Toolbar Pushback SU15 Issues

[WoDi 23]

Vers. 1.0.3 has not brought any improvement. As before Fenix spinning, A320neo V2 spinning, Headwind spinning.

 

Best regards

Dieter

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Hi Tom - just asking if you think you are any closer to fixing this for me too ?Cheers.

[chunsajihuni 8]

I also updated to 1.03 but still have problems with planned pushbacks. It was Fenix 320.

[Tom 457]

Hi all,

 

We appreciate all the details provided so far. We're sorry that the latest version hasn't fixed all the issues. It looks like the spinning issue could be remaining only on certain systems, as the developer cannot reproduce the issue on his side, along with a few of our testers.

 

As such, we need as much information as possible to try and resolve this issue. If you already have a ticket open regarding issues with Toolbar Pushback, you should have received some questions there to help us further diagnose the issue. PC Users: If you haven't created a ticket, you can still help us debug this issue further by answering the following questions with either one of the methods below, which we'd really appreciate. If you've already provided details in this thread, feel free to provide any other information you think might be relevant:
 

Method 1:

1. Open Microsoft Flight Simulator and from the main menu go to Options > General > Experimental. Click on “Create a Report”.
2. Additionally provide the following answers: 
   Spoiler

   1. Where does this issue occur? (All airports/specific airports - If specific airports, please let us know which)
   2. Aircraft (Developer and version number where applicable)
   3. A screenshot or video of the planned pushback route
   4. Your Windows Version
   5. List of Flight Simulator peripherals connected
   6. If GSX is installed, the GSX version number (This can be found within the FSDT Installer)
   7. Are you running any other addons during pushback (FSRealistic, etc)
   8. Does the spinning happen each pushback?
   9. Do you have any custom Toolbar Pushback aircraft profiles installed?
3. Drop us a ticket with the report and question answers here.

 

Method 2:

 

You can drop the following answers in this thread:

• Where does this issue occur? (All airports/specific airports - If specific airports, please let us know which)
• Aircraft (Developer and version number where applicable)
• A screenshot or video of the planned pushback route
• Microsoft Flight Simulator version (Press ALT + Enter to enter windowed mode - The version number will be displayed in the top left)
• Your Windows Version
• Your MSFS screen setup (Resolution, and amount of monitors)
• Are you using VR?
• List of Flight Simulator peripherals connected
• If GSX is installed, the GSX version number (This can be found within the FSDT Installer)
• Are you running any other addons during pushback (FSRealistic, etc)
• Does the spinning happen each pushback?
• Do you have any custom Toolbar Pushback aircraft profiles installed?

We really appreciate anyone taking the time to do this.

 

 

[chunsajihuni 8]

Thank you for your hard work.
However, unless it is a problem that only appears to one or two users, I think AS should come up with a clear product.
Of course, a lot of data is needed, but I don't see why an ordinary user would need to make a report like that. We are users, not developers, much less beta testers. We are customers.
I appreciate your hard work, but this seems like a problem you should look into and fix, not something you should ask your customers to do.
I cause problems on every aircraft and at every airport.
There is no problem with manual pushback, but I did not purchase this app to do manual pushback. This is possible with free add-ons and even with the free version of this product. I also used the free version, but it didn't work after SU15, so I bought this product.
I own many AS products, but this one is very disappointing.
We are customers and we deserve the right products.
I think it is wrong to say that there are no problems just because it works well in your laboratory.
Although other users are not posting here, many users  are also suffering from the same problem.
This is not a problem for each user. It's a product problem.
Which part is causing the problem is up to you to resolve.

