Aerosoft CRJ Developers...Please answer this question on LNAV Tracking issue (over-correcting, swaying back and forth)

[acbent123]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, Hans Hartmann said:

The issue is known but not easy to reproduce. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. Anyway, a fix for it was NOT part of the latest update. We're still searching.

Best of luck in your searching. I look forward to the eventual fix as I've been experiencing a lot of the hunting lately. Thanks.

[Richard Dastardly]

4 hours ago, acbent123 said:

Best of luck in your searching. I look forward to the eventual fix as I've been experiencing a lot of the hunting lately. Thanks.

Yes, this seems awkward & may require a whole chunk of code rewritten just to find it, let alone fix it...

 

It does feel like it could be a gain issue, or possibly a clamping issue in a controller somewhere, although not sure quite how that relates to a 200nm leg causing oscillations without knowing the actual algorithms ( if the a/c is generating a steerpoint, then maybe there's a lot of noise in the generation when there's a long distance ). If that's the case the mystery is why, in a system which is *supposedly* accurately timesliced, some people have it worse than others.

[JetNoise]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Richard Dastardly:

Yes, this seems awkward & may require a whole chunk of code rewritten just to find it, let alone fix it...

 

It does feel like it could be a gain issue, or possibly a clamping issue in a controller somewhere, although not sure quite how that relates to a 200nm leg causing oscillations without knowing the actual algorithms. If that's the case the mystery is why, in a system which is *supposedly* accurately timesliced, some people have it worse than others.

 

Yeah, OR it needs a ASOBO/MS  FMC update (someday) to fix the issue. Pure guess, maybe some truth behind it.
Would explain the "helplessness" of AEROSOFT to fix it themselfs....
More than enough examples have been posted meanwhile (the last MONTHS) , me thinks 

 

Oliver (me HAPPILY flying other airliners and GAs with NO issues !! )

[Tomcat_22]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:53 PM, Hans Hartmann said:

The issue is known but not easy to reproduce. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. Anyway, a fix for it was NOT part of the latest update. We're still searching.

Not easy to reproduce... it's been happen on almost every flight since the CRJ was released, fly into LSZH coming from the north in a north to south wind (so you have to fly past the airport, do a ''U-Turn'' to land on either RWY32 or 34. You'll see it struggle with VNAV

 

[Richard Dastardly]

13 minutes ago, Tomcat_22 said:

Not easy to reproduce... it's been happen on almost every flight since the CRJ was released, fly into LSZH coming from the north in a north to south wind (so you have to fly past the airport, do a ''U-Turn'' to land on either RWY32 or 34. You'll see it struggle with VNAV

 

This is about LNAV though, and even for me who's had problems since the start ( a rig upgrade ago ) LNAV issues are inconsistent.

[Tomcat_22]

Not for me, I've been having the over turning and correcting in about 90% of my flights, it's not every flight, but the vast, vast majority of flights, doing 1 now, just overturned and it corrected itself...

The orange is how it should have went, it didn't.

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[acbent123]

Been flying the PMDG737-700 lately. It doesn't have the LNAV issues that the CRJ does. One thing I noticed, and mentioned earlier, is that in the CRJ, the wind direction displayed is 14 - 17 degrees off from LittleNavMap. In the PMDG, it is bang on. Is it possible that that could - in some way - be affecting the LNAV in the CRJ?

[acbent123]

On 8/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, Tomcat_22 said:

Not for me, I've been having the over turning and correcting in about 90% of my flights, it's not every flight, but the vast, vast majority of flights, doing 1 now, just overturned and it corrected itself...

The orange is how it should have went, it didn't.

Please login to display this image.

This was my experience too. As such, I have hangared the CRJ until a fix is out and I'll keep flying the PMDG737. Overall, I do like the CRJ, but I'm shelving it until a definitive fix comes out. 

[Tomcat_22]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:18 PM, acbent123 said:

This was my experience too. As such, I have hangared the CRJ until a fix is out and I'll keep flying the PMDG737. Overall, I do like the CRJ, but I'm shelving it until a definitive fix comes out. 

