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Eduard Gasull

Hard landing on every autoland

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49 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I'll have a talk with my devs about this. 

Thanks Mathijs and Dave as always for your support

 

Rich

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So I just did LEPA-LEPA Runway 24L for T/O and Landing using the same figures provided by Eduard.  Without using any Wind Additive (wasn't required, winds were 220/3), VApp calculated 124, and this reminded me of a conversation I had with someone about a month ago.  Anyway, I had the same Hard Landing, but when I flew the same approach and manually set VApp to 132 the landing was fine.

 

I normally seek out bad weather to fly into, and always adjust VApp with a wind additive, so I suppose that's why I never saw this.  Flying into very low or calm winds really proves out there is an issue (probably two or three, but they will have to be researched).  I will have to get a hold of an A320 performance calculator to check this further, but until then I would add 6kts to your VApp (not including Wind Additive) to compensate for this.

 

Also, according to Project Fly, my landing rate was -118 feet per minute, while the printout in the aircraft said my landing rate was 281 feet per minute (which is not a hard landing).  I think the vertical speed calculation in the Airbus is just a bit off because it sure felt like a low fps landing in the aircraft.  I will also check the VApp calculation with  a performance calculator.

 

So guys... you nailed it!  Thanks so much for sticking to your guns on this on!

 

Airbus Landing Report

Screenshot - 8_31_2019 , 2_06_41 PM.png

 

Project Fly Landing Report

 

Screenshot - 8_31_2019 , 2_14_55 PM.png

 

 

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Five minutes ago I did a flight from LEMH to LIEO in severe weather with AS4 running and wanted to test this.  So I too did an auto land and it was exactly as described, no flare and very hard landing.  It must be a setting in AS4.

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3 hours ago, JackSwyr said:

Five minutes ago I did a flight from LEMH to LIEO in severe weather with AS4 running and wanted to test this.  So I too did an auto land and it was exactly as described, no flare and very hard landing.  It must be a setting in AS4.

 

Jack,

 

We've found a small bug, but it doesn't affect flare or the minimums call. In the case sighted above, the Decision Height seems to have been placed int he Baro field, which is what caused those issues.  I flew the same flight with the same loadout 6 times and both the flare and the minimums call were fine as the correct value was placed in the correct field (Radio Altimiter, not Baro).

 

So we're not seeing any issue with the Minimums or the Flare.  If you are, please open a new post and provide the airports, route, and loadout, and winds/temp/pressure for the approach and I'll be happy to give it a look.

 

Just in case this is a factor in your flights... a lot of people get confused with Decision Altitude verses Decision Height.  Attached is a little training aide I pieced together around 10 years ago that explains things a little better.  If you want to skip the article, just remember that Decision Height goes into the Radio Altimeter field, or alternatively the Decision Altitude goes into the Baro field.  Without these values in the correct places, you can end up with the type of issues you described. There is more to it than that of course, but that's the down and dirty.

 

Best wishes!

UNDERSTANDING DECISION ALTITUDE.pdf

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Thanks Dave, sadly I didn't write it all down.  But next flight I will.  I have to say though, all my recent flights have been hand landings, haven't done an autoland in a while.  And despite not setting a DH it still landed exactly like his video.  And the thing in common was AS4.  And, there were thunderstorms and a lot of turbulence at the airport.  Thanks for getting back to me, I was following this just out of curiosity to see how it was resolved.  I still LOVE this Bus, and will be buying the A330.

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3 minutes ago, JackSwyr said:

Thanks Dave, sadly I didn't write it all down.  But next flight I will.  I have to say though, all my recent flights have been hand landings, haven't done an autoland in a while.  And despite not setting a DH it still landed exactly like his video.  And the thing in common was AS4.  And, there were thunderstorms and a lot of turbulence at the airport.  Thanks for getting back to me, I was following this just out of curiosity to see how it was resolved.  I still LOVE this Bus, and will be buying the A330.

