614 replies to this topic

[J.Schweigler]

A small video at the end of the week

note the smooth transition between the graphical stages of the rotor without loading any additional texture. All completely smooth. You can still see all movements of the blades ih high rpm state. It makes a really nice effect when the sun lights one of the blades :-)
Incredible, how many animations are in this simple rotor.

We have:

1st: the control rods cyclic
2nd: the control rod pitch (wich controlls a bushing on the rotorshaft and mixes the cyclic controls with the collective
3rd: this bushing (with mixerarms)
4th: the swashplate fix base
5th: the swashplates rotating ring wich gives the cyclic controls to the mixer
6th: the two large controlrods wich go to the mixer in the stabilizer bar. (mixed cyclic and collective controls already depending on position of the rotor)
7th: the rotor RPM (with this, the position of the rotor)
8th; the control rods to the blade connectiors wich are mounted on the central rotorhead.
9th: the central rotorhead wich is able to tilt too. (depending on rotor position)
10th: The flexing blades for slow (witch all bending involved weight of the blades lift and so on)
11th: the fexing blades for fast (witch all bending involved weight of the blades lift and so on)
12th: several visibility tags for several stages of the rotor.

Sounds quiet easy, doesn't it?

of course the spool up will be slower ;-) This is only for showing

 takeoff2.wmv   8.49MB   1398 Number of downloads

Best regards, Joachim

[Robert S]

A small video at the end of the week

note the smooth transition between the graphical stages of the rotor without loading any additional texture. All completely smooth. You can still see all movements of the blades ih high rpm state. It makes a really nice effect when the sun lights one of the blades :-)

of course the spool up will be slower ;-) This is only for showing

 takeoff2.wmv   8.49MB   1398 Number of downloads

Best regards, Joachim

LOL, I know this is of course only a preview video but it is still funny to see it take off without a tail rotor or pilot in either seat!

Well done so far Joachim. I think this will end up being a HUGELY successful product for Aerosoft as this helo has such a long service history, is used worldwide (both military and civilian) and has so many applications.

[slipstream]

Nice project, but I am still amazed that their has never, ever, in the history of FS, been a payware version of the mighty CH47. Some developer team somewhere will switch on one day and produce one i'm sure.

[MCDesigns]

Nice project, but I am still amazed that their has never, ever, in the history of FS, been a payware version of the mighty CH47. Some developer team somewhere will switch on one day and produce one i'm sure.

Actually there was. The LZ (now closed) had several versions of the Chinook for around $7 each for FS2002/2004. I agree though, a payware FSX version would be very welcome in my hanger. You can get a freeware FSX native one at UKMil.

[J.Schweigler]

[slipstream]

Actually there was. The LZ (now closed) had several versions of the Chinook for around $7 each for FS2002/2004. I agree though, a payware FSX version would be very welcome in my hanger. You can get a freeware FSX native one at UKMil.

Yeh I flew the LZ's version but it was hardly up to aerosofts standard. Hint Hint.

[Mathijs Kok]

Note that that engine with the mesh in front of it is not not one clever bitmap. It really is a mesh with something behind it. So when you viewpoint moves, it will move.

[Lennart B.]

Keeps amazing me!

[Skwinty]

So when will we be able to purchase already!!!

[Shaun Fletcher]

Hello Skwinty,

Its not quite in Beta yet so will not be for a little while yet..

[Skwinty]

Hi Sean,
I would like to volunteer to be a beta tester. I think I am quite good at finding problems.
You just have to read my post about the Seahawk and shipyard.
I am not offering this to get a free download, I will still buy the Huey.
At least then I would have nothing to complain about once I bought it.
Regards
Skwinty

[ChrisB]

Thank you :-), here is a short video of the rotorhead animation.

Really short, only to make appetite ;-)

Of course there are missing some parts, and don't look at the strange colored things

Hmmm... I do realise this is alpha. The input rods to the swashplate are not connected (yet?) and there is something about this and the other (later) video that I can't put my fingers on yet. It's looking darned good though. It all has to do with Bell idiosyncracies and their rotor head design. Still, I have bags of time to check my training notes.

It's that "If it looks too good, there must be something wring" principle at work... Probably nothing.

[Shaun Fletcher]

Hi Sean,
I would like to volunteer to be a beta tester. I think I am quite good at finding problems.
You just have to read my post about the Seahawk and shipyard.
I am not offering this to get a free download, I will still buy the Huey.
At least then I would have nothing to complain about once I bought it.
Regards
Skwinty

Hello Skwinty,

Need to contact J.Schweigler about joining the beta for the Huey

[Mathijs Kok]

Was time for another update on the Huey so you can follow progress. And as you will agree there was good progress. We also decided (capitulated more precisely) on how we will handle the flight dynamics. There are several options but all three possibilities that FSX has to offer got their own particular flaws. We are sure however that flying the helicopter will be as realistic as possible. The help from the German Army and other people who fly or flown these whirlybirds is a guarantee for that.