The CRJ series has been been out for months and sadly there has been no talk of a fix, I believe the best I read was ''we'll look into it'' then nothing again.
At this point I'm hoping a modder or modding group and sort this out as it seems Aerosoft isn't capable of fixing it, whatever that may cause it.
It's a pity tho, I love flying the CRJ but it just sucks that the LNAV is so bad usually, when it works it's great tho but that's seldom

[acbent123]

10 hours ago, Tomcat_22 said:

The CRJ series has been been out for months and sadly there has been no talk of a fix, I believe the best I read was ''we'll look into it'' then nothing again.
At this point I'm hoping a modder or modding group and sort this out as it seems Aerosoft isn't capable of fixing it, whatever that may cause it.
It's a pity tho, I love flying the CRJ but it just sucks that the LNAV is so bad usually, when it works it's great tho but that's seldom

I agree. It's a shame because there is so much good about the plane. I hope that they do find a fix eventually because I'd love to go back to flying it. It's perfect for my short haul routes. 

[Richard Dastardly]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:36 PM, Tomcat_22 said:

The CRJ series has been been out for months and sadly there has been no talk of a fix, I believe the best I read was ''we'll look into it'' then nothing again.
At this point I'm hoping a modder or modding group and sort this out as it seems Aerosoft isn't capable of fixing it, whatever that may cause it.
It's a pity tho, I love flying the CRJ but it just sucks that the LNAV is so bad usually, when it works it's great tho but that's seldom

This isn't the sort of thing a modder can fix unless they somehow decompile a bunch of code libs ( and if they did, they wouldn't dare say anything because that's well outside even generous T&C ). If Aerrosoft are reusing some code for a future project like the Airbus then it needs fixing anyway.

[Tomcat_22]

On 9/19/2022 at 2:43 AM, Richard Dastardly said:

This isn't the sort of thing a modder can fix unless they somehow decompile a bunch of code libs ( and if they did, they wouldn't dare say anything because that's well outside even generous T&C ). If Aerrosoft are reusing some code for a future project like the Airbus then it needs fixing anyway.

Perhaps I phrased it wrong, I've not got the 1st clue of modding so I'm just blabbering if you will, getting rid of some frustrations I guess, what I meant with a modding is having the plance force read a different AP system or one that over-rides the default one, at least the LNAV, heck I don't know, but how it's currently, is absolutely not fun.
As for reusing some code, I believe their next plane is the A330, maybe, not sure, I should hope they wont use any of this code, probably can't anyways as the FBW has different logic... But yeah, at the end of the day, I hope this gets fixed because I've also parked the CRJ for now, I'll use a bigger GA plane or the 736 for short hops, one that can actually fly an LNAV plan.

[Richard Dastardly]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:43 PM, Tomcat_22 said:

Perhaps I phrased it wrong, I've not got the 1st clue of modding so I'm just blabbering if you will, getting rid of some frustrations I guess, what I meant with a modding is having the plance force read a different AP system or one that over-rides the default one, at least the LNAV, heck I don't know, but how it's currently, is absolutely not fun.
As for reusing some code, I believe their next plane is the A330, maybe, not sure, I should hope they wont use any of this code, probably can't anyways as the FBW has different logic... But yeah, at the end of the day, I hope this gets fixed because I've also parked the CRJ for now, I'll use a bigger GA plane or the 736 for short hops, one that can actually fly an LNAV plan.

 

I've no doubt you could insert your own code in there if you patched the entire plane to look at it instead of the aerosoft code, but then you'd have to write an awful lot of the system yourself anyway. You'll love how it actually works... as far as I remember any code a third party uses has to drive the MSFS built-in autopilot rather than taking direct control of the aircraft. I could be misremembering that but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

 

An autopilot is an autopilot, a FMS is a FMS, they all do the same job inn the end with differeint front-ends, so reusing CRJ code for an Airbus or anything else is quite possible.

[Rico10]

On 9/14/2022 at 10:18 AM, acbent123 said:

This was my experience too. As such, I have hangared the CRJ until a fix is out and I'll keep flying the PMDG737. Overall, I do like the CRJ, but I'm shelving it until a definitive fix comes out. 