 

Did you include a wind additive to your VApp?  In the sim I almost always do exact the opposite of what I'd do in real life, and which is seeking out miserable conditions in which to land (yep, a full fledged flight sim sadist here!).  I don't find any issues so long as I include the wind additive to VApp, except that you should add about 6 knots to what your total VApp (VApp + Wind Additive + 6knts until we resolve the bug, which should prevent the Hard Landing if using Autopilot (Case II/III).  Hand flying, it's all on the pilot!

 

Anyway, if you're still having issues, please open a new thread and PM me the link and I'll be happy to take a look.

 

 

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Yes, I was something like +12 above VApp because I was getting the "Speed, Speed" warning.  So I was plenty fast.  Much appreciated!

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IRL you don't need to add any value to VAPP , because Airbus has a wonderful function  call it " GROUND SPEED MINI " when the aircraft flies an approach in managed speed. 

So is understandable if this function is not simulated you need to perform the addition manually.

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1 hour ago, Polo said:

IRL you don't need to add any value to VAPP , because Airbus has a wonderful function  call it " GROUND SPEED MINI " when the aircraft flies an approach in managed speed. 

So is understandable if this function is not simulated you need to perform the addition manually.

Hi

I asked about this a little while back .. its in the 32 bit airbus but not the 64 bit yet , its planned from what i was told but not sure when it will be added to the Airbus.

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11 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Did you include a wind additive to your VApp?  In the sim I almost always do exact the opposite of what I'd do in real life, and which is seeking out miserable conditions in which to land (yep, a full fledged flight sim sadist here!).  I don't find any issues so long as I include the wind additive to VApp, except that you should add about 6 knots to what your total VApp (VApp + Wind Additive + 6knts until we resolve the bug, which should prevent the Hard Landing if using Autopilot (Case II/III).  Hand flying, it's all on the pilot!

 

Anyway, if you're still having issues, please open a new thread and PM me the link and I'll be happy to take a look.

 

 

thanks for all dave. Maybe i will look silly but how i can calculate howmany kts i have to add becase the wind additive?

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53 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

thanks for all dave. Maybe i will look silly but how i can calculate howmany kts i have to add becase the wind additive?

 

 

I use the Approach Correction (APPR COR):

 

Add 5 kts if the A/THR is on,

Add 1/3 of the Headwind Component up to a maximum of 15 kts.

 

Recall my earlier advice of adding 6 knots to correct for the Heavy Landing Printout (with a zero headwind component), and until the Devs look at this I would still add 6 knots with our Airbus.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Eduard Gasull said:

Maybe i will look silly but how i can calculate howmany kts i have to add becase the wind additive?

 

By the way, you question isn't silly one bit!  Asking questions is merely the first step in the learning process, and I hope you are always willing to post them because there are usually many other people with the same question, both now and in the future. 

 

Also, don't think for a second that I'm an expert, I'm a Boeing convert and I often learn as much by researching and answering Airbus questions as the person asking them!  There are FAR more knowledgeable people on the team than I am, but they are busy working on the A330 right now - they're doing, I'm trying to learn and keep up!

 

Thank you again for sticking to your guns about the Hard Landing issue, it was a good reminder for me to actually fly the route someone is reporting rather than just relying on what I saw in past flights.  In truth, I normally would have flown the route you reported, but we've all been very busy lately and haven't had very much extra time. But thank you!

 

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1 hour ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

 

I use the Approach Correction (APPR COR):

 

Add 5 kts if the A/THR is on,

Add 1/3 of the Headwind Component up to a maximum of 15 kts.

 

Recall my earlier advice of adding 6 knots to correct for the Heavy Landing Printout (with a zero headwind component), and until the Devs look at this I would still add 6 knots with our Airbus.

 

 

 

 

Let’s see if I understand it.

So for an autoland with approach speed of 130, the procedure  is

 if auto throttle is on, +5kts

+

wind 240/6 for rwy24 + 2kts

+

at the moment with aerosoft airbus until developers fix the bug  + 6kts

 

so for the final approach speed result in

143kts

 

am I correct? 

57 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

By the way, you question isn't silly one bit!  Asking questions is merely the first step in the learning process, and I hope you are always willing to post them because there are usually many other people with the same question, both now and in the future. 

