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Sounds are still not acceptable for a payware product!


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vor 4 Minuten, Eirik Christoffersen sagte:

I have to say im very dissapointed with the sounds in the update. Its still alot of problems that i cant understand developers didnt notice!

 

1.Still no smooth changes in rpm (Something that we expect in a 30euro addon in 2022)

2.Still abrupt changes in the sampes (The sounds go quiet before the next sample kicks in)

3.No difference in the sound when the engine goes from feathered to unfeathered.

4.The starters are way to loud now compared to the other sounds of the engines.

5.Badly spatial sound difference.

 

  

Sadly, I have to agree to each and every point. I'm willing to see the efforts made.

But to be honest, for me it's worse then before - during startup I was under the impression I had done something wrong, because the engine suddenly shut off. Checked and found a running engine. Weird.

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I am here to agree with you, in comparison to Milviz's PC-6. The sounds still need work... BUT I think it is better than v 1.00. I do hear a difference after startup in feathered, and advancing props forward, in the prop noise. I have not done a proper flight yet (later tonight) to try feathering in a glide and back to full forward to see how the sound changes. Otherwise I tend to agree with your points.

 

Am I alone in thinking they may have turned down the sounds a bit too much now? I personally was fine with the high volume earlier. Anyone know if this is an easy thing to tweak by myself?

 

 

 

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I agree..and it's such a shame,because the sounds are recorded very well.

 

The thing is that for the engine sounds (my main concern, but not the only one) need to go up and down in pitch as RPM goes up and down. I know this is possible in WWISE, because literally every other plane in MSFS does it. The only planes that don't are the Aerosoft ones. The CRJ exhibits the same issue.

 

So if you have, say. 5 recordings of the engine, you map them along the range of RPM. let's say you're idling, you have one sample for that, and as the rpm goes up, so does the PITCH (Frequency) of the sample, until that sample no longer accurately resembles the sound the engine makes for that RPM. As the pitch goes higher, you crossfade to the next sample, which needs to be tuned to the same pitch the previous sample left off..and on you go.

 

here's a nice demonstration of how that's supposed to work:

 

 

So this is a job done right. But whomever did the sound for the Twotter did get the transitions, but the PITCH doesn't change between each sample like it does in the example above. So you get this weird crossfade result, which sounds completely unnatural.

 

maybe the Aerosoft sound guy can ask this guy on youtube for some help.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Payt Laros said:

I agree..and it's such a shame,because the sounds are recorded very well.

 

The thing is that for the engine sounds (my main concern, but not the only one) need to go up and down in pitch as RPM goes up and down. I know this is possible in WWISE, because literally every other plane in MSFS does it. The only planes that don't are the Aerosoft ones. The CRJ exhibits the same issue.

 

So if you have, say. 5 recordings of the engine, you map them along the range of RPM. let's say you're idling, you have one sample for that, and as the rpm goes up, so does the PITCH (Frequency) of the sample, until that sample no longer accurately resembles the sound the engine makes for that RPM. As the pitch goes higher, you crossfade to the next sample, which needs to be tuned to the same pitch the previous sample left off..and on you go.

 

here's a nice demonstration of how that's supposed to work:

 

 

So this is a job done right. But whomever did the sound for the Twotter did get the transitions, but the PITCH doesn't change between each sample like it does in the example above. So you get this weird crossfade result, which sounds completely unnatural.

 

maybe the Aerosoft sound guy can ask this guy on youtube for some help.

 

 

Thank you for posting this here.

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I am in agreement with everyone here. The new patch is a small step forward but still does not sound realistic. I'm not sure what the issue is since every other airplane in MSFS (including multiple 3rd party add-ons that I own) sound like they're spooling up and down smoothly based on throttle and prop feather inputs.

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As much as I want to defend Aerosoft here, as I generally really like the Twin Otter, the sounds are extremely subpar still. If it wasn't for the sounds I'd really enjoy this plane, but the audio is so glaringly bad that it's like a punch in the face everytime I have to adjust the throttle.