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[Alexander Barger]

I never flown Helicopters, but I think will give it a try maybe, since I shortly bought Rudderpedals. Well, let's see.

Looks good so far

[Robert S]

I never flown Helicopters, but I think will give it a try maybe, since I shortly bought Rudderpedals. Well, let's see.

Looks good so far

Flying helicopters in FSX is like trying to balance a spinning plate on a stick - it's tricky to learn at first but once you get the hang of it you will be addicted! Try flying the default Jetranger in FSX for some practice, but the Huey is one of the most easily "flyable" helicopters in the world!

[Pascal Leclercq]

We are sure however that flying the helicopter will be as realistic as possible. The help from the German Army and other people who fly or flown these whirlybirds is a guarantee for that.

That sounds promising. So would you say your Huey will have more realistic flight dynamics than the Nemeth huey?

[Mathijs Kok]

That sounds promising. So would you say your Huey will have more realistic flight dynamics than the Nemeth huey?

Different. I would not use realistic and MSFS in the same sentence regarding helicopter flight models. The simple fact is that the engine type the Huey uses is very much flawed in FSX (and FS2004 and FS2002 etc). We can get the startup procedure right but then the engine power delivery is not okay ect. We can use some of the new items introduced by the Xpack and loose 85% of our customer base, there just is not a solid answer.

I claim the flight model of the Twin Otter we done is ok. I claim the flight model of the Catalina is pretty good. I claim the flight model of our Discus Glider X is one of the best ever done. But in this case it will be as good as FSX can deliver. And that's limited. We can get it spot on in one area but it will be flawed in other sections and vise versa. Some people will tell you different (NOT aiming at Nemeth here btw), that's fine. But we'll tell you that it sure will be as good as our test pilots who fly this chopper think it can be. But the fact is that we are working on a very flawed platform in this regard. All serious companies will tell you the same. For example PMDG that faced the same problems recently. They ended with a very good aircraft, we can only hope to do the same under the same conditions.

[Mathijs Kok]

Flying helicopters in FSX is like trying to balance a spinning plate on a stick - it's tricky to learn at first but once you get the hang of it you will be addicted! Try flying the default Jetranger in FSX for some practice, but the Huey is one of the most easily "flyable" helicopters in the world!

The 22 is a much better model to experiment with. Do stick to moderate realism settings though, as they are way more realistic then the highest settings.

[TWHH]

That sounds promising. So would you say your Huey will have more realistic flight dynamics than the Nemeth huey?

I´m sure the flight dynamics will be all right - at least ist is an Aerosoft Product! What about a sound teaser? Must admit, that a smashing (realistic) sound (and looks) for me are more important than 100% realistic flight dynamics. Reason is, that i often saw, heard and admired those Hueys - but never have flown one (neither abled, nor allowed) - so that is the point, where i could not tell the difference between good and perfect simulation. Spending a lot of time near a hospital where those Hueys used to land and start several times a day i know -and love- the sound. ( i was working there, not Heli spotting!!!)
Kind regard,
Torsten

[J.Schweigler]

The 22 is a much better model to experiment with. Do stick to moderate realism settings though, as they are way more realistic then the highest settings.

I would recommend the Bell26 because the R22 has a to slow collective controll in FSX.
It is nearly impossible to maintain a stable hovering flight or a transition between forward flight and hovering.

Regarding the flight dynamics,
Mathijs is right. To mention FSX and a realistic helicopter flignt model in one sentence is a no go. At least with standard sollutions. But we have a very good fligh model expert (John Cagle who has done the Discus flight models) and some picky testers who have flowen the real thing.
We will do it as real as possible of course.

Best regards Joachim

[J.Schweigler]

Hey Folks,

One of my betatesters and I got a chance to fly the UH1D in a full mission simulator of the Heeresfliegerwaffenschule in Bueckeburg.
Though we have limited time, we will get a very nice feeling of the real Huey, and of course we will try to put this feeling into our Huey simulation.

It is always a great advantage to have the chance of flying the real aircraft.

So in the end there are 3 people involved with hueyexperience. This should guarantee the most real feeling, FSX is able to handle.

Cheers Joachim

[clay]

Those shots of the guns...any chance they will be able to be fired?

[J.Schweigler]

No, they will even not be in the pakage.