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Hello Tom, and anyone else who is interested. Had I not seen the post above from chunsajihuni, I think I would written much the same in reply. I'm not sure how much energy I can put into this as I now find it hugely frustrating. I most certainly am unable to take time out again to document each and every stage of the problem which kicked in for me within seconds of downloading Sim update 15. Absolutely nothing else has changed, and the rest of my Sim works just fine. I would ask aerosoft support to show me how to remove this program so that I can use the ambitious pilots free download available to us all in flightsim.to

 

I don't want to point fingers as I simply don't know where the problem lies or who has the ability to fix it. I've tried far above more than I'm prepared to and keep poking at the problem in the vain hope of getting lucky. So Tom, can you please advise how I remove this push-back pro from my sim and maybe put it on the shelf until and unless maybe even for when FS 2024 comes along which will necessitate a full reload, maybe I'll get lucky then. In the meantime however the flightsim.to was working before I upgraded to the pro version so hopefully it will still be able to help me in the meantime. Kind regards as always and I too most certainly welcome your effort, and of course your continued support

[Tom 457]

8 hours ago, chunsajihuni said:

Thank you for your hard work.
However, unless it is a problem that only appears to one or two users, I think AS should come up with a clear product.
Of course, a lot of data is needed, but I don't see why an ordinary user would need to make a report like that. We are users, not developers, much less beta testers. We are customers.
I appreciate your hard work, but this seems like a problem you should look into and fix, not something you should ask your customers to do.
I cause problems on every aircraft and at every airport.
There is no problem with manual pushback, but I did not purchase this app to do manual pushback. This is possible with free add-ons and even with the free version of this product. I also used the free version, but it didn't work after SU15, so I bought this product.
I own many AS products, but this one is very disappointing.
We are customers and we deserve the right products.
I think it is wrong to say that there are no problems just because it works well in your laboratory.
Although other users are not posting here, many users  are also suffering from the same problem.
This is not a problem for each user. It's a product problem.
Which part is causing the problem is up to you to resolve.

Appreciate your comment - I'll try to clarify some more, as your concerns are totally valid.

 

We're fully aware we're asking for a lot of data here, it's pretty similar to the same data you'd be asked for if contacting MSFS support. The reason why we need this data is to figure out what the issue actually is. While this is of course happening to more than just one or two users, from a quick check we've in total received less than 35-40 unique user reports about this issue across both the forum and tickets. This is a very low amount of users in the grand scheme of those using the addon. While this won't account for everyone with issues, as some won't always report issues immediately, the overall number of people with issues is extremely low. We've heard back from far less after the latest build release, too. 

 

What's interesting about this issue is that those that are having it all seem to have it in slightly different ways. For some customers, this is only effecting one or two aircraft with certain types of pushback, while in other cases it can occur on all aircraft with all pushbacks. It's quite likely that there's some kind of link between all the systems effected, which is causing the issue. Whether that be another addon that's interfering, a specific version of the aircraft used, or even an underlying MSFS issue that's only effecting certain systems - We're just not sure yet. That's a link we need to discover so we can work on a fix, but as none of us can reproduce the issue in house and the issue doesn't seem too widespread, we need to gather that data from users that do have the issue.  

 

Using the data provided can attempt to find a link between all those systems. Once we do, we'll of course work on a fix as soon as possible. 

[JayD 3]

Latest version 1.0.3 still not working for me. Tug drives me in circles and ess turns (win11, PMDG 737, IniA300, all airports, No GSX, yes to FSRealistic, Spad, FSLTL, BATC)

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Hi Tom, can you kindly repeat some of the precise detailing you would like and I will now endeavour when time permits to try and add to the already added data from myself and others regarding this problem. I am aware that this issue is only highlighted in this thread by maybe a handful of people suffering from the problem, but that doesn't take away the countless others that maybe who don't report similar issues. I also understand that probably Aerosoft being the large organisation that it is, are possibly unable to allocate too many resources to this one issue while concentrating on much bigger projects, that's the reality as I see it anyway. I would also ask again if you can tell me how to completely remove this pro version so that I can try and fall back on the ambitiouspilots free to download which will get me halfway back to where I was before your program was released. Your help here would be much appreciated and I'm becoming ever more resigned to having to wait to see what pans out in the fullness of time. And as I have mentioned before, the my gut feeling is that a for reload for me is going to be not only flight Sim FS2024 but also a clean install of whatever operating system Microsoft have running later this year. They too seem to be in all sorts of trouble with their software at the moment not really knowing themselves what they want and certainly not listening to what the public want - but that's for another forum, cheers Tom

[pedrovazua 0]

Hi, it is not working for me either. In the case of the Fenix 320 and for programmed pushback procedures, once I click into connect the truck, the pushback truck will connect to the aircraft, it will lift the nose wheel and then it will stay there for ages and nothing happens so I cannot push the start pushback. Very strange!!

