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Crash after update


Mathijs Kok
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30 minutes ago, Hans Hartmann said:

So, after checking five files, I have to tell you something that you probably don't want to hear at all. Please don't shoot the messenger, because it's not his fault!

 

All five systems use Intel Core i3/5/7-2000 or -3000 series CPU. However, according to the Flight Simulator product pages in Steam and the Microsoft Store, the minimum system requirement is a Core i5-4660 aka Haswell core. This is not because the pre-Haswell CPUs are too slow, it is because the Haswell core comes with an extended instruction set (BMI 2) that Flight Simulator uses when loading WASM modules. All crash dumps that we received, point to an error caused when the assembly instruction "shrx" (shift right without affecting flags), simply because this instruction doesn't exist on your CPUs.

 

So much for the technical part. We're now waiting for a response from Asobo with some information on what's going to happen next. I hope to have more information for you within the next hour.

Do you know why this does not apply then to when the WASM is loaded from AS Store files?

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The facts in my case:

 

1) CPU Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz

 

2) Initial CRJ purchase from MSFS Marketplace and first update, no CTD issues.  All subsequent updates from the MSFS Marketplace resulted in CTDs.

 

3) Then I re-purchased the CRJ directly from Aerosoft and no more CTDs.

 

4) Same CPU and I assume the same WASM modules. 

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vor 2 Minuten, Flightfascination sagte:

The facts of my case:

 

1) CPU Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz

 

2) Initial CRJ purchase from MSFS Marketplace and first update, no CTD issues.  All subsequent updates from the MSFS Marketplace resulted in CTDs.

 

3) Then I re-purchased the CRJ directly from Aerosoft and no more CTDs.

 

4) Same CPU and I assume the same WASM modules. 

 

That makes me wonder, too, whether it's just the missing CPU instruction causing the CTD just now unless marketplace and direct purchases are for whatever reason different builds where marketplace purchases require now (actually since SU4) a specific CPU instruction while direct purchases do not. Curious how this sorts out

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Just now, LH4371 said:

 

That makes me wonder, too, whether it's just the missing CPU instruction causing the CTD just now unless marketplace and direct purchases are for whatever reason different builds where marketplace purchases require now (actually since SU4) a specific CPU instruction while direct purchases do not. Curious how this sorts out

 

It is the same CRJ code, but the marketplace encrypts it and since lately pre-compiles the WASM (m) files.

For the AS shop version those files are compiled locally by your MSFS when loading into the CRJ the first time.

 

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27 minutes ago, LesOReilly said:

If I had a guess it is that the m files are not created locally now....

 

Indeed, the way the encryption works has been changed. It no longers need to create these files in first start-up

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1 hour ago, LesOReilly said:

Do you know why this does not apply then to when the WASM is loaded from AS Store files?

 

Because these are no encrypted. The issue is not in the code or the WASM format but in the encryption.

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44 minutes ago, Flightfascination said:

3) Then I re-purchased the CRJ directly from Aerosoft and no more CTDs.

4) Same CPU and I assume the same WASM modules. 

 

Indeed, but no encryption and that is the issue. 

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I know it does not help a lot in this case but we do see a LOT of people who do not take system requirements serious. About 15% of the problems with the sim (not add-ons) that we handle simply are about people who did not read that. 

 

For the sim you simply HAVE to take this serious: https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013463459-Minimum-Recommended-and-Ideal-PC-Specifications-for-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator

 

For the CRJ the marketplace does not suggest any hardware, but I strongly suggest you check before buying an add-0n. You can always find them on the product place handled by the publisher. For the CRJ that would be here: https://www.aerosoft.com/en/microsoft-flight-simulator/msfs-aircraft/3303/aerosoft-aircraft-crj-550/700 where you will find:

 

image.png

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Flightfascination said:

Lesson learned, in my specific case, I'll avoid the MSFS Marketplace for WASM based aircraft.

 

That's a choice, but if Asobo finds a way around it (and keep in mind, it is not a bug (!) it is simply the hardware is not according what is required) you might be fine on the Marketplace. 

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Fair enough Mathijs.  I myself was surprised, but very happy, when my below spec computer was even able to load MSFS at all (tested first with XBox Game Pass before actually purchasing).  I was happy enough to be in the "cheap seats", vs in the front row, and I know that it's just a matter of time before my luck runs out.....maybe Direct X 12 will be the end of the show.

 

I guess it was just a point of logic that if I could use MSFS, and had no issues with any aircraft to date, that it would have to be some big change that Asobo would make to MSFS that would be the issue, and not an aircraft.

 

In the end, in my opinion, MSFS is the future, and I do enjoy the CRJ, Aerosoft did a great job.  So hopefully, my luck will hold out a little longer with MSFS so that I can fly the CRJ 900/1000 (purchased direct from Aerosoft), before the next issue happens.  Otherwise, it looks like I'll be upgrading sooner than planned. 

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Vor 1 Stunde, Mathijs Kok sagte:

I know it does not help a lot in this case but we do see a LOT of people who do not take system requirements serious. About 15% of the problems with the sim (not add-ons) that we handle simply are about people who did not read that. 

 

while I see your point on minimum requirements, with all due respect in this case MS changed something "in between", if prior aircraft (including the release version of the CRJ) handle / load fine (I still get slightly more than 20 fps in the FBW320 and until recently in the CRJ) and it stopped just now. If that had happened from release day of the CRJ I would have asked MS for a refund within 1 day and all fine. And if the mentioned minimum CPUs are meant to be mandatory they could have put it in bold letters like the internet connection. But so they changed horses during the race which is just not anticipated and fair. 

