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When can you expect your Honeycomb - Bravo Throttle Quadrant


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Well there it is.

 

I kind of feel better now, more at ease.

 

I can deal with despair, but I was having a hard time with the hope.

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I am not sure that you are trying to achieve. We do not want people to cancel the orders, why the heck would we want that? The simple fact is that we do not have the hardware we hoped to have. Same fo

Before I say another word, let me say that I am a moderator and tech support guy here, which means that I receive some free software from time to time for doing what I love, helping fellow flight simm

Of course you deny it. Touch a nerve. 😉 Until a few days ago, a delivery for spring was announced on the homepage. Now it is said in the shop that new information will follow shortly. How does Aer

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vor 4 Minuten, Marius Ellenbürger sagte:

Hello, if you prefer a refund, please let us know! Of course you get the payment back within 48h.

Greetings,
Marius

Naturally. That is the easiest way. The customer cancels the order. No.

First I put Aerosoft on default. Then I will claim damages for non-performance.

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Summary of where I stand now.

 

I've just issued a cancellation request with a UK supplier for the Bravo.  Nice for them to hold onto a shade over £250 of mine while I waited on an update from Honeycomb Aeronautical > Aerosoft > UK Supplier on possible fulfilment dates.  In short, tumbleweed has been the order of the day from all parties concerned.  A lot of faith has been placed in companies by a large section of the flightsim community, and largely this has been let down, ranging from lack of product,  lack of update to lack of concern.  All of these can be easily denied but they are ultimately and immediately apparent to the customer base.  

 

While I do offer a degree of sympathy and understanding to the position that Aerosoft find themselves in, I cannot help but feel that Honeycomb have taken the easy way out by employing Aerosoft as the European distributor.  Lack of product = consumers blame distributor, Lack of update = consumers blame distributor.  It has been rebutted a couple of times on this thread, but I do still hold the opinion that Honeycomb genuinely do not view outside of the US as an important market.  I'd be hugely interested to view the figures on units shipped to EU vs US.

 

It is very easy for businesses to blame the current pandemic but, while horrible a challenge as it is, the world does still keep on turning and Honeycomb have evidenced this by the marketing for the Charlie Pedals now making an appearance.  If there is such a massive semiconductor shortage for the production of the Bravo, how on earth are they going to manage the production of an additional SKU to their product portfolio?

 

I'd love to get my hands on a Bravo as I think the product looks great and fills a real gap in the market for the flight simmer.  Do I think I'll get one before the turn of the year?  Doubtful.  Have I lost faith in Honeycomb?  Absolutely.

 

I've just placed an order for the Thrustmaster TCA Quadrant.  At least that way, I'll be able to get some flying done before FlightSim 2022 lands.  Maybe by then there will be signs of a Bravo available... although my guess is we will probably be in the midst of marketing blurb for the Foxtrot.

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1 hour ago, FSH1HH said:

Naturally. That is the easiest way. The customer cancels the order. No.

First I put Aerosoft on default. Then I will claim damages for non-performance.

 

I am not sure that you are trying to achieve. We do not want people to cancel the orders, why the heck would we want that? The simple fact is that we do not have the hardware we hoped to have. Same for Amazon, same for every single shop. In Asia, in the US everywhere.  Every single one we had is being shipped, even our own developers who need to support them have to share them and send them around.  Some of our support people do not have them. Please note that we have always tried to give as much information as possible, as honest as possible. Unless we had products to ship we never published when we we could send them to customers.

 

Of course you are upset, you are not the only one. What do you think my support staff is handling? But if you threaten us with legal action I kindly request that you do so how these things are done, with letters from lawyers etc.  Will never happen as you even a single 'cheap' call to a lawyer will make it clear that we are not to blame.  For sure your  post will not get you the hardware faster. Also not slower of course. 

 

If people think we are cheating on them in some way, my simple question is why? We got tons of customers and nothing to send them. We could sell 4 containers full as easy as 20 containers. With some serious advertising we could sell thousands more and make a small fortune. But again they are simply not available.  The email that was send out was based on information we got late last Friday. We wanted a few office hours to decide how to handle it. The email is clear, open and honest.  By god believe me we rather send out boxes than emails!

 

That some of the customers react in a violent way is more or less unavoidable. This is 2021 and things are as they are. But while we feel customers should be free to have their say, when I see unfounded and totally untrue statements about how things simple are and how we react to them the posts will be hidden. 

