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Catchman86

Yoke Disconnect Sensitivity

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Is there a way to reconnect the autopilot?  I have tried each sensitivity setting and the autopilot automatically disconnects at the top of climb.  Pressing the autopilot button does nothing after the disconnect.  This happens regardless of whether I run the yoke input through FSUIPC or Prepar3d's controls.  I am using a Honeycomb yoke and CRJ Pro version 2.0.0.3. 

 

If there is not a way to reconnect the autopilot after the yoke sensitivity disconnect, is there a way I can turn off the yoke sensitivity disconnect itself?  Maybe changing something in a config or lua file?  I would rather it never disconnect than lose my autopilot as soon as I reach cruise. 

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I hope I understand your issue.

Have you found the "Autopilot Disconnect Yoke Sensitivity in the EFB Option pages?

 

vor 15 Stunden , Catchman86 sagte:

Pressing the autopilot button does nothing after the disconnect. 

Are you aware of this switch?

If the AP is disconnect you must  first move the swicht in upper position bevore you can engage "AP ENG" -

CRJ-AP.thumb.jpg.b7a7f54d98c74ad99e6a7a130cdf193d.jpg

 

Wolfgang

 

 

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I have tried both changing the yoke sensitivity settings in the EFB and recycling the AP Disc bar several times.  Neither allows me to re-engage the autopilot.  I have also attempted to clear any failure in the P3D menu that somehow may have been accidentally triggered (though not turned on).  I do appreciate you trying to help.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Hoffie3000 said:

I hope I understand your issue.

Have you found the "Autopilot Disconnect Yoke Sensitivity in the EFB Option pages?

 

Are you aware of this switch?

If the AP is disconnect you must  first move the swicht in upper position bevore you can engage "AP ENG" -

 

Wolfgang

 

 

 

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Here is an example screenshot from a test flight, the autopilot turned itself off right around FL180.  I cannot re-engage the autopilot no matter how many times I click AP ENG.

2020-3-23_10-58-40-952.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Catchman86 said:

Here is an example screenshot from a test flight, the autopilot turned itself off right around FL180.  I cannot re-engage the autopilot no matter how many times I click AP ENG.

2020-3-23_10-58-40-952.jpg

You Have no data in your FMC. Your flight plan appears to be a simple direct from one airport to another with no intermediate waypoints, there is no cruise altitude entered. (The empty white boxes in the lower right corner of the FMC). Without properly programming the FMC with a route, cruise altitude and performance data (passenger, cargo and fuel weights etc), the autopilot is unlikely to work correctly. 

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That's irrelevant when I am commanding the autopilot to climb at a set speed and on a certain heading.  I can assure you happens the same when I have a flight plan fully loaded into the FMC.

1 minute ago, JRBarrett said:

You Have no data in your FMC. Your flight plan appears to be a simple direct from one airport to another with no intermediate waypoints, there is no cruise altitude entered. (The empty white boxes in the lower right corner of the FMC). Without properly programming the FMC with a route, cruise altitude and performance data (passenger, cargo and fuel weights etc), the autopilot is unlikely to work correctly. 

 

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2 hours ago, Catchman86 said:

That's irrelevant when I am commanding the autopilot to climb at a set speed and on a certain heading.  I can assure you happens the same when I have a flight plan fully loaded into the FMC.

 

If it always disconnects at top of climb (but not before), I don’t think it’s a yoke sensitivity issue. While the real Proline 4 autopilot can be flown with no FMS guidance, (using HDG select, V/S and ALT SEL), I’m not sure the simulated CRJ will react properly if the FMS is not fully initialized.


In the real aircraft, PERF INIT must at least be entered, or FADEC thrust management won’t work correctly in a speed mode climb.

 

I also have a Honeycomb yoke, and have never had an uncommanded autopilot disconnect in dozens of flights with the CRJ Pro, so I have to believe it is something in your particular installation, but it would be difficult to say what exactly the problem might be.

 

I’d suggest a complete removal and reinstallation of the aircraft if you haven’t already tried that.