[Guest]

I updated the Toolbar Pushback Pro to 1.0.3 on Xbox Series X. Unfortunately, the update does absolutely nothing to fix the pushback issues.

 

I tested the aircraft that have not been working for me with the tool, with the following results:

 

• Boeing 787-10 (Asobo/Working Title): NOT WORKING
• Boeing 787-8 (BravoAirspace): NOT WORKING
• Boeing 747-8i (Asobo/Working Title): NOT WORKING

The problem is the same as before: as soon as the planned pushback starts, the pushback tug and the plane immediately start oscillating left and right, resulting in ever greater deviation from the pushback route. If the planned pushback is short and contains only one turn then it might work in some lucky cases, but it still takes much longer and looks wholly unrealistic. If the planned pushback is longer or contains multiple turns then it just results in spinning, because the left-right deviation gets bigger and bigger with every back and forth swing.

 

Some additional information as asked:

 

• This occurs at both generic and third-party airports. No ICAO code needed, it occurs everywhere, 100% of the time.
• Aircraft listed above.
• Microsoft Flight Simulator version: 1.37.19.0
• Xbox Series X, therefore: no VR, no Windows, no GSX, no other "enhancement" add-ons installed
• No peripherals. Only the default Xbox controller.
• Yes, the oscillation and spinning happens at every pushback with the aircraft listed above.
• No custom Toolbar Pushback aircraft profiles (I don't know if they're even possible on Xbox).

 

Additional notes:

 

• Smaller aircraft do work. The Airbus A320 family, for example, are pushed back as intended with no oscillation. This include the recently released iniBuilds A320neo "v2" as well. I even tested with other third-party addons, like the F-35 from IndiaFoxtEcho or even the Global Hawk drone by Heaven Designs, as well as different GA planes (Kodiak, SR22). Anything with a smaller size is pushed back normally. But the big widebody planes are not.
• I tried altering the pushback speed, from 4 kts to 2 kts. It makes no difference.

 

This tool has one job and it can't do it reliably. Very disappointing.

[AndreNL 0]

Same problem here.

Btw, this problem already popped up before SU15 and also with the original freeware Toolbar Pushback.

 

It seems to me that with Preplanned Pushback, the Rudder input, which you can use to steer with Manual Pushback,  is still being taken into account.

This means that if the Rudder Axis isn't perfectly centered, this strange behaviour starts occurring. Just my two cents.

 

Too bad this Tool is totally useless in its current state.

 

Andre

 

 

[gimbalaxis 3]

On Xbox X, MSFS v1.37.19.0 Premium Deluxe (no game pass), all World and City Updates installed.

 

The Manual pushback works for me at all times.

 

The Planned pushback does NOT work EVER. I fly the default planes: 787-10, 747-8, A320neo v2, A310, Longitude, C172, DA62. I always start in cold and dark state at a parking spot. Have tried at: CYTZ, CYYZ, CYVR, KLAS, KLAX, KLGA, KJFK, OMDB, WSSS, EGLL, RJTT, YSSY. 

 

With respect, it seems anyone using Pushback Toolbar Pro on Xbox X has the "spinning" S-curve issue when using Planned Pushback, it should not be hard to discover it.

