fourth swaying and happy passengers.

Almost 2 year anniversary of this LNAV bug ... 

 

ANY NEWS ? 

[Richard Dastardly]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:51 PM, DGH said:

Luckily we have working 737 LNAV ... no back and fourth swaying and happy passengers.

Almost 2 year anniversary of this LNAV bug ... 

 

ANY NEWS ? 

Given how the DC-6 AP is currently going all over the sky too, I wouldn't go too far down that hole

 

I haven't actually flown any of the CRJs in months, I'm presuming SU10 & 11 didn't help at all?

[deadly_titanfart]

Any update on the LNAV issues? Seems people are asking in this thread and no response. Funny considering other things in this thread get responded to. Flying a straight line is fine but any turns and it has major issues. This was my first Aerosoft purchase but as of now it may and probably will be my last. There have been constant people asking on the forum and even this thread, not to mention tons of other online forums so I know its a known issue and not something that I am facing? Is the model at Aersoft just to release stuff and never update or even fix it? Or is since the team has moved onto the next plane, that this plane will just be revisited when they get time? You got the money already right, so what is the point of fixing the issues in a timely manner when you can get more money for the next project? I really hope I am wrong as I have heard nothing but good things in the past about Aerosoft but this has really changed my opinion and while im excited for your future projects I can't recommend anyone to purchase them after almost 2 years with a common issue as LNAV

[Seekay]

I truly do not understand why this is taking so long. This issue was first reported literally only a few days after the initial release. It has been nearly TWO YEARS and you still don't know what the hell is wrong with the plane? Not good, guys. Not good.

 

Like the poster above, this was my first Aerosoft product, but with the way you've handled (or should I say not handled?) the situation, it will likely be my last, and I will also strongly caution other people against buying it.

[Herman]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:25 AM, Seekay said:

I truly do not understand why this is taking so long...

As has been stated in other places (but perhaps not here), Hans Hartmann, the lead developer on the MFS CRJ has been very busy on other projects for some time and for other publishers, including the ATR 42/72 for Asobo due out in March. He needs to get those behind him before he has time to circle back to one of his earlier ones and resolve reported and repeatable issues.

 

We know it's not easy to keep waiting, but that's all we can do until Hans is able to get back to the CRJ.

[deadly_titanfart]

Not trying to be rude, just like everyone else here I just want the plane to be better. I understand Hans was the developer, but that still is a bad look to not even have the plane in a somewhat finished state (I mean we are talking LNAV here, not some random system you might use occasionally) before moving on to another project. Like it was stated above, this issue was known upon release it wasn't just an Asobo update that broke it, instead the project was basically abandoned until "more time" is available. Two years later and we are still facing this issue. But since Hans and Aerosoft have received their money, I guess they will just revisit when time permits?  

[starvip]

19 hours ago, deadly_titanfart said:

Not trying to be rude, just like everyone else here I just want the plane to be better. I understand Hans was the developer, but that still is a bad look to not even have the plane in a somewhat finished state (I mean we are talking LNAV here, not some random system you might use occasionally) before moving on to another project. Like it was stated above, this issue was known upon release it wasn't just an Asobo update that broke it, instead the project was basically abandoned until "more time" is available. Two years later and we are still facing this issue. But since Hans and Aerosoft have received their money, I guess they will just revisit when time permits?  

 

I think that's the part I and many others cant get our heads around. How can you move onto another project when the CRJ has been zig zagging across the sky for two years? Its like me building house and saying ill install the heating later, ill come back to it when I've finished building another house while the owners freeze in the first one (maybe a bit dramatic but you see the thought process).... Its so so so close to being an absolute must fly. Its fantastic on performance, detailed enough, fun, but every time I come back to fly it, it gets shelved again for a few months as ATC on vatsim ask me "where are you going" as the plane starts doing its own thing. I really really hope one day it comes good. Would be a massive shame. Fingers crossed.

[slippingwithflapsin]

Following. About every other flight on the CRJ I get this issue. The LNAV is borderline untrustworthy. You have to keep the heading bug ready to intervene at any given moment, which is not something you should have to do. And before I get the "are you a pilot because it actually happens" speech, I fly an RJ in real life and if my aircraft did this I would squawk it and not fly it. 

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[DGH]

WOW .. busy with the ATR 

 

Ow and we had the "user error"... and the "we can not replicate" ... and the "the real plane does it " ... "and the we are working on it " ... And the simple fact there are hardly responses from Aerosoft ... 

 

AND "I will NEVER ever buy any Aerosoft product anymore"

[mopperle]

Quote

And the "We simply doe not respond anymore on paying customers "

Any source for this quote or just ranting?

[DGH]

Adapted .. good you noticed my small error ...  hope it is better now.

 

Wish Aerosoft put more energy in fixing bugs instead off wasting energy on forum moderating and correcting (frustrated)  paying customers that have those bugs for 2 YEARS .