Yes, the transitions are a bit smoother than before, but the complete lack of gradual pitch change just sounds extremely unnatural. The startup and shutdown don't sound like they were improved much at all and are still full of hard cuts and 3d positioning issues.

On the original release I assumed they just ran out of time and had to throw in a first draft of the soundset to hit a deadline. Obviously not ideal, but hey, I've been on enough projects where the planning doesn't work out as intended and you just have to go with it and salvage it afterwards. But if this is the fix I'm not so sure that Aerosoft actually knows how to fix this. I have never worked with WWISE but variable pitch is surely not a super advanced or complex feature. What's really puzzling is that the manual explicitly credits Turbine Sounds Studios and, without knowing their exact involvement, this might even hurt their reputation to a degree.

Maybe this is just an intermediate fix and the final soundset is still in the works and will take some more time. But for now I will assume this is as good as it's gonna get and hope for a mod that will make the sounds bearable. Until then it pains me to say that this plane will stay mostly grounded for me.

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I'm another simmer who thinks that the sounds could still be a lot better than what we have been given with the update, yes they are better than at release but come Aerosoft you can and must do better. I'll give you a period of time to get the aircraft up to the desired quality. To be fair to Aerosoft this has only been released for one week. Go away Aerosoft Devs and come back when you are truly happen with your work and give us what we all want.

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Don't want to bash, but I am also very disappointed in the sound of twotter...just listen to other add-ons, like tbm hotstart or kingair from airfoillabs...with betarange and almost every detail...compared to those...the twotter sounds like a atari game...sorry

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7 hours ago, McDaniel said:

Don't want to bash, but I am also very disappointed in the sound of twotter...just listen to other add-ons, like tbm hotstart or kingair from airfoillabs...with betarange and almost every detail...compared to those...the twotter sounds like a atari game...sorry


Let’s all be honest with each other: the sounds are not good.
 

The patch helped a bit, but they’re by no means up to par.

 

I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say that they’re probably the worst out of any plane currently in MSFS, including the defaults, which for all their little oddities do have nice sounds.

 

I’m not gonna rant and rave or set Aerosoft any demands or ‘ultimatums’, what I simply want to know is: 

 

Is Aerosoft happy with these sounds; after the first patch, is this it now? Or is further work planned to improve the situation?

 

-René

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22 minutes ago, Wolfgang Ernst said:

suspect but don't want to believe it: Maybe the sound has been optimized for the Xbox (as discussed earlier) and is the way it should be there. Is it? Unbelievable.


As I stated above I’m not happy with the sounds either, but I don’t believe that’s the case.

 

This whole Xbox vs PC situation is not ideal, and Mathijs’ statements about this have only helped to fan those flames, but I don’t believe that’s applicable here. 
 

Happy to be proven wrong, but a sound mix is a sound mix, whether it plays on your PC, your XBox or your phone. It’s got nothing to do with performance optimisation or anything like that. 

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@TheInternetLad I wonder if the clicking you hear is the same as mine - which in my case is the prop lever tapping against the feather gate due to noise in my throttle quadrant HW.  I just move my prop levers a fraction, so that they're just off the gate, and the tapping/clicks stop.

 

wrt everything else on sounds - I'm in complete agreement with the sentiments in this thread - that the sound various volumes & lack of mixing are spoiling this aircraft.

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15 hours ago, Payt Laros said:

I agree..and it's such a shame,because the sounds are recorded very well.

 

The thing is that for the engine sounds (my main concern, but not the only one) need to go up and down in pitch as RPM goes up and down. I know this is possible in WWISE, because literally every other plane in MSFS does it. The only planes that don't are the Aerosoft ones. The CRJ exhibits the same issue.