 

If you have any question, any serious comment, feel free. If you believe that there is some big conspiracy and we are hiding thousands of boxes for some nefarious scheme to get a few euros more per box and in the meantime piss off hundreds of customer, you have no idea how retail works. 

 

Aerosoft is proud to be open and honest to customers. For good news and bad news. But I'll be damned if I let this company (not public) forum be used to bash us with senseless rumors. Just not going to happen. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, FSH1HH said:

And if the delivery is delayed: Why not inform the customers who have pre-ordered the product and have already paid for it?

 

As we did. We just wanted a few hours to discuss it internally.

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20 minutes ago, Phannybawz said:

Summary of where I stand now.

I've just issued a cancellation request with Scan for the Bravo. 

 

I am feeling a bit uncomfortable having news about a shop we are not responsible for discussed here. Keep in mind this is not a public forum but a company forum. 

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I am not going to cancel the order.  What's the point of this?  then again to be at the end of the line?)) Autumn means autumn.  thank you guys for your honesty.

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Maybe I'm being a bit naive here but why can't Aerosoft, as a gesture of goodwill, offer those of us who have ordered and paid upfront a refund while maintaining our place in the queue, then when they become available in the Autumn, or whenever, give us the choice of paying again or cancelling.

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vor 31 Minuten, Mathijs Kok sagte:

 

I am not sure that you are trying to achieve. We do not want people to cancel the orders, why the heck would we want that? The simple fact is that we do not have the hardware we hoped to have. Same for Amazon, same for every single shop. In Asia, in the US everywhere.  Every single one we had is being shipped, even our own developers who need to support them have to share them and send them around.  Some of our support people do not have them. Please note that we have always tried to give as much information as possible, as honest as possible. Unless we had products to ship we never published when we we could send them to customers.

 

Of course you are upset, you are not the only one. What do you think my support staff is handling? But if you threaten us with legal action I kindly request that you do so how these things are done, with letters from lawyers etc.  Will never happen as you even a single 'cheap' call to a lawyer will make it clear that we are not to blame.  For sure your  post will not get you the hardware faster. Also not slower of course. 

 

If people think we are cheating on them in some way, my simple question is why? We got tons of customers and nothing to send them. We could sell 4 containers full as easy as 20 containers. With some serious advertising we could sell thousands more and make a small fortune. But again they are simply not available.  The email that was send out was based on information we got late last Friday. We wanted a few office hours to decide how to handle it. The email is clear, open and honest.  By god believe me we rather send out boxes than emails!

 

That some of the customers react in a violent way is more or less unavoidable. This is 2021 and things are as they are. But while we feel customers should be free to have their say, when I see unfounded and totally untrue statements about how things simple are and how we react to them the posts will be hidden. 

 

If you have any question, any serious comment, feel free. If you believe that there is some big conspiracy and we are hiding thousands of boxes for some nefarious scheme to get a few euros more per box and in the meantime piss off hundreds of customer, you have no idea how retail works. 

 

Aerosoft is proud to be open and honest to customers. For good news and bad news. But I'll be damned if I let this company (not public) forum be used to bash us with senseless rumors. Just not going to happen. 

 

 

Mathijs first: I don't want to threaten anyone! And I didn't mean to say that anyone here is being betrayed. If the impression arose: I'm sorry.
What do I want to achieve with my action? If the products are available at some point and I don't get them quickly, I have arguments on my side. If I've never delayed Aerosoft, I'm out of luck.
Of course, I know that this means I won't get the product "next week".
But I am sure that your purchase proceeded like this.

But now: I don't know where that is, but in Germany the documents I mentioned do not have to be drawn up in writing, and certainly not by a lawyer. I don't know if you don't know better or if this is supposed to be intimidating.
=======
What I'm actually about: You said that something like this can also happen at Amazon. Yes it can. Theoretically. Practically not. Amazon will not debit my account until the goods are shipped. And I absolutely cannot understand why Aerosoft would now like to use its customers' money for several months.

Does that match your own requirements in terms of customer satisfaction?
Other companies would credit the amount back and charge it again at a later date.

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28 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

I am feeling a bit uncomfortable having news about a shop we are not responsible for discussed here. Keep in mind this is not a public forum but a company forum. 

Understandable and post duly edited.

 

My other points remain unchanged.

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17 minutes ago, FSH1HH said:

Other companies would credit the amount back and charge it again at a later date.

 

And that is EXACTLY what we offered to customers!