This. I decided to pull the crj off the shelf after flying the PMDG for a couple months and its hard flying this with the hunting after turns when the PMDG handles LNAV turns perfectly.  I found this thread after doing a google search because I thought it was just me noticing this.  

[Hans Hartmann]

32 minutes ago, Rico10 said:

This. I decided to pull the crj off the shelf after flying the PMDG for a couple months and its hard flying this with the hunting after turns when the PMDG handles LNAV turns perfectly.  I found this thread after doing a google search because I thought it was just me noticing this.  

I'm working on the problem and it will be fixed. However, I'm still in the process of tracking down why this is actually happening at all. Out of the six stages of debugging, I'm currently at stage 4 ("why does that happen?"). It's not easy to find as, at least for me, it only occurs from time to time. As soon as I found the reason, I shall let you know.

[Sasquatch]

It seems to occur for me when there is a rather sharp turn in the nav path, maybe 45 degrees or more, and also there is a strong crosswind, like 30-50 kts above FL300.  Although I've had it happen at lower altitudes as well, this seems most consistent.

[DGH]

wow ... been gone for months ... just to see ... nothing changed 😞

 

still wiggle wiggle .. still no solution after al this time.

[mryan75]

On 10/5/2022 at 3:45 PM, Hans Hartmann said:

I'm working on the problem and it will be fixed. However, I'm still in the process of tracking down why this is actually happening at all. Out of the six stages of debugging, I'm currently at stage 4 ("why does that happen?"). It's not easy to find as, at least for me, it only occurs from time to time. As soon as I found the reason, I shall let you know.

If I can help d be happy to. Are there any scenarios we can test? I fly 3-hour legs in the plane pretty much every day.
 

I’ve had the issue, but today I had it lead a fly-by waypoint perfectly on a T-shaped LNAV approach. Other times I’ve had the swing, although to be honest the most swinging I experienced was on an RNP approach…. I figured that one out eventually 🙄😅

[acbent123]

Any news?

[Ha_Ma]

The news is that the developers are busy with other projects

[Richard Dastardly]

Fairly sure Hans is working on the ATR for Asobo atm...

[mikkel]

Mathijs, I think you are not taking the issues with the CRJ seriously enough. It's got an amazing model, great EFB, wonderful audio and mostly fantastic documentation and systems. However, the aircraft is still in such a state 'bug-wise' and 'feature-wise', that it's even not possible to follow the tutorial flight (from Düsseldorf to Basel).

 

Without me having an oversight, and not trying to be rude to comment on it, but it sincerely seems like you're a bit understaffed on system programming at AS to keep up with todays expectations. Even default MSFS planes are becoming quite solid in their system and autopilot modelling, the last update by Working Title is quite impressive.

[Mathijs Kok]

Agreed on the Working Title, but that is funded by Microsoft and has funds that we are unable to match. 

We have not closed this project in any way. It still sells amazingly well so it will be maintained. It is just that all the people involved are at this moment occupied on other projects. That has nothing to do with taking things seriously, it has to do with the fact that working 60+ hour weeks as Hans does is really enough.  

 

That reminds me, I am typing this at 21:05, need to get a life.

[Ha_Ma]

Mathijs, you and your colleagues should all have a life! I work 37.5 hours a week and i say THAT is really enough.

But what i ask to myself: Why does Mr. Hartmann turn to a new project while there is so much work to be done in the existing one?

The amazingly selling CRJ is nearly useless for me (and other users) because it mostly gets stuck when changing the approach in the FMC.

[Mathijs Kok]

I disagree with that statement. I fly the CRJ  a lot and I see hundreds of people use it online. They and I do not see it as nearly useless. Indeed changing the approach is an issue that needs to be looked at but to be honest, I almost never do that and when I do, I know it is an issue and simply fly the procedure myself. Just as a real pilot would do. 

 

What is the reason you need to change the approach on nearly every flight? That's not very realistic, right?

And again, should you need to do that once in a while, why not simply take out the chart and fly the approach?