 

anyway, thanks for your insights and support from AS, especially Hans pulling strings in the background. still hoping MS is willing to revert this new CPU instruction issue since it was perfectly working before and thus should be also a possible way forward

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18 minutes ago, LH4371 said:

anyway, thanks for your insights and support from AS, especially Hans pulling strings in the background. still hoping MS is willing to revert this new CPU instruction issue since it was perfectly working before and thus should be also a possible way forward

totally agree

 

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I think that 80% of the public that uses msfsx 2020 does not have the requirements of the latest generation processors, and this microsoft knows very well otherwise a good share of the market would have been lost in the sale of the sim.
I have an I7 4960x and GTX 1080 TI graphics and I assure you that the sim runs which is a show.
I have always thought that making new games more and more demanding are a great driving force for the hardware market and their sale, so much so that sometimes I have the doubt that everything is correlated to transport us to regularly buy more and more powerful PCs.
In my opinion not everyone can spend thousands of dollars every 2 years, so it's one thing to make the sim's performance scalable through settings, it's one thing to make it mandatory when purchasing a hardware upgrade.
If the problem is not solved I imagine that many will buy the CRJ from aerosoft, and not a new PC.
We hope that in this case Aerosoft will give us an additional discount

 

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1 hour ago, LH4371 said:

while I see your point on minimum requirements, with all due respect in this case MS changed something "in between",

 

Yes, they did so a few times. In the beta I could run it on my Surface! And with simupdates they have at least in two occasions blocked  hardware that did run the sim from running it. We had rather a lot of angry customers about that. But those people had hardware that simply did not match what Microsoft demanded when they bought it. 

 

As far as I can see, the minimal system requirements did NOT change. it is just that older versions would run on sub minimal hardware. If Microsoft changed the minimal system requirements AFTER you bought the product I am sure they will not have any problem refunding you.  I do not think they did that. 

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59 minutes ago, fanix1 said:

If the problem is not solved I imagine that many will buy the CRJ from aerosoft, and not a new PC.
We hope that in this case Aerosoft will give us an additional discount

 

I am very sorry, but you believe that if people do not read the system requirements of a product and we release an DLC that does not work we are responsible in any way? 

  • The simple fact is we are NOT responsible in any way.
  • The simple fact is Microsoft and Asobo are NOT responsible in any way.
  • The simple fact if that people who bought the sim without having the correct hardware made a mistake or made a gamble.
  • The simple fact is that is you have the hardware demanded by the sim, our add-on will work fine.

The software will run fine on the hardware that is demanded by the software.  As Hans wrote, it is clear this will upset some people, but we did not program this, we did not write the System Requirements at https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013463459-Minimum-Recommended-and-Ideal-PC-Specifications-for-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator

 

If you believe Microsoft did not explain things clearly enough I strongly suggest you discuss that with them. Not with us. I feel they did a fine job of explaining what hardware was needed. I just think a lot of people did not read it. 

 

And for that, dear fanix1, we do not take any blame. If you did not read or understand the system requirements of the sim that is between you and Microsoft. Not between you and Aerosoft. 

 

 

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Microsoft is absolutely right, in fact I will use my outdated hardware as long as the sim without third party addon allows me.
And as I said before if I want to use the CRJ I will buy it from Aerosoft and I will continue to use the sim.
For the moment, in my opinion, I can advise those who own hardware with minor requirements required by Microsoft not to buy on MarketPlace to avoid compatibility problems.
That's all
thank you

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1 hour ago, fanix1 said:

If the problem is not solved I imagine that many will buy the CRJ from aerosoft, and not a new PC.

I hope you are aware that, by doing this, you just delay the problem until you stumble across the next function in Flight Simulator that uses a BMI2 operation. It may be another add-on, it may be something completely different. The problem will hang over your system like the sword of Damocles. Your only real choice at this time is to either upgrade or to accept that not everything is going to work.

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On balance in 30 years I will spend more money on hardware and sims than buying a real airplane.
So I will continue to use MSFS or install P3D 3.4 as long as my PC allows it, I will not spend a thousand and a thousand dollars just because the landing gear of a single plane does not work, it is just a game.
However, I am more than sure that Asobo will fix the problem in the next update, as I have already mentioned.
Many obsolete PCs use MSFS, and selling is better than not selling, we will not have the details of a NASA PC, but we will still be able to play the game anyway.
Thank you

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12 hours ago, fanix1 said:

Many obsolete PCs use MSFS, and selling is better than not selling, we will not have the details of a NASA PC, but we will still be able to play the game anyway.

 

Sure and with every new add-on and every new update of the sim, it could go wrong. As long as you understand and accept that, fine!

But please do not complain when our products do not run on your system if your hardware is simply below what we (or Microsoft) lists.  In fact I strongly suggest you do not buy our software if you do not have the hardware. We will not refund for that reason.

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vor 1 hour , Capt Shark sagte:

In this case I might be the exception.  I have a i9 10900K and RTX 3080, 32GB RAM. 

 

oops. interesting. did you submit the ASInfo details to AS, see 

 

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I received information that a fix is being worked on. However, I can not tell you when this fix will be available and if it concerns all locations in the Flight Simulator code where BMI 2 instructions are used or just the aircraft loading.

Please understand that this is out of Aerosoft's hands now. We will neither be able to keep you updated about the progress of the fix nor when it will be available.

 

I requested a crash dump from Capt Shark in case there is another issue which concerns newer CPUs as well.

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