 

Check all your controller settings to be sure that there are no accidental assignments of axes or buttons to the pitch trim function, as any activation of manual trim will cause the autopilot to immediately disconnect. If the yaw damper, Mach trim or horizontal stab computer are disconnected, that will also disconnect the autopilot (and prevent re-connection), but loss of those systems would normally cause an amber CAS message to appear, and I don’t see any abnormal indications in that regard in your screen shot. 

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5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I’d suggest a complete removal and reinstallation of the aircraft if you haven’t already tried that.

Just did that -- no difference unfortunately.

 

5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

Check all your controller settings to be sure that there are no accidental assignments of axes or buttons to the pitch trim function, as any activation of manual trim will cause the autopilot to immediately disconnect.

Nothing is assigned in the P3D menu or FSUIPC.

 

5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

If the yaw damper, Mach trim or horizontal stab computer are disconnected, that will also disconnect the autopilot (and prevent re-connection), but loss of those systems would normally cause an amber CAS message to appear, and I don’t see any abnormal indications in that regard in your screen shot. 

I agree, no cautionary messages and resetting those systems makes no difference.  If I could just find a way to reset the autopilot then I wouldn't mind turning it back on after a disconnect--but it refuses to come back on.

 

Here's a shot if it occurring near TOC after a reinstallation.

 

2020-3-23_19-48-53-29.jpg

 

And later in the same flight, after hand flying cruise and decent, I was now able to turn the autopilot back on. 

 

 

2020-3-23_20-15-52-232.jpg

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Repeated autopilot disconnects mean that there's either a permanent input or massive signal noise on one axis. Please make sure that your input device causes neither.

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I think I may have found the cause, albeit not something I had initially suspected.   I programmed the physical switches on the Honeycomb yoke using the customized key press control within FSUIPC.  I think it works by causing a mouse click when you engage the physical button.  The below photo shows how I have the Honeycomb beacon switch programmed to turn on the CRJ beacon.

image.thumb.png.84d370b1b9cf560e24558228f728ca46.png

 

I would normally shut off the logo and recognition lights when passing FL180.  The autopilot would then kick off a few thousand feet later as described above.  If I do not touch the switches I programmed with the key press, then there is no autopilot interference and I can complete a flight with the autopilot through final approach.  That seems to be the root cause especially because none of my controls showed significant spiking.   Any idea why this could have throw an autopilot disconnect to the CRJ?

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Okay scratch the above.  I hit another disconnect and did more hunting.  Turns out that the Honeycomb yoke software was still sending button inputs somehow despite:

  • Disabling the yoke button/axis inputs in P3D
  • Closing the yoke software

Somehow the yoke was still applying the control inputs assigned to the last used profile, even though it was not apparent through the P3D menu showed no controls assigned to the yoke.  I fixed the problem by creating a new Honeycomb profile, within the Honeycomb software, with all buttons disabled.

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11 hours ago, Catchman86 said:

Okay scratch the above.  I hit another disconnect and did more hunting.  Turns out that the Honeycomb yoke software was still sending button inputs somehow despite:

  • Disabling the yoke button/axis inputs in P3D
  • Closing the yoke software

Somehow the yoke was still applying the control inputs assigned to the last used profile, even though it was not apparent through the P3D menu showed no controls assigned to the yoke.  I fixed the problem by creating a new Honeycomb profile, within the Honeycomb software, with all buttons disabled.

I have the Honeycomb yoke, and find it to be an excellent controller, but one thing I don’t like about it is that the row of buttons  on the main controller case (for various lights, and the ignition switch) are always sending a command. For instance, the one marked for nav lights sends one command when down in the “off” position and a different command when up in the “on” position. Should not be a problem as long as nothing is assigned to those switches, but I still prefer switches that send no signals unless actually pressed, like the various switches on the yoke itself used for trim, autopilot disconnect etc.

 

I have found that assignments can also get messed up if any USB controller inputs to the computer are changed to a different port than where they were plugged in when the initial assignments were defined. After a bad experience with computer damage from a nearby lightning strike a few years ago, I now make it a practice to disconnect the power cord and all input cables (sound, USB, ethernet etc) whenever I am going to be away from home during thunderstorm season.


