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Mathijs Kok

Bell 205 Huey

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Guys, last time now. We got the info from several Huey pilots and instructors of the German army and they told us, a vortex ring state is nearly impossible in a Huey. Plus we tried this in a FTD and we weren't able to get into it. NO WAY.

Thats why we didn't implement it.

Those who "know it better" should first reconsider if they really know, or only THINK they do.

Of course it MIGHT be possible to get into a VRS even with a Huey under impossible circumstances, but if, HOW should we simulate this? The standard thing, Dodo for example did, would be by far exaggerated here and simply totally unrealistic.

Issue closed from my side. Nothing more to add here.

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Guys, last time now. We got the info from several Huey pilots and instructors of the German army and they told us, a vortex ring state is nearly impossible in a Huey. Plus we tried this in a FTD and we weren't able to get into it. NO WAY.

Thats why we didn't implement it.

Those who "know it better" should first reconsider if they really know, or only THINK they do.

Of course it MIGHT be possible to get into a VRS even with a Huey under impossible circumstances, but if, HOW should we simulate this? The standard thing, Dodo for example did, would be by far exaggerated here and simply totally unrealistic.

Issue closed from my side. Nothing more to add here.

As I said in my original message, Please do not feel offended, and I am not trying to knock your hard work. But I have personally been in a huey, in a very very drastic Vortex Ring State (it was a combination of high density altitude, high aircraft weight, low airspeed, steep descent, and possibly a tailwind on approach to a mountaintop LZ, the pilot managed to get the ship turned away from the mountainside as we descended on an elevator ride to hell. The correct reovery procedures were initiated and we recovered, but I am pretty sure several persons on board had to change their shorts). A discussion was had afterward and several explanations of the event were suggested, the two most reasonable being a severe downdraft, and Vortex Ring. The pilot said he was SURE it was Vortex Ring because the problem worsened as he applied collective. The airframe rattled pretty violently as portions of the rotorblade still getting clean air disagreed with the portions that were not, and I watched the VSI just about peg itself at the bottom.

In any case, I DONT CARE if you don't include it. I am fine with that fact as I have no intention of trying to simulate it anyway. Just please don't tell me that it's not possible. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS!

And as far as the other stuff I mentioned, I totally understand that not EVERYTHING is reasonably simulated in an efficient amount of time, and I personally don't wish to wait any longer for your huey. I would be a VERY happy camper if I could download it RIGHT NOW! I am not trying to trash your product. Just PLEASE don't tell me something I KNOW is not true. If you had stated in your manual: "Vortex Ring State is NOT included because there is an extremely low chance of occurance and is not worth the effort to simulate." or something similar, we would not be having this discussion.

Also, as I said before. I am still happily buying your product, and I am quite sure it will be wonderful. Thanks for all your hard work. As you have said the discussion is over from your side, I will not expect a reply. I think we have both said our piece.

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On to the next topic: Do you guys have a tentative DIGITAL release date? Or are you planning on releasing the Box set first? I want to get whatever will be available the soonest.

Thanks.

Scott

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If you had stated in your manual: "Vortex Ring State is NOT included because there is an extremely low chance of occurance and is not worth the effort to simulate." or something similar, we would not be having this discussion.

Read Joachim's comment again, he said nearly impossible.

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As I said in my original message, Please do not feel offended, and I am not trying to knock your hard work. But I have personally been in a huey, in a very very drastic Vortex Ring State (it was a combination of high density altitude, high aircraft weight, low airspeed, steep descent, and possibly a tailwind on approach to a mountaintop LZ, the pilot managed to get the ship turned away from the mountainside as we descended on an elevator ride to hell. The correct reovery procedures were initiated and we recovered, but I am pretty sure several persons on board had to change their shorts). A discussion was had afterward and several explanations of the event were suggested, the two most reasonable being a severe downdraft, and Vortex Ring. The pilot said he was SURE it was Vortex Ring because the problem worsened as he applied collective. The airframe rattled pretty violently as portions of the rotorblade still getting clean air disagreed with the portions that were not, and I watched the VSI just about peg itself at the bottom.

In any case, I DONT CARE if you don't include it. I am fine with that fact as I have no intention of trying to simulate it anyway. Just please don't tell me that it's not possible. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS!

And as far as the other stuff I mentioned, I totally understand that not EVERYTHING is reasonably simulated in an efficient amount of time, and I personally don't wish to wait any longer for your huey. I would be a VERY happy camper if I could download it RIGHT NOW! I am not trying to trash your product. Just PLEASE don't tell me something I KNOW is not true. If you had stated in your manual: "Vortex Ring State is NOT included because there is an extremely low chance of occurance and is not worth the effort to simulate." or something similar, we would not be having this discussion.

Also, as I said before. I am still happily buying your product, and I am quite sure it will be wonderful. Thanks for all your hard work. As you have said the discussion is over from your side, I will not expect a reply. I think we have both said our piece.

And last comment from me...

This is a quote from on of my earlier posts in this thread:

..a bunch of German Bundeswehr pilots flying the real thing every day ;)

We are not saying tha VRS can´t happen, just that it i so hard to get there that simulating it makes little sense.

Sometimes developers tend to "oversimulate" features inorder to please customers expectations, though the outcome is wrong - we do not :)

Finn

We never said it was impossible - just unlikely to happen.

End of VRS discussion

Finn

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The download will be released first as usual.

IF everything does well, and there will not pop up a HUGHE bug, release will be on wednesday.

Had a longer flight with it just before I looked into the bord now. You will be able to operate it according to the real checklist. All important systems work exactly as in the real Chopper. Instruments, warnings, electrial system. You even see the airspeed indicator needle shake when transition lift sets it.