Bests Joachim

[Wildbird]

Mathijs is right. To mention FSX and a realistic helicopter flignt model in one sentence is a no go. At least with standard sollutions.

So please, why not apply some non-standard solutions? Certainly with Aerosofts talented people it should be possible, when a two man team built what is the standard of realistic sim helicopters today.

[Dylan]

So please, why not apply some non-standard solutions? Certainly with Aerosofts talented people it should be possible, when a two man team built what is the standard of realistic sim helicopters today.

Well atleast its gonna be great for screenshots

[Wildbird]

Well atleast its gonna be great for screenshots

Haha, not good enough anymore. Especially now that there is already one nice looking Huey recently released, and there are two Hueys coming up that both look great. Unfortunately for Aerosoft the other upcoming Huey will have most systems and dynamics fully simulated. I had hoped that more companies would put more effort into flight dynamics now, instead of keep repeating that it's impossible. There's no reason for releasing aircraft that do not behave like aircraft, imagine someone doing that on a fixed wing... There's always the expense of building workarounds to get a helicopter to work, but if you can't do that don't say you've made a helicopter that is as realistic as can be.

[Shaun Fletcher]

Hello Wildbird,

Depends on what your definition of realistic as can be is, if you are only given certain tools to play with and certain parameters to work in then yes it as realistic as can be.
Its also been proven that when you start trying to be clever and do certain workarounds it can indeed have its consequences on your sim.
I remember such an instance when you loaded a certain companies aircraft and then loaded the Tornado I believe the whole sim crashed due to something "Special" they had tried doing. I'm not saying this is the case all the times with everyone but when you go off the beaten track sometimes you can expect to have consequences.

[Mathijs Kok]

So please, why not apply some non-standard solutions? Certainly with Aerosofts talented people it should be possible, when a two man team built what is the standard of realistic sim helicopters today.

Let's just see what our esteemed competitors come up with, okay? We got a very good guy on the flight models and we find that a lot of parameters used for helicopters are just not correct and they can not be corrected. For starters the simple fact the engine type is totally flawed. Even PMDG had to jump through hoops to get it more or less faked correctly (just as we are doing).

Making a realistic flight model for helicopters in FSX is a joke. Anybody who tells you different has not tried to make one. Now saying that does not mean you can't get a flight model that feels okay (and who has flown a Huey, right?) and behaves as good as FSX can do it. But we rather be honest about what we can deliver.

[Wildbird]

Let's just see what our esteemed competitors come up with, okay? We got a very good guy on the flight models and we find that a lot of parameters used for helicopters are just not correct and they can not be corrected. For starters the simple fact the engine type is totally flawed. Even PMDG had to jump through hoops to get it more or less faked correctly (just as we are doing).

Making a realistic flight model for helicopters in FSX is a joke. Anybody who tells you different has not tried to make one. Now saying that does not mean you can't get a flight model that feels okay (and who has flown a Huey, right?) and behaves as good as FSX can do it. But we rather be honest about what we can deliver.

So all those people who fly helicopters in real life and say that the Dodo 206 is miles ahead of any other addon don't know what they are talking about? No disrespect ment, but it seems like you are busy saying it is impossible, while your esteemed competitors are jumping through the hoops to fake everything right. I haven't got many hours in a helicopter, but I know one thing, flying anything else than the D206 gets boring the moment I pull the collective. Or way before that if I am doing the startup myself. But I'll try to remember that it is impossible and dishonest next time I enter a vortex ring state because I have descended too fast without enough forward speed, or doing something as simple as to compensate with the pedals when I use the collective. Or am I missing your point somehow?

And I see Mr. Fletcher's point, but considering how few problems there actually are (I haven't had any yet, and the support forums seem to be very quiet.), I'm more than willing to restart FSX between changing aircraft if two addons conflict. It's worth the two minutes.

[MCDesigns]

I happen to agree with Wildbird, instead of saying "Making a realistic flight model for helicopters in FSX is a joke" why not just admit you guys don't want to invest the time and energy into trying to emulate what the DoDosim guys have done with their 206 (which I can understand from a business POV). You guys have the chance to learn from 2 other heli developers to give the customer what they want. The Milviz/ND huey is a beautiful model, but it too heavy on the frames for many, the upcoming DoDo huey will be systems rich with the option to also just get up and go, but the visual model from what has been posted with be more basic, so there is a niche in between that can be filled.
I can understand if the developer doesn't have the knowledge to do what the doDosim guys have done, so there is no harm in stating as such or at least looking into the possibilities.

[Mathijs Kok]

I happen to agree with Wildbird, instead of saying "Making a realistