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Sounds are still not acceptable for a payware product!


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FYI for the folks here wanting to use the payware TSS sounds, (~$10, worth it IMO after seeing @zaki87 incredible sound.xml and layout.json tweaks) know that it will not work with the MSFS Marketplace version due to their locked and uneditable layout.json.  I bought the pack and tried using the mod.  When it the marketplace .json is edited, the twin otter will disappear from the aircraft list.  I can't confirm if the AS 1.0.1 version works correctly with it or not. . .but please be aware before spending on the sound pack.  

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25 minutes ago, CuzDawg3 said:

FYI for the folks here wanting to use the payware TSS sounds, (~$10, worth it IMO after seeing @zaki87 incredible sound.xml and layout.json tweaks) know that it will not work with the MSFS Marketplace version due to their locked and uneditable layout.json.  I bought the pack and tried using the mod.  When it the marketplace .json is edited, the twin otter will disappear from the aircraft list.  I can't confirm if the AS 1.0.1 version works correctly with it or not. . .but please be aware before spending on the sound pack.  

I bought it, and it works fine with the update, well worth it in my opinion. ( I had been a bit happier with the new update sounds, but the more i flew it, i started noticing issues again.) It's a shame this has happened because it's a beautiful plane, and the flight model is fantastic, now the sounds sorted i'm very happy.

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1 hour ago, BudSpencer said:

 

Agreed 100% !! This is exactly what I wrote in another thread about the bad sound transitions before the fix. It's just the frequencies that didn't change at all with increasing engingne power, and that still don't even a Hz after the patch! And somehow I would have guessed that this main problem wouldn't be fixed at all in the announced fix. I've never ever attacked a developer for anything technical in detail, because I have no clue of programming, nor with designing. But as an experienced musician, the only thing I really got (even without an app like the one shown above) are the variables in the sound files of the aircraft (at least in FSX/P3d times). And so this is the first time that I really think the sound designer of this professional product has no clue what we're talking about if we're talking about PITCH / FREQUENCY change depending on engine power! ...as good as the samples might be. If yes, I'd like to know a single reason, why this was released like that (twice)?! Sorry, this is really unbelievable, at least if it won't be adressed anytime in future. After listening to a youtube video of the FIXED version, I saw my concerns confirmed. I won't buy this, at least not if the only words by Aerosoft will be that most of the customers would be happy with the sounds... or the the sounds were recorded by professionals from the real aircraft... that the loss of sound quality in youtube videos would be to blame... or anything else that just tries to "talk" the problem away.

 

@Payt Laros: Thanks, now after decades of trial and error with the numbers, I've learned that there is a program to visualize those variables and transitions.

 

I posted some findings, earlier today, on this thread. This may give some clue on what is going on. Wondering if someone else could try the original sound.xml edit I mentioned. It sound pretty similar to the mod using the purchased sounds, but it is hard to tell without comparing directly, instead of youtube videos.

 

Basically remove PROP BETA variable from engine 1 and 2 preset. You can just delete the line where they are on the beginning of the DOC. This fixes the issue with the sudden changes on the sound. Sound looses some depth and presence, but may be the same for the mod.

 

It is free and easy to test. Change may be enough for most people and would avoid extra money spent.

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Quick PSA: the gentleman who re-wrote the XML and JSON files needed to make the TSS soundpack work has stated on his flightsim.to page that he will no longer be updating those files. I am assuming that means that these pay-for sounds may not work without some coding once Aerosoft releases its next patch. I suppose it's buyer beware, as usual.

 

Not that it matters, but from my perspective Aerosoft has a responsibility to fix the sounds on this plane. I wouldn't have a problem spending an additional $10 (or whatever) on sounds if I thought the included sounds lacked bass or something else particular to my ear but as it stands now their sounds fundamentally don't work properly so I won't spend money trying to fix their problem.

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5 minutes ago, CuzDawg3 said:

I have the marketplace version.  Link to your post?  I'll try anything at this point.  

 

I posted on this same thread, a few hours ago. 

