Cannot capture glideslope on tutorial flight

[peewit 0]

Hi

I have the Aerosoft Airbus extended v1.04 with FSX Gold on a fast Win 7 pc.

I am flying the suggested A320-214 with sharlets on the tutorial flight from Frankfurt to Vienna.

When I fly the tutorial flight,right from cold and dark, I am following the tutorial procedure with cockpit checklists fully in use.

On approach, I am deploying the flaps and pressing the Localiser button at the correct time, selecting both autopilots, etc., with the co-pilot doing his bit, however, the glidescope is never captured and the aircraft just keeps flying on at 5000ft.

What should I be doing to avoid this problem ?

I have also noticed that the step by step guide is full of errors (that I would be willing to correct) and that the feature for saving a user state will often non respond. On the odd occasion, I have been able to load a previously saved user state, it often results in strange behaviour such as the same short audio element of a checklist and it's response being played over and over, continuously.

Overall, I am happy with the product, but it would be nice to land at Vienna rather than just keep flying over the runway.

Peewit

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

You know a lot about the AXE already, for sure, congrats on your spot-on description!

Excuse me asking a stupid question: Do you press only the LOC button or also the APPR button? And is the G/S indication showing your AXE "above" or "below" the G/S? (asking since 5.000 ft seems too high for a G/S intercept ALT)

EDIT: 5.000 ft is perfectly o.k. for this particular approach, I had a more "generic" approach in mind, my bad.

If APPR is armed, too, before the G/S intercept with your AXE from below, a screenshot in that very situation, displaying the PFD and the FCU, would help us a lot in helping you - thanks!

[--- 170]

Another IRL item.... Once you are cleared for the approach you press the APPR button at once followed by the second AP button, there's absolutely no need to push the LOC button first or to delay the engagement of the second AP.

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

Another IRL item.... Once you are cleared for the approach you press the APPR button at once followed by the second AP button, there's absolutely no need to push the LOC button first or to delay the engagement of the second AP.

Peewit stating that both A/Ps are engaged needs the APPR armed as a prerequisite anyway - so that APPR probably isn't the main culprit of his problem anyway, right? Or would the AXE allow the 2nd A/P to engage without APPR being armed before?

[peewit 0]

OK thanks.

I tried again today to land at Vienna but just managed another 5000ft flyover.

I have attached a couple of files.

The first one you will recognise as it is the ILS chart from your step by step tutorial showing the planned capture of the G/S at 5000ft.

The second is a screenshot taken just after we had flown over WW670 (where we should see the G/S) on approach to LOWW.

At no stage did I see any magenta diamonds in the G/S part of the PFD as we flew through the expected G/S. The co-pilot did not mention it's capture either.

I guess I must be missing out some obvious step. Can you see what it is ?

At this basic stage I am not using any ATC.

Peewit

[solentflyer 3]

I am also experiencing this issue, having followed the tutorial flight to the letter and having both checklist and co-pilot options engaged throughout the flight.

The flight goes perfectly right up to the point where you're expecting the LOC and/or APPR mode to engage. They go to ARMED state but unfortunately never engage, meaning the aircraft sails by the runway at 5000ft.

One other thing I've noticed is that occasionally the Before Takeoff checklist doesn't automatically kick in as expected when approaching the runway holding point (this seems to be the only one that doesn't). As a result, none of the subsequent checklists run either. I know this has been reported previously and would like to know if this is something that has been fixed in the forthcoming service pack? The addition of a manual override would be useful so that the next checklist can be called up manually if it doesn't start automatically for any reason.

Best regards,

Dennis

[rjord 86]

When you have captured the glide slope do you leave the altitude knob at 5000 or do you lower it down to say 2500. I suspect you are staying at 5000 feet because you are not lowering your altitude .

Am a bit concerned that there is no sign of the magenta diamonds which suggests you did not capture the glide slope . Are you entering the correct ILS frequency and course in the RAD/NAV screen?

Roy

[peewit 0]

I,ve just added this closeup photo. It seems to show the ILS correctly tuned (it does this automatically some how) and is correct on the RAD/NAV page.

Just no magenta diamonds. I was fancying a bier in Vienna (not before flying though).

peewit

[Joshua Che. 1601]

Okay,

Do you have Fly Tampa Vienna Installed or some other addons installed?

The MCDU which autotunes the radio uses the radio frequencies from a latest database. If your airport is outdated (just default airports), there is a likelihood that you may not get the ILS signal as the frequency for the default airport might be old one.

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

I,ve just added this closeup photo. It seems to show the ILS correctly tuned (it does this automatically some how) and is correct on the RAD/NAV page.

Just no magenta diamonds. I was fancying a bier in Vienna (not before flying though).

peewit

To me the "left" frequency in your screenshot - PFD, left lower corner - looks like a VOR freq, but not like an ILS freq.

So, with Joshua on my mind Joshua's suggestion in my mind, please look up the ILS freq for your landing runway from your FSX scenery (map view from the sim menu). That gives you the freq needed to have the LOC and G/S indications show up on your PFD.

With that freq in your mind you have two options (I prefer #2):

1) Let the AXE autotune freq's and compare the autotuned left freq against the one you noted from your scenery. These should be identical from 20 to 25 nm out of your destination. If they're not, your scenery is older than the navaid database of the AXE.

2) Manually enter the ILS freq from your scenery into the left receiver of your AXE. Now you're overriding the AXE navaid database, so now the LOC and G/S indications MUST show up on your PFD (aircraft correctly positioned and within, say, 25 nm or less from LOWW).

If 2) doesn't solve your problem we're still missing a step. In that case: More descriptions, more "screenies"; your last one couldn't be zoomed as well as the other ones; the former screenie format you used was more suitable.

And, BTW, in the AXE forum, we say beer or bear, but never bier (PM me if you need an explanation for that one, lol!)

[peewit 0]

Many thanks

I do not have Fly Tampa Vienna or any other addons.

As it happens, I just landed in Vienna and had that 'beer' :-)

The earlier post made me question the frequency setting, and looking at the Vienna ILS chart in the step by step tutorial it is OEZ/108.5

At 54. in the step by step tutorial it says to put FFM into RAD/NAV without any kind of explanation. In fact FFM is a VOR near Vienna.

As it is this VOR frequency that was on my screenshot, I decided to try again but ignoring FFM and using OEZ. This put the correct ILS frequency of 108.5 in.

This time everything went as expected and the magenta diamonds displayed.

OK the flaps seemed to go to stage 1 early causing an overspeed, but maybe this was because I initiated the "Approach" phase on the MCDU at about 7000ft and maybe this was too high.

Anyway, I landed safe and progress was made so thanks for your help.

This sure is a steep learning curve but at least the bottom rung of the ladder has been reached.

peewit

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

You worked hard with the manual before you asked for support here. So you deserved some degree of assistance, for sure.

FFM is a VOR (or a DME, don't know exactly) near EDDF and since the tutorial tells you to enter it manually, Aerosoft for sure will check, whether they need to add some clarification on deleting that manual entry during the ongoing of the tutorial flight.

To lower the first notch of flaps, depending on weight, you probably need to be in approach phase before (maintaining green dot speed). If your AXE is really heavy, green dot would be even higher, which makes it more difficult to set CONFIG 1(+F).

Easiest approach is, to have a moderately laden AXE with just a sensible amount of fuel, so you can activate APPR first and easily lower flaps one by one.

You're good to go with your own flight and please feel free to ask some more while "climbing Peewit's ladder" ... (this is geared to OZ and Huey Lewis a.t.n. more than to religion!)

[--- 170]

After take off at FL100 you copy the the active flight plan and delete any manual entries in the RAD NAV page (that way AXE can auto tune the correct ILS frequency)

Nevertheless this is a really serious bug in AXE!!!!!!!! A manually tuned VOR in the RAD NAV page does not influence the automatic internal setting of the correct ILS frequency IRL !!!

A lot of ILS don't have an associated DME so IRL it's important to set a VOR into the RAD NAV page for a useable DME readout.

Presently this is not possible in AXE.

Even worse, AXE can't distinguish between a VOR and an ILS frequency.

These two are definitely very important items that need to be fixed for SP1 as it is next to impossible to fly an ILS approach without any DME !!!!!!

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

Grab a bear ... ;-)

After take off at FL100 you copy the the active flight plan and delete any manual entries in the RAD NAV page (that way AXE can auto tune the correct ILS frequency)

Nevertheless this is a really serious bug in AXE!!!!!!!! A manually tuned VOR in the RAD NAV page does not influence the automatic internal setting of the correct ILS frequency IRL !!!

It's a FSX limitation, Aerosoft so far has chosen not to work around.

A lot of ILS don't have an associated DME so IRL it's important to set a VOR into the RAD NAV page for a useable DME readout.

Presently this is not possible in AXE.

VOR2 could be tuned to a DME. Makes setting navaids for G/A's even worse, though.

Even worse, AXE can't distinguish between a VOR and an ILS frequency.

See above, limitation/workaround.

These two are definitely very important items that need to be fixed for SP1 as it is next to impossible to fly an ILS approach without any DME !!!!!!

I second that! If PMDG is able to implement this (3 autotuned receivers on the 744, for example) ... why shouldn't Joshua et.al.?!?

[Joshua Che. 1601]

I second that! If PMDG is able to implement this (3 autotuned receivers on the 744, for example) ... why shouldn't Joshua et.al.?!?

You answered your own question. "It's a FSX limitation, Aerosoft so far has chosen not to work around" Why shouldn't I, because we are not PMDG?

In all seriousness this will not make it into SP1, we will only start thinking about after SP1 features after SP1 is released.

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

You answered your own question. "It's a FSX limitation, Aerosoft so far has chosen not to work around" Why shouldn't I, because we are not PMDG?

In all seriousness this will not make it into SP1, we will only start thinking about after SP1 features after SP1 is released.

Hope my post was clear in this respect? If PMDG can do it, Joshua et. al. can do it, too. (That's about ability and capability)

Must admit, in conjunction with the original post I replied to, it sounds like my feature request for SP1, too. Agreed, totally impossible at this stage. Possible only after SP1. It would support all those advanced features you're putting into the FMGS, though.

And now, Joshua, let's grab ...

[peewit 0]

What the heck is "Bumping" a topic. So much to learn.

Flying a real spamcan was easier.

peewit

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

What the heck is "Bumping" a topic. So much to learn.

Flying a real spamcan was easier.

peewit

bumping = reminding of = bringing up again, just in case, your opening post gets overlooked.

[Hanse 216]

Hi

I have the Aerosoft Airbus extended v1.04 with FSX Gold on a fast Win 7 pc.

I am flying the suggested A320-214 with sharlets on the tutorial flight from Frankfurt to Vienna.

When I fly the tutorial flight,right from cold and dark, I am following the tutorial procedure with cockpit checklists fully in use.

On approach, I am deploying the flaps and pressing the Localiser button at the correct time, selecting both autopilots, etc., with the co-pilot doing his bit, however, the glidescope is never captured and the aircraft just keeps flying on at 5000ft.

What should I be doing to avoid this problem ?

I have also noticed that the step by step guide is full of errors (that I would be willing to correct) and that the feature for saving a user state will often non respond. On the odd occasion, I have been able to load a previously saved user state, it often results in strange behaviour such as the same short audio element of a checklist and it's response being played over and over, continuously.

Overall, I am happy with the product, but it would be nice to land at Vienna rather than just keep flying over the runway.

Peewit

Hi Peewit,

1. You are writing that the glidescope has not been caught respectively displayed. Did you see in the ND lower left corner below VOR1 = OEZ and a distance? Or what do you see. Is it maybe FFM and a distance? Then you set the departure VOR accidentily to VOR 1 instead of VOR2 as discribed in the tutorial. Did you have a look into the MCDU RADIO page? There also in VOR 1 (left side) OEZ and 108.50 should be displayed.

2. Regarding mistakes in the tutorial please tell me which mistakes you found and which version you are referring to (1.04 is the current valid version).

3. A user state only should be saved (if you want to use it with the checklist functionality) after one checklist has been finished and the next one is available. Please see chapter 3.5 of the StepbyStep Guide.

[peewit 0]

Hi Hanse

My step by step tutorial is Version 06-01-03.

When first using the simulator I followed the steps to the letter (often having no idea what it all meant).

Item 54 said :-

54.
RAD NAV: Please enter FFM into the scratchpad and then press LSK1R. Entering FFM results in duplicate entries. So please select the “nearest” one = LSK 1L.

It did not have any real meaning for me at the time. I think this is the only mention of the radio page.

Obviously this setting caused me to overfly LOWW several times and almost give up.

A hint from another forum member caused me to go in and delete the ILS entry on the radio page when just before TOD. Then I was able to land.

I will try to remember that there is set of rules that inhibit you from saving a user state at various times.

Peewit

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

(...)

54.

RAD NAV: Please enter FFM into the scratchpad and then press LSK1R. Entering FFM results in duplicate entries. So please select the “nearest” one = LSK 1L.

It did not have any real meaning for me at the time. I think this is the only mention of the radio page.

Obviously this setting caused me to overfly LOWW several times and almost give up.