 

There is simply no way we can cancel an order customer did without his agreement. You threaten us with legal action because we can't deliver. Now you say we should just cancel orders (without talking to the customer) because we can't deliver.  Something that is clearly as bad and probably illegal.  

 

As I said, you do not understand the legal aspects and are still spreading false and incorrect information. You also managed to get a ton of negative votes, a warnings and some feedback. Nothing of that seemed to make any impression. I therefor remove you from this forum for 4 weeks. Your legal representative can send their comments to mathijs.kok@aerosoft.com I and I will make sure they will be replied too. 

 

 

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FSH1HH, I did not expect you to vote my post up... But exactly what did I write that was not true?

 

Just write a factual post (thus supported by facts) and it will be here. If you are just here to vote people down I will simply remove those votes.  If you make legal threats back them up by a correct legal letter, I assure you we will reply fast.  In the end I am just not sure what you try to achieve. Clearly you very seriously you want the hardware. Otherwise you would simply have the order refunded (as promised we do so fast and without questions). 

 

You have three options:

  1. Stay in the cue and get your hardware as soon as it is available.
  2. Cancel your order, get your money back in two working days and buy something else. 
  3. Start legal proceedings you very well know have no base and will put your order on hold. 
    Keep in mind that option 2 and 3 are not compatible. You are either our customer or you are not.

On a personal note.  This whole affair is seriously messed up.  As seller and distributor we are at the end of the chain. We can sell and distribute what we get. We can share information we get . We have been totally and utterly honest about this because we want customers who thrust us.  Sharing knowingly incorrect information would be utterly stupid in this situation.  Our sales department is working flat out to reply to customers. 

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Vor 1 Stunde, Mathijs Kok sagte:

You have three options:

 

And where is option no. 4, refund the money but keep the order and have the customer pay once the shipments are actually coming?

 

The preorder is STILL possible and until yesterday the estimate restock was spring 2021 but now we get to hear that the units are not just stuck on a ship (probably the Ever Given?) on the way but have actually NEVER been built and wont for quite a while... Way to go, customer service!!

Then again, what does "further deliveries" in August / September mean? Leaving Hong Kong? Arriving in Paderborn?

 

I am not dissapointed (well maybe a little bit) by the fact that there is a global shortage of supplies but I am strongly dissapointed by your customer service.

 

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12 hours ago, DLH7LA said:

 

And where is option no. 4, refund the money but keep the order and have the customer pay once the shipments are actually coming?

 

The preorder is STILL possible and until yesterday the estimate restock was spring 2021 but now we get to hear that the units are not just stuck on a ship (probably the Ever Given?) on the way but have actually NEVER been built and wont for quite a while... Way to go, customer service!!

Then again, what does "further deliveries" in August / September mean? Leaving Hong Kong? Arriving in Paderborn?

 

I am not dissapointed (well maybe a little bit) by the fact that there is a global shortage of supplies but I am strongly dissapointed by your customer service.

 

 

Regarding Option 4...

14 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

And that is EXACTLY what we offered to customers!

 

Did you actually email support and ask if a refund  of payment, to then pay later was an option? If so please provide the proof in some form, you attitude would indicate otherwise but I would like to be proven wrong.

 

Don't lambast customer service for not giving information that they may also not have had. As I mentioned in a previous post, at my work we sell to ourselves and even then we can't get a 100% reliable supply chain, shipments cancelled with minimal notice causing us to scramble on what to do now as we didn't get items we were expecting. People are going to be unhappy with the long wait times and uncertainty of the whole process, and I think a lot of people recognise and respect that, your attitude however seems to have crossed the line and gone too far by placing malice and ill intent on people who have taken no actions to warrant this.

 

Personally, I've found their customer service quite agreeable. It may not be the most immediate replies you could get, but the replies you do get are often factual and helpful, and I would rather wait a little longer for a detailed correct answer, then what amounts to a shoulder shrug.

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Before I say another word, let me say that I am a moderator and tech support guy here, which means that I receive some free software from time to time for doing what I love, helping fellow flight simmers... something I've been doing around the flight sim community for a very, very long time.  In other words, I don't speak for Aerosoft in this forum, and I would never try to.

 

Given that I worked for Honeycomb and (for lack of a better word) their parent company, I am loathe to jump into threads such as these.  But when a company is complained about which I know takes the best care and has the very best customer service in the flight sim world and far better than some companies outside the flight sim world, I feel an ethical necessity to set the record straight.