 

So if you have, say. 5 recordings of the engine, you map them along the range of RPM. let's say you're idling, you have one sample for that, and as the rpm goes up, so does the PITCH (Frequency) of the sample, until that sample no longer accurately resembles the sound the engine makes for that RPM. As the pitch goes higher, you crossfade to the next sample, which needs to be tuned to the same pitch the previous sample left off..and on you go.

 

here's a nice demonstration of how that's supposed to work:

 

 

So this is a job done right. But whomever did the sound for the Twotter did get the transitions, but the PITCH doesn't change between each sample like it does in the example above. So you get this weird crossfade result, which sounds completely unnatural.

 

maybe the Aerosoft sound guy can ask this guy on youtube for some help.

 

 

 Cool stuff, in additional the PT6 is a free-turbine engine so they need to model the prop speed and the turbine speed seperately, as these can change independently, especially when the engine is under load.

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Hello,

 

I created an account to be able to express myself on this forum. I was looking forward to the update and I'm so disappointed.
I prefer the previous version. we distinguished the sounds better. you just had to lower the volume a bit and adjust the sounds and coordinate with the handle.

 

Until now I was flying with it but since this update, goodbye!

 

So sad....

 

I'm hoping for a modder who can fix this.

 

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20 hours ago, DaveTheSimGuy said:

I am here to agree with you, in comparison to Milviz's PC-6. The sounds still need work... BUT I think it is better than v 1.00. I do hear a difference after startup in feathered, and advancing props forward, in the prop noise. I have not done a proper flight yet (later tonight) to try feathering in a glide and back to full forward to see how the sound changes. Otherwise I tend to agree with your points.

 

Am I alone in thinking they may have turned down the sounds a bit too much now? I personally was fine with the high volume earlier. Anyone know if this is an easy thing to tweak by myself?

 

 

 

 

I believe that if you change this on your sounds.xml, it will tweak the cockpit sound insulation. It is at -45db now and you can try going for -10 or something. See if it helps.

 

<Parameter Name="Insulation_ExitClosed" Value="-45"/>

 

I am not sure if this is the only thing that affects the volume. I have no experience developing for msfs, so this is just a guess based on the wwise documentation asobo provides.

 

Make sure you backup the sounds.xml just in case. You can change parameters on Notepad.

 

Hope it helps.

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4 hours ago, Richard Askham said:

 Cool stuff, in additional the PT6 is a free-turbine engine so they need to model the prop speed and the turbine speed separately, as these can change independently, especially when the engine is under load.

 

I am not a MSFS developer and this is just a wild guess, but...

 

If you look at the sounds.XML file you can see that there are 4 sounds that are supposed play during combustion (loop when engine is running). There is also the JetWhine (not really sure what this is doing). They also have some specific events for zero thrust approach, reverse, feather, engine start, etc

 

The 4 sounds are that I believe are being mixed, one for engine, one for propeller, another one linked to the propeller beta (angle) and a last one the is related to the ground velocity (probably some wind sound or something like that, not sure)

 

If you watch these variables during the game, you can see that there is a big gap where the engines and propeller are increasing (way beyond idle), but the Prop beta angle is stick at 10 degrees. PROP BETA suddenly jumps up when the rpm is almost at 100% and this exactly where the mix gets weird. I believe that PROP BETA  is not working correctly and this is causing the weird sound transitions. Maybe the fix will be tweaking prop governor variables, or other engine Simvars. Or sounds could be linked to different engine variables. I don't know.

 

You can even try removing the PROP BETA lines from XLM and see how it sounds. It looses depth, but there are no sudden transitions and weird stuff anymore.

 

I really like the plane and been flying it a lot. It is definitely my favorite at this point, but I agree 100% with the comments about the sound. It needs to improve quite substantially to even get to the level we have with default planes. 

 

Just my 2 cents. As I said, I am not a MSFS dev. I am just curious.. If there's any devs here, let me know if these comments make any sense. I definitely don't know what I am doing. 