The dark cockpit gives you a very good "beeing there feeling" and the sound is loud and Hueyish :D

It is really great fun to fly.

Best regards, Joachim

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The download will be released first as usual.

... release will be on wednesday.

Mr. Joachim Schweigler,

Well I glad to see this is day has finally arrived... After all the postponements and delays, on this and several other projects, I was beginning to wonder if I would ever get my next Bulk Order filled.:blush: Thank you and do please post a video/screenshots on/after is release. :wub:

Thank you very much.

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One quest, do the huey have a start procedur or is it strg+E (ctrl+E)?

I like the Dodo 206 one very much. VRS is a gimmik for me, a start procedur nearly a must have. For all Huey drivers this tip. If the flight model isn´t realistic for you, try HTR (helicopter total realism) from hovercontrol.com ;)

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One quest, do the huey have a start procedur or is it strg+E (ctrl+E)?

2 posts above yours.

You will be able to operate it according to the real checklist. All important systems work exactly as in the real Chopper. Instruments, warnings, electrical system.

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Sorry for probably being the cause for the VRS discussion. It was not meant to criticize negatively your work, it was a constructive/corrective critic. Finn and Bruce Hamilton, if you read a few posts above you will see why me and nightsta1ker brought the subject about VRS. It was not because of Joachim said, it was because of this statement; "Please note that vortex ring state (VRS) is NOT included because the Huey does not suffer from this dangerous condition."

We were just saying that the phrase "does not suffer" should be replaced by something less radical.

End of the VRS discussion for me.

Question, is the sound dynamic? Meaning, do we have changes of RPM sound and blade slap, etc? And also, how is the start up simulated?

Good news that will be released on Wednesday! :P Can't wait.

Regards and continue the great work.

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Sound is a bit dynamic. You'll hear N1 RPM changing if you apply collective, but you'll not hear blade slaps in special flight situations.

Startup can be done like in the real thing. The only negative point is, that it runs up far too fast. This is a FSX bug, and there is no way around this, except the way, Dodo went. But this would mean doing EVENRYTHING oun our own. Sounds instruments, controll limitation. -No way if you don't want to pay a much higher price.

A strange point for most simmers will be the starter button. It is a trigger on the lower side of the collective lever, wich you can only feel, not see. But how to make a clickspot to something invisible?

I decided to lay an invisible clickspot onto the collective lever shaft right below the head. This works very well.

Bests Joachim

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Sound is a bit dynamic. You'll hear N1 RPM changing if you apply collective, but you'll not hear blade slaps in special flight situations.

Hi,

If I'm not mistaken, helicopter rotorblades tend to make a slapping noise in descent, a very nice feature on the dodo, is that not included then?

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...A strange point for most simmers will be the starter button. It is a trigger on the lower side of the collective lever, wich you can only feel, not see. But how to make a clickspot to something invisible?

I decided to lay an invisible clickspot onto the collective lever shaft right below the head. This works very well....

Mr. Joachim Schweigler,

If its NOT too late to ask, can you make that button assignable/mapable to a joystick button/keyboard function key combination?

I use the SIMAVIATIK AG - PITCH LEVER HELICOPTER PLUG AND PLAY( http://secure.simmar...-and-play.phtml ) and would like to be able to assign it to the starter button on this control. Thank you.:D

17305_KollMitBeschreibung_thumb.JPG

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Mr. Joachim Schweigler,

If its NOT too late to ask, can you make that button assignable/mapable to a joystick button/keyboard function key combination?

I use the SIMAVIATIK AG - PITCH LEVER HELICOPTER PLUG AND PLAY( http://secure.simmar...-and-play.phtml ) and would like to be able to assign it to the starter button on this control. Thank you.:D

17305_KollMitBeschreibung_thumb.JPG

For such things You can use FSUIPC with some Lua scripts.

Problem ist that alot of the stuff in the Huey is custom coded to achieve enhanced realism. This means that some standard FSX key assignments won´t work.

It´s hard to keep 100% to FSX SDK if You want to do something special. So You need to decide between added realism, wich is not obtainable with standard FSX commands, or bypassing FSX commands and make Your own and hopefully more realistic features, but loose some compability with standard FSX key and axis assignments.

Finn

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Hi,

If I'm not mistaken, helicopter rotorblades tend to make a slapping noise in descent, a very nice feature on the dodo, is that not included then?

no, sorry

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Joachim,

Think the Huey looks like lots of fun!! Once my bank balance is restored from Christmas I shall look at making a purchase. I'm not very good at flying the Helicopters in FSX so I'm hoping this will be one I can practice on!!!!

David

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Wednesday huh?

Well, I know what I'm going to do on Wednesday!! :D

And yes, it involves the Aerosoft website lol

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Hi Tim,

thank´s for that usefull link, that might help to understand all the technical background of the huey!

Regards from ETHB

Thomas

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For such things You can use FSUIPC with some Lua scripts....

Mr. Finn,

As long as there is either a function key that can be used to trigger that event or a method (.XML) that I can acquire from Aerosoft, than I'm sure that I could implement it; but I was hoping that I don't have to do that for every Aerosoft aircraft product. :blush:

But, thank you for letting me know and I'm sure that I'll figure it all out when the time is right.:D

Thank you very much.

=========================

Mr. J.Schweigler,

Still looking forward to Screenshot(s)/video(s) before/after its release. :)

=========================

PS:

Thanks for the Army Manuals, Mr. Tim "sar71" :D

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Will the rotor brake be simulated?

Yes as good as FSX allows.

Finn

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