 

What is needed here is common sense along with a correct, logical perspective.  No offense is intended in this post, this is merely an attempt to look at this situation without emotion clouding things up.  Join me, will you friends?

 

1. Aerosoft makes no money unless they sell products, ergo they want to sell you products, otherwise the many full time employees drain the company coffers at a faster rate than they are filled.

 

2. It costs far less to have returning customers than it does to attract new ones, ergo Aerosoft would much rather you be happy with your purchase and customer service than not. 

 

3. I have worked for a number of leading flight sim companies in my 40+ years in the community, and Aerosoft is the most special company I've ever seen - and I've seen it behind the scenes and klnown their CEO and Program Managers for a very long time, and I know many of the terrific people who work at Aerosoft.  In and outside our community I have long has a reputation for ethics, honesty and treating people right (or at least how they deserved), and I am immensely proud to call many of those who run and work for Aerosoft my friends. They are friends because of the type of people they are. 

 

I tell you now, they have earned and are deseving of my respect and of yours, even in an age where people are quick to condem and write anything they feel like without proof or the effort to ensure their first thought is the right one.  It is certainly a tough time for public figures, in or out of business.

 

4. Yes, there is indeed a global shortage of IC Chips, IC Boards and plastics which affect the manufacturing of all game controllers.  In fact, this shortage is affecting all electronics manufacturing including military and medical equipment. I'm not guessing, I monitored this professsionally while with Honeycomb and Snakebyte and I accurately forecast this before anyone else I knew at those companies.  This is unprecidentled, and there was no way to prevent it given it is COVID related.  Even China is looking elsewhere for these materials (Google search will lead you to news on this).

 

5. Even if there was no a global shortage on the materials mentioned above, Honeycomb products are the most sought after controllers in the flight sim world.  If you want to ensure you get one, pre-ordering is your best bet.  Due to the demand and the global shortage, it's very difficult to tell you when the order might be fulfilled. You can be unhappy about it (I wouldn't blame you), but don't take it out on Aerosoft because it's not their fault.

 

6. People, particularly in the west and most particularly younger people (I'm 60) are used to getting their way and getting what they want without waiting very long for it. Don't beleive this described you then test this by standing in a long time at a fast food resturant and take notice the moment you start to fidget or tap your foot.  We are affected psychologically when our needs and/or expectations are not met on the schedule we predict them to be.  Next test:  Go on a date where you expect to get laid later on, and have that go south on you.  It's no mistake that infants exhibit the same behavior, as we were all infants at some point in the past and neupathways are in hyperspeed at that point in our lives, and that sets the tone for how we interpret things and interact with the world and the people in it.  But as adults we understand this and we stive to use tools like common sense, intelligence, rational thought, and perspective to interpret situations and develop our responses to those situations.  Sadly, our ability to do this correctly, in context and proportionately, is quickly becoming a lost skill set.  You'll know, perfectly, if you're one of those who posess under these developed skills if what I've written offends or so much as tweaks your sensibilities, which is not intended.

 

7. If you want one of these products, then my advice is to keep your order with the understanding that we are living during a time when we are all affected and greatly inconvenieced compared to two years ago. Chances are that Aerosoft has been in the flight sim world longer than you have, they may well be in the flight sim world longer than you will be, and you can rest assured that this company has a long track record of taking care of their customers.  Their people or computers won't forget you or your order, and they will provide you with updates as things change.  Also bear in mind that any company with whom you may have ordered is in the same boat, which is also not the fault of Aerosoft.

 

This thing about paying for a pre-order?  It's been standard for companies to this for a very long time, and while not all companies do this, more and more are doing so due to the market in which they work and because of the changes the world economy has been through over the past 2 years.  Unhappy about it?  Role the dice and cancel your order.  What the product?  Keep your order.  It really is as simple as that. 

You may feel like you're powerless in this, but that is just a feeling.  The reality is that you still hold sway,  and the decision is still yours.  I know for a fact there are 10 people waiting to stand in line if you want to step away, and it's just that simple.

 

As always, I leave you with my very best wishes and hope that what I shared with you will help you to understand things a little better.

 

 

Yours most truly,

 

 

 

 

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On 5/3/2021 at 3:56 PM, FSH1HH said:

Naturally. That is the easiest way. The customer cancels the order. No.

First I put Aerosoft on default. Then I will claim damages for non-performance.

Really!!  What on earth do you expect to achieve by that??  