 

D

 

PS. If you are playing with the sounds.xml, make a backup first. You can edit those using notepad++ or just the regular notepad.

 

Screenshot 2022-01-26 085106.jpg

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So pissed off I ended up finding a mod in the depths of the internet who uses twin otter fsx yarns and it's just excellent!

 

You can hear the fuel injection, it follows the accelerator correctly, and even the reverse gear is well done.

 

Amazing to have to do this but it's ok now

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Hallo an alle User hier. Ich lese schon lange sehr interessiert mit und habe mich nun angemeldet, um meine Meinung zu äußern.

Die Vorfreude auf den Twin Otter war so groß.

Eine top Umsetzung, bis auf den Sound, der ist eigentlich blamabel. 

Das es besser geht, zeigt doch die Soundmod von  @zaki87https://de.flightsim.to/file/26712/aerosoft-twin-otter-soundmod-for-rpm-pitch-fix in Verbindung mit dem zusätzliches Soundpack für FSX aus dem simMarket. Hört euch den Sound mal auf youTube an. Ich finde ihn genial, bin allerdings nicht bereit, nochmal Geld in ein zusätzliches Soundpack zu stecken. Ich erwarte einfach, dass der Sound mit dem nächsten Update auf ähnlichem Niveau ist. So macht es mir jedenfalls keine richtige Freude.

Ich sehe es wie@Wolfgang Ernst. Die Veränderungen der Motorengeräusche sind äußerst wichtig. Eine schöne Optik reicht mir auch nicht.

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On 25.1.2022 at 20:47, Payt Laros sagte:

I agree..and it's such a shame,because the sounds are recorded very well.

 

The thing is that for the engine sounds (my main concern, but not the only one) need to go up and down in pitch as RPM goes up and down. I know this is possible in WWISE, because literally every other plane in MSFS does it. The only planes that don't are the Aerosoft ones. The CRJ exhibits the same issue.

 

So if you have, say. 5 recordings of the engine, you map them along the range of RPM. let's say you're idling, you have one sample for that, and as the rpm goes up, so does the PITCH (Frequency) of the sample, until that sample no longer accurately resembles the sound the engine makes for that RPM. As the pitch goes higher, you crossfade to the next sample, which needs to be tuned to the same pitch the previous sample left off..and on you go.

 

here's a nice demonstration of how that's supposed to work:

 

So this is a job done right. But whomever did the sound for the Twotter did get the transitions, but the PITCH doesn't change between each sample like it does in the example above. So you get this weird crossfade result, which sounds completely unnatural.

 

maybe the Aerosoft sound guy can ask this guy on youtube for some help.

 

 

 

Agreed 100% !! This is exactly what I wrote in another thread about the bad sound transitions before the fix. It's just the frequencies that didn't change at all with increasing engingne power, and that still don't even a Hz after the patch! And somehow I would have guessed that this main problem wouldn't be fixed at all in the announced fix. I've never ever attacked a developer for anything technical in detail, because I have no clue of programming, nor with designing. But as an experienced musician, the only thing I really got (even without an app like the one shown above) are the variables in the sound files of the aircraft (at least in FSX/P3d times). And so this is the first time that I really think the sound designer of this professional product has no clue what we're talking about if we're talking about PITCH / FREQUENCY change depending on engine power! ...as good as the samples might be. If yes, I'd like to know a single reason, why this was released like that (twice)?! Sorry, this is really unbelievable, at least if it won't be adressed anytime in future. After listening to a youtube video of the FIXED version, I saw my concerns confirmed. I won't buy this, at least not if the only words by Aerosoft will be that most of the customers would be happy with the sounds... or the the sounds were recorded by professionals from the real aircraft... that the loss of sound quality in youtube videos would be to blame... or anything else that just tries to "talk" the problem away.

 

@Payt Laros: Thanks, now after decades of trial and error with the numbers, I've learned that there is a program to visualize those variables and transitions.

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