 

Also, don't think for a second that I'm an expert, I'm a Boeing convert and I often learn as much by researching and answering Airbus questions as the person asking them!  There are FAR more knowledgeable people on the team than I am, but they are busy working on the A330 right now - they're doing, I'm trying to learn and keep up!

 

Thank you again for sticking to your guns about the Hard Landing issue, it was a good reminder for me to actually fly the route someone is reporting rather than just relying on what I saw in past flights.  In truth, I normally would have flown the route you reported, but we've all been very busy lately and haven't had very much extra time. But thank you!

 

Thanks for be so friendly and for your time. I really appreciate aerosoft support team! 

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15 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

am I correct? 

 

You got it man!  Welcome to the Boeing world!  LOL!

 

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On 9/1/2019 at 4:15 PM, DaveCT2003 said:

 

You got it man!  Welcome to the Boeing world!  LOL!

 

😃

 

I have tried your advise to add 6 kts,  also now i add plus wind aditive and aprroach is much stable right now. I dont have speed alarm or sincrate. How ever the plane still does not flare. Thanks for all!

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22 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

😃

 

I have tried your advise to add 6 kts,  also now i add plus wind aditive and aprroach is much stable right now. I dont have speed alarm or sincrate. How ever the plane still does not flare. Thanks for all!

 

Interesting. I don't have any issue with the flare.

 

We are looking deep into the Approach Speeds and GS Mini.

 

The next update should have improved Connected Flight Deck, and after the update is out we'll have six or more people who are online at various times to fly with others and this may well be helpful to you.

 

Best wishes!

 

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9 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Interesting. I don't have any issue with the flare.

 

We are looking deep into the Approach Speeds and GS Mini.

 

The next update should have improved Connected Flight Deck, and after the update is out we'll have six or more people who are online at various times to fly with others and this may well be helpful to you.

 

Best wishes!

 

one question just for curiosity. 

 

when you upload the fuel and passengers, do you generate a loadsheet from the fuel planner or just loading the plane an se the numbers. maybe how the plane is balance is my problem.

 

in the other hand

 

 i have a few days i purchase Rex force Sky, i will try to fly with that wheather engine and see if autoland works. and if it does, the problem is clearly AS for my situation.

 

But lets wait for the next update.

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13 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

one question just for curiosity. 

 

when you upload the fuel and passengers, do you generate a loadsheet from the fuel planner or just loading the plane an se the numbers. maybe how the plane is balance is my problem.

 

in the other hand

 

 i have a few days i purchase Rex force Sky, i will try to fly with that wheather engine and see if autoland works. and if it does, the problem is clearly AS for my situation.

 

But lets wait for the next update.

 

I use both methods.

 

Woof!  Going from ActiveSky to REX Weather engine?  That's like going from a machine gun to throwing tiny little rocks!  I'd stick with AS.  Besides, it's not the Weather engine causing you any issues.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

I use both methods.

 

Woof!  Going from ActiveSky to REX Weather engine?  That's like going from a machine gun to throwing tiny little rocks!  I'd stick with AS.  Besides, it's not the Weather engine causing you any issues.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

No no no, god save me. But i just want to test autoland with Rex wheather engine. As autoland perfectly work for me without AS. I want just try what happen with rex engine. I only use Rex Skyforce for change the texture clouds and sky dynamicly. So i past for ASCA to REX sky force. But AS still my first wheater engine.

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Hi again @DaveCT2003

 

 

I just want to inform that a few days ago a reformat my computer and upgrade my windows to v10pro. And I'm not missing windows 7 at all but still is the best windows I´ve seen. 

I have a clean install of P3D, some ORBX products, and the airbus. I installed Rex skyforce and tried with their weather engine. you are right it's a little bit weird but anyway I test it the autoland today on LEAS.It was a very windy approach until 1000ft GL. I add the 6 kts you advise me. And "voila" Autoland and flare worked making a touchdown of 300ft/m with the weather engine. I don't know if you have done something of work on this new 5.1 experimental update. But in my system, the OS and certain a lot of drivers have changed. So i will continue doing test once a i have a clean install of Active sky and will inform again.

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