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While Aerosoft isn't to blame, I can't help but thinking that Honeycomb does a bad job here. No communication on their website, Facebook page or Twitter. Many customer inquiries can be found below their scarce Twitter and Facebook posts, yet no answers are provided. I sent them a mail a couple weeks ago about ETAs and just recently got a replay that basically reads "we don't know". I guess Honeycomb is a small manufacturer that has to queue in line and wait until those huge Chinese manufacturing plants fulfill larger customer orders. I would have assumed the "Microsoft partner" thing would have brought some leverage in securing production capabilities but that doesn't seem to be the case. At least it is obvious that those X-Box specific hardware announcements won't see the light of day any time soon. At least not on MSFS X-Box release date (whenever that will be).

 

Guess I'll have to figure out if I'll go with another product meanwhile...

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FSH1HH here. Since I was banned, I had to re-rule, probably against the rules. Still, I want to get rid of something.

 

Today I received the answer to my inquiry from Aerosoft. I will get my money back within 48 hours and the order will remain active. Therefore I would like to "apologize" to Aerosoft and have to say that the customer support is better than I mentioned.

 

Since the offer (money back and order remains active) was not made proactively, I did not expect this possibility to exist.

 

Aerosoft: (re) established customer satisfaction.

 

Sorry that I was so "bitchy". Perhaps the fact that Englishc is not my mother tongue is not very helpful - but that should not be an excuse.

 

And also sorry that I signed up again. But I think that my now positive experience should be announced.

 

It's always easy to complain. Apologizing is less easy. Hence this post and I hope I can offer Mathijs my virtual hand.

 

And now behead, stone and kill me. Or not.

 

(And for the third time, sorry that I signed up again. This time only with good intentions. I will no longer use this account and wait until my "old" one is free again. But I wanted the good news and apology immediately Get rid of.)

 

@Mathijs Kok

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38 minutes ago, FSH1HH1 said:

FSH1HH here. Since I was banned, I had to re-rule, probably against the rules. Still, I want to get rid of something.

 

Today I received the answer to my inquiry from Aerosoft. I will get my money back within 48 hours and the order will remain active. Therefore I would like to "apologize" to Aerosoft and have to say that the customer support is better than I mentioned.

 

Since the offer (money back and order remains active) was not made proactively, I did not expect this possibility to exist.

 

Aerosoft: (re) established customer satisfaction.

 

Sorry that I was so "bitchy". Perhaps the fact that Englishc is not my mother tongue is not very helpful - but that should not be an excuse.

 

And also sorry that I signed up again. But I think that my now positive experience should be announced.

 

It's always easy to complain. Apologizing is less easy. Hence this post and I hope I can offer Mathijs my virtual hand.

 

And now behead, stone and kill me. Or not.

 

(And for the third time, sorry that I signed up again. This time only with good intentions. I will no longer use this account and wait until my "old" one is free again. But I wanted the good news and apology immediately Get rid of.)

 

@Mathijs Kok

 

Well done, I admire you for your honest and humble response.  We don't see this sort of behaviour on the internet very often, more's the pity.

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:14 AM, paulski said:

 

Well done, I admire you for your honest and humble response.  We don't see this sort of behaviour on the internet very often, more's the pity.

Really? Just really?

Spread false information, threatened legal action, got mostly down voted, caused many detailed replies from Aerosoft staff just to put his misleading information right, got himself banned, finally got what he wanted and then apologised. Yes, we really do need to see more of this behaviour.... NOT.

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2 hours ago, Tyke666 GSB said:

Really? Just really?

Spread false information, threatened legal action, got mostly down voted, caused many detailed replies from Aerosoft staff just to put his misleading information right, got himself banned, finally got what he wanted and then apologised. Yes, we really do need to see more of this behaviour.... NOT.

I was NOT condoning the previous posts just acknowledging that it's uncommon these days for anyone to hold their hands up and admit they were wrong.

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2 hours ago, paulski said:

In other news I saw that a Bravo sold on eBay (UK) for £720.  I'm guessing the latest news has made these even more 'desirable'....

 

Just wait until someone will find a way to mine Ethereum with the Bravo...

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Hey,

I want to jump in, even despite the fact I am not waiting for Bravo.

 

I just wanted to my (not so serious) dissapointment that while those who pre-ordered Bravo got this epic thread, the humble group who ordered Airbus Add-On have just tiny pieces ;)

 

I wonder if we - Thurstmasterers are more patient? But hey, I cannot wait for my hardware too.

 

Cheers,

&

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