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

There are some good and interesting replies here but nothing really jumps out that would pinpoint the problem. I have spent much of the day taking everything out of my community folder and reloading with only the Fenix A320, the FS2Crew option, and nothing else. I re-downloaded the push-back pro and within 50mtrs on the first push-back the problem came back. I then loaded each and every airliner in the Microsoft default library and they will do exactly the same. I have asked kindly, 3 times now and hope someone can show me the directory where the files are stored for the push-back pro so that I might remove it and reload with the ambitious pilots free download to see if that makes any difference. An interesting comment above from AndreNL and as I am now really running out of ideas I will give that a try tomorrow and report in due course. I can't recall any issues I've had with FS2020 since I downloaded it nearly 2 years ago, but this one has me stumped and I will not let go until it's fixed. I have given some thought that maybe a corrupt file in the FS2020.exe file may be the culprit and I'm still pondering whether or not to do a full reload of the Sim - happy days one and all !

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

@ gimbalaxis ; can I kindly ask exactly what is the  manual push-back you are using with success. Is it the push-back pro system or something else, cheers

[gimbalaxis 3]

10 hours ago, Captain_Pugwash said:

@ gimbalaxis ; can I kindly ask exactly what is the  manual push-back you are using with success. Is it the push-back pro system or something else, cheers

Hi, yes, on Xbox X, the "Toolbar Pushback Pro" offers 2 methods: Manual, or Planned Pushback.

 

I am able to use the Toobar Pushback Pro's Manual Pushback with any plane - it will turn properly when I manually adjust the on-screen slider to to turn, and it will speed up or slow down obeying the speed slider. TPP Manual Pushback works for me on Xbox X.

 

But the Planned Pushback results in crazy S-curves. Today on Xbox X, I received a v1.0.3 update via the Marketplace and installed it. But the behaviour is the same S-curves for me. I just tested the Asobo 787-10 at OMDB.

 

Here are 3 screen shots, the final one is an s-curve in the wrong direction:

 

Version 1.0.3 using Asobo 787-10 at OMDB Dubai

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Plan a 90 degree pushback

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S-curves all over the place (this is wrong direction)

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[gimbalaxis 3]

PS, I can't seem to participate in the Poll at the top of this thread. How do I vote, there is no button to click visible for me.

[Tom 457]

3 hours ago, gimbalaxis said:

PS, I can't seem to participate in the Poll at the top of this thread. How do I vote, there is no button to click visible for me.

The poll was closed prior to the latest patch, as we had collected all the results needed at the time. Right now, we're working off of different provided information.

 

--

 

Just to provide a quick update In terms of this issue, we've looked at all the logs and aren't finding an obvious cause of the issue on the systems effected yet. Though as this seems to be happening across both PC and Xbox, it's unlikely it's a platform specific issue. I'll be spending most of today tinkering with the sim to see if I can reproduce the issue (with the help of the previously provided logs).

 

A quick note: We've noticed a couple of people had both the freeware and paid version of the tool installed. Please make sure you only have either the freeware or payware version installed, as a double installation will cause issues.

 

Those of you on PC using Steam can also try deleting the "aerosoft-toolbar-pushback" found in "%appdata%\Microsoft Flight Simulator\Packages", which will force the WASM files to recompile. If this fixes the issue for you, please let us know.

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Quick note Tom. Mine is certainly your Pro version. When this was downloaded it worked just fine UNTIL Sim update 15, only then did it start the dance of the 7 veils on pushback. @ gimbalaxis, thanks for the update and I too can get by with the pushback in the manual mode and have also been using the pushback helper from Flightsim.to

 

Please login to display this image.

 

 

 

This whole project is really starting to gnaw at me now, especially after spending so much of yesterday emptying the community folder and re-shuffle some files.

 

Please keep up your interest Tom in us few - and of course your good work n thanks

[BrySkye 0]

I hadn't reported the issue previously because some had already done so here and a patch was already announced, so I just waited rather than make a (new) account, because it will have been over 10 years since I was last active. 
But saying as the patch doesn't really seem to have addressed the issues, here I am, saying as it happened today on-stream.