One time I accidentally swapped two controller USB cables when hooking everything back up. I have a USB yoke, rudder pedals, and two throttle quadrants. The second quadrant (a Saitek three lever model) has flight spoilers assigned to one of the three levers. Because I accidentally plugged it in the wrong port, when I pulled the lever back to help slow down during descent after a long flight, I found that the lever was now assigned to ailerons! Needless to say, the results were not pretty. The aircraft rolled inverted before I realized what was happening...

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Hi guys, just to chime in on this:

On 30.3.2020 at 03:47, Catchman86 sagte:

Okay scratch the above.  I hit another disconnect and did more hunting.  Turns out that the Honeycomb yoke software was still sending button inputs somehow despite:

  • Disabling the yoke button/axis inputs in P3D
  • Closing the yoke software

Somehow the yoke was still applying the control inputs assigned to the last used profile, even though it was not apparent through the P3D menu showed no controls assigned to the yoke.  I fixed the problem by creating a new Honeycomb profile, within the Honeycomb software, with all buttons disabled.

This is expected behaviour, right now. The module that is being loaded by P3D translating the control assignments from the YokeInput software towards P3D doesn't know if something is assigned in P3D itself, or not. So, if there is a profile assigned via YokeInput you will see the results in the sim, regardless of the program running itself. Maybe this wasn't made clear enough, yet.

 

On 30.3.2020 at 14:48, JRBarrett sagte:

I have the Honeycomb yoke, and find it to be an excellent controller, but one thing I don’t like about it is that the row of buttons  on the main controller case (for various lights, and the ignition switch) are always sending a command. For instance, the one marked for nav lights sends one command when down in the “off” position and a different command when up in the “on” position. Should not be a problem as long as nothing is assigned to those switches, but I still prefer switches that send no signals unless actually pressed, like the various switches on the yoke itself used for trim, autopilot disconnect etc.

For clarification, please can you explain a litte more in detail what you're seeing and how, to discern if this is a software problem? Are you using the YokeInput utility with a profile loaded? Are you seeing constantly commands being sent to the sim, regardless of the switch being used, or not? How do you measure that the Yoke buttons are constanly sending those signals?

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4 hours ago, BenBaron said:

Hi guys, just to chime in on this:

This is expected behaviour, right now. The module that is being loaded by P3D translating the control assignments from the YokeInput software towards P3D doesn't know if something is assigned in P3D itself, or not. So, if there is a profile assigned via YokeInput you will see the results in the sim, regardless of the program running itself. Maybe this wasn't made clear enough, yet.

 

For clarification, please can you explain a litte more in detail what you're seeing and how, to discern if this is a software problem? Are you using the YokeInput utility with a profile loaded? Are you seeing constantly commands being sent to the sim, regardless of the switch being used, or not? How do you measure that the Yoke buttons are constanly sending those signals?

 

In my case, I don’t use the Honeycomb driver software or any profiles. I use the Win 10 USB controller directly. 


I define all switch assignments on the yoke directly in the P3D controller menu, insuring that only switches I actually want to use have assignments. Not having any problems myself, I just wanted to caution the OP that some of the switches are always sending state, even when “off”.
 

The light switches, ignition switch, and battery/alternator switches are two-state. They send a “switch closed” indication when “up”, and a different “switch closed” indication when “down”. It has nothing to do with software - it is strictly a hardware situation. These are simply SPDT (single pole, double throw) switches.
 

You can see the switch state by looking at the yoke in the Windows controller menu. The switches mentioned are always sending either an “up” or “down” indication.

 

This is not a problem as long as none of the “active” switch states are assigned to something inadvertently in FSX or P3D. 
 

By contrast, there are four switches on the yoke itself (one red, and three white) which are SPST-NO (single pole, single throw, normally open). These send no indication at all unless pressed. (I use the red button for autopilot disconnect). The split trim switches are also double pole, but they send nothing when in the center position.

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I've just had a look myself out of interest and you are right. Thanks Jim for the clarification that this is then really rooted in the hardware itself and not attributed to the software.

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