 

Can you edit files on the marketplace version? Not sure.

 

If you can, you will need to find sound.xml on the installation folder. Should be under simobjects - ariplanes - AS-Aircraft_DHC6_Common - sound.

 

you can edit using notepad

 

D

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21 minutes ago, scoobyx said:

Quick PSA: the gentleman who re-wrote the XML and JSON files needed to make the TSS soundpack work has stated on his flightsim.to page that he will no longer be updating those files

Based on my quick edits of XMLs and .JSONs in the past, it doesn't seem like he should need to update them ever.  He only provided a link (xml and .json) that points to the TSS sound files.  The XML calls out the sound.cfg and .wavs and the layout.json has the added files in the folder structure.  He didn't edit any sound files.  Assuming I get past my marketplace jam, I don't mind making a simple guide of what to tweak when formal updates come along. . .unless it becomes overbearing.  

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8 minutes ago, CuzDawg3 said:

Based on my quick edits of XMLs and .JSONs in the past, it doesn't seem like he should need to update them ever.  He only provided a link (xml and .json) that points to the TSS sound files.  The XML calls out the sound.cfg and .wavs and the layout.json has the added files in the folder structure.  He didn't edit any sound files.  Assuming I get past my marketplace jam, I don't mind making a simple guide of what to tweak when formal updates come along. . .unless it becomes overbearing.  

. . .and I forgot that the marketplace version doesn't have a sound.xml file.  Carry on everyone else.  *facepalm*

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1 hour ago, CuzDawg3 said:

I assume you are not using the marketplace version?

Correct, i always buy direct as you can wait ages for updates. Also market place files are encrypted.

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6 minutes ago, Car147 said:

Correct, i always buy direct as you can wait ages for updates. Also market place files are encrypted.

I have stock planes and purchased on Microsoft that have flight models available. It's the supllier that chooses to encrypt.

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On 1/25/2022 at 1:47 PM, Payt Laros said:

I agree..and it's such a shame,because the sounds are recorded very well.

...

The thing is that for the engine sounds (my main concern, but not the only one) need to go up and down in pitch as RPM goes up and down.

...

here's a nice demonstration of how that's supposed to work:

 

+1 to this. That's a bit of the tragedy here and why it's so frustrating: it's an oversight that is obvious to everyone that uses the plane and the fix is relatively simple. It's painful to see 99% of the good effort put into the sound samples get overshadowed by simply not completing the last 1% of the implementation.

 

Aerosoft: specifically acknowledging the pitch / RPM issue and the video that Payt Laros posted in this thread would go a long way towards reassuring your customers that you understand the issue. 

 

Much appreciated...

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I truly hope that Aerosoft ends up fixing the sound for the twotter, as well as the CRJ.

 

But does it seem likely? From what I've seen the thing that counts the most to Matthijs is whether most people who buy Aerosoft products are happy enough with the product in general. The few people here who are concerned about the sounds might just be a small clique of nerds who don't represent the average buyer of MSFS plugins. My impression is that Mathhijs seems to be relying on the feedback he gets from people he trusts, and as long as they sing his tune, we may just be a few oddballs who don't know what we're talking about in the first place, since we've probably never been on a real twin otter..so how would we know eh?

 

I hope I'm wrong of course. But what we have here is a sound guy who doesn't know how to implement the  engine recordings that were made/licensed. They were recorded correctly. it seems, and by themselves they sound wonderful. It's the programming part that's lacking, and it's proven rather difficult to communicate what exactly is wrong. I mean I know exactly what's wrong, but the communication falls on deaf/non-comprehending ears. 

 

So he did try his best to smooth out the sounds, and in some way he succeeded as well. The transitions are smoother, but the crucial bit is still missing, which is the changes in PITCH. It's like somebody gives you a black and white  grainy photo of a rainbow, and then telling this person that what you need to accurately represent the rainbow is COLOR..and then the person smooths out the grainyness of the photo, but it's still black and white.

 

As it stands I don't see how the fix could happen. Matthijs doesn't seem to understand what we're talking about, and the sound guy seems incapable of implementing the right changes. Still they better get it right at some point. The first thing I'll be looking for in any new Aerosoft release is the sound implementation, and as long as they keep getting it wrong..well that's one less customer for them.

 

 

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@Payt Laros not sure if you saw Mathijs' post from earlier this morning but it sounds like they are in the process of an entire re-work on the engine sounds. I wasn't sure if (or how) I could quote across forums so here's the link:

 

 

This sounds like very good / promising news. I am excited to see what they can come up with and will withhold judgment until they release the patch that includes the new sounds.

 

I really like this plane and while there are some little bits and bobs I wish worked a little closer to real-life, I think it's a great platform and one I will use a lot. I am pulling for these guys to make this a "must have" for MSFS.

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+1 to this. Engine sounds still a disappointment, and I won't pay a dime for a sound mod when one can expect reasonable good sounds from a payware A/C, imho.

Entering Aerosoft holding-pattern to see if they solve this.

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Maybe Aerosoft can have a lil collab with the Simworks Studios sound engineers to do the sounds for the Twin Otter? Just wishful thinking on my part. I don't know how they did it but Simworks killed that Kodiak sound package. I literally get excited every time I load up the Kodiak because I know the sounds that are coming and the immersion gonna be GOOOOOD! It's literally the sickest most bada##  thing I've heard in a sim for a long time. I been simming since FS98. I bought the Twin Otter hoping for the same experience. I enjoy flying it a heckuva lot but ofc, it has the obvious shortcoming with the sound set. I'm very optimistic to see what comes now with the new round of sound recordings and the final product. I'm rooting for you, Aerosoft! 

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I think the same that you @Aeromaestro. Enchanted with the sounds of the Kodiak. I'll be patient with Aerosoft waiting for them to improve the sounds. If not, unfortunately I'm afraid it will be the last thing I buy from them because I thought it would have the same quality sounds as the Kodiak. I will have patience.

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4 hours ago, scoobyx said:

@Payt Laros not sure if you saw Mathijs' post from earlier this morning but it sounds like they are in the process of an entire re-work on the engine sounds. I wasn't sure if (or how) I could quote across forums so here's the link:

 

 

 

The challenge with this response is that it leaves open the possibility that Mathijs still doesn't understand what the majority of people are asking for. The worse case scenario is that they invest in rerecording or licensing a different sound set, and STILL forget to properly configure the samples in WWise so that the pitch changes with throttle input. They can rerecord the sound set all they want, no sound set or wave file will change pitch up and down proportional to throttle unless it is correctly implemented. 

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vor 2 Stunden , Enright sagte:

 

The challenge with this response is that it leaves open the possibility that Mathijs still doesn't understand what the majority of people are asking for. The worse case scenario is that they invest in rerecording or licensing a different sound set, and STILL forget to properly configure the samples in WWise so that the pitch changes with throttle input. They can rerecord the sound set all they want, no sound set or wave file will change pitch up and down proportional to throttle unless it is correctly implemented. 

 

I fear exactly the same. Why? Because it is beyond me how a further improvement wouldn't be possible with the current recordings??! Unless someone has coded the whole sound, protected it with a password and then immediately left Aerosoft, so that no other person there has any more access to the sound files (I don't think that's the case), I see no reason why the current sound set couldn't be improved in the simple matter of enabeling the tone pitch to go up and down, like any person who can open the config file should be able to. Obviously someone at Flightsim.to already did a makeshift mod for it. So, the developer himself should be able to access his own files as well^^ I appreciate their approach to rework the whole sound (even if I think some small mods at the right place would be enough), but I'm not too confident with the upcoming result.

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Have to agree. The sounds are just not what I'd expect from a €30+ aircraft. Having said that, they have improved with the update, but they're still not there yet. My main issue is with the sudden volume changes, rather than a gradual fade in/out. Aerosoft have never let me down before, so I'm willing to wait and see will they further address the issue.

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