Xbox Series X version, so I can say current Sim version 1.37.19.0
This was in the current version of the Inibuilds A300-600 at default (premium deluxe) KSFO.
Here's a clip of the planning screen
https://clips.twitch.tv/BigDignifiedDinosaurCharlietheUnicorn-67JJanOteZJWNczY
and a timestamped link to the actual pushback, where it just snaked and wriggled around
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2182215680?t=00h41m32s
(I would actually apologise for being a little overly snippy and negative at the time. I was trying to squeeze the stream into a quite limited time frame before an event started, and the first attempt at a planned pushback actually lead to the game saying I had overstressed the airframe. Not hit something, overstressed specifically. So had to restart the flight, really pushing the schedule, and having the aircraft wiggling in place did nothing for my frustration in the moment).

Honestly, its not every time. I've seldom had issues in either the A320Nv2 or PMDG 737-800 (although the turning circles seemed a bit off compared to before SU15), ie, smaller aircraft, but the 787 has done literal donuts during a planned pushback prior to the 1.03 update and the A306 obviously struggled here.
Clearly no PC specific enhancements, VR etc. 
Connected peripherals are official Xbox Series controller, Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack X Airbus Edition, mouse, keyboard.
Airport SimObject Toggle Tool is a recent addition, the pushback issues pre-date its installation.

[grizzly_m 4]

15 hours ago, Tom said:

Those of you on PC using Steam can also try deleting the "aerosoft-toolbar-pushback" found in "%appdata%\Microsoft Flight Simulator\Packages", which will force the WASM files to recompile. If this fixes the issue for you, please let us know.

I am not a Steam user, but it gave me an idea. I deleted the "aerosoft-toolbar-pushback" folder in the "C:\Users\myname\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalState\packages" folder and lauched the sim to give it a try withe the Fenix A320. The planned pushback occured quite well. Some light S curves, but globally followed the plan. The plan consisted in a straight line, a 90° turn and an other straight leg. The S curve occured during the second straight leg.

 

The test above has been made with a pushback speed of 2kts. When I set a speed of 3kts, the spinning problem came again during the turn, making my plane doing 360° turns. Back in 2 kts gave me the same results than my first try (good but not perfect. At 1kt, everything was perfect, the straight line ans the turn, but... It's very slow !

 

I also tried withe the FBW's A320N withe the same results.

 

In conclusion, deleting the "aerosoft-toolbar-pushback" folder in the "C:\Users\myname\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalState\packages" has significantly reduced the problem for me and made the addon usable in VR (As I mentioned in all my previous posts, the addon wors well in 2d on my system). That's all for tonight, I just hope that everything will be the same tomorow. If I have the time (and patience), I will try with other planes and keep you in touch...

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Hi grizzly_m, thanks for this input. So, to be perfectly clear there will only be one place for PC users for the  aerosoft-toolbar-pushback file, and that is in the community folder. Remove it from the community and of course, nothing works ! I do not have this file anywhere else but the my problem is similar to most of the other contributors on this forum issue. There is a saying in my industry that says, if all else fails, read the instructions so I spent a while carefully reading the installation notes for the Pushback Pro and came across this in the notes. 

 

 

Please login to display this image.

 

[grizzly_m 4]

It aslo says "An optimal speed of 4 knots is set by default ." During my quick tests the problem began with a speed higher than 1 knot. And when I'm not in vr, everyrhing works well at 2 or 3 knots.

Concerning the folder I spoke about in my previous post, double-check (I think it is an hidden folder, make sure your explorer displays them)

[Captain_Pugwash 10]

Me again. Thanks for the above. I found another aerosoft-toolbar-pushback file in my C drive as you suggest. File removed and planned a new, heart in mouth, pushback. First attempt at 4 kts, then 3 kts then 2 kts then 1 kt. ! ! ! All failed miserably and made not the slightest bit of difference. This is driving me insane ! !

[Tom 457]

Still working on trying to get to the bottom of this - We hope to have an update soon.