A hint from another forum member caused me to go in and delete the ILS entry on the radio page when just before TOD. Then I was able to land.

(...)

O.k. this is the root for some misunderstanding:

LSK1R, in the context of the tutorial, is related to the VOR2 (right receiver). This is NOT related to the AXE ILS.

LSK1L, in this context, is related to a list of possible VORs that could be entered, depending on whether you chose to alter the left or the right VOR before (per the manual you are supposed to choose the right one as per clicking LSK1R first of all further actions).

You mistakenly interpreted the mentioning of LSK1L as related to the left VOR (which is the AXE ILS at the same time, thereby blocking the ILS radio from receiving the ILS signal).

Those things just happen. Not a big deal ...

[Hanse 216]

Hi,

• The current tutorial version is 06-01-04 i. e. the one you are referring to is not the valid one.....
• In #54 of the version 06-01-03 it states: Please enter FFM into the scratchpad and then press LSK1R. Entering FFM results in duplicate entries. So please select the “nearest” one = LSK 1L. This means if you enter FFM into VOR 2 (LSK1R) there are two FFM's available in the navigation DB and they are automatically displayed on a new page showing also the disctance to your current position. Then just select the first one which is the nearest availbale to your current position (LSK1L).
• This has no influence to the ILS tuning for which we currently also use VOR1. If you selected the right runway for LOWW = ILS16 (please see the last 9 lines of #53 how to do this) then nothing should be done addtionally because the frequency will automatically set and tuned in if you are near LOWW. Then under VOR1 on the lower left corner of the ND you should see OEZ and the distance to the runway. On the radio page of the MCDU under ILS / FREQ it should read 108.5 and the course of 161.

If there is something different on you system (like explained above) then it is a mishandling or something is wrong with you installation.

Regards,

Hanse

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

Pssssst, Hanse, LSK1R is even mentioned in peewit's version of the tutorial, he's quoting it himself, compare his post (accentuation is mine):

Hi Hanse

My step by step tutorial is Version 06-01-03.

When first using the simulator I followed the steps to the letter (often having no idea what it all meant).

Item 54 said :-

54.
RAD NAV: Please enter FFM into the scratchpad and then press LSK1R. Entering FFM results in duplicate entries. So please select the “nearest” one = LSK 1L.

It did not have any real meaning for me at the time. I think this is the only mention of the radio page.

Obviously this setting caused me to overfly LOWW several times and almost give up.

A hint from another forum member caused me to go in and delete the ILS entry on the radio page when just before TOD. Then I was able to land.

I will try to remember that there is set of rules that inhibit you from saving a user state at various times.

Peewit

This gives you, peewit, two different descriptions for the same issue. Hanse's description seems clearer than mine, I must admit ...

[OY-VKS 21]

Or in short... If shooting an ILS approach. DO NOT insert anything in LSK1L. As it will overwrite the ILS Freq selected. Only insert other relevant VORs in LSK1R. As stated in the manual if there are duplicate database entries, selecet the first one by pressing LSK1L on the Duplicate Entries Page... J Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829]

Turning in circles ...

Or in short... If shooting an ILS approach. DO NOT insert anything in LSK1L. As it will overwrite the ILS Freq selected. Only insert other relevant VORs in LSK1R. As stated in the manual if there are duplicate database entries, selecet the first one by pressing LSK1L on the Duplicate Entries Page... J Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

... which is true as long as you can confirm that your 'FSX scenery database' fits the AXE RW navaid database.

If an ILS gets "updated" in RW (new frequency) after FSX RTM the old freq is reflected in FSX scenery and the new RW freq is reflected in the - current-at-its-inital-release - AXE RW database (see Joshua's post). If these two freqs differ, the AXE can't receive the ILS signal. (Even newer RW freqs, newer than the AXE navaid database, wouldn't cause this issue, though. If FSX scenery gets updated by an addon airport, this issue probably wouldn't arise, either.)

To make sure the signal is received, the freq from the FSX scenery can be inserted (that's manually) into the ILS entries on the left hand side of the AXE's MCDU's RAD NAV page.

Bottom line:

To assure an autoland insert ILS frequency from scenery manually into left hand side receiver. ILS autotuning will work more often than not, but you have to be prepared to enter the ILS frequency in time if autotuning fails.

EDIT: RW vs. simulated world differences added to increase confusion. 3rd party airport sceneries aspects added to create even more confusion. Bottom line added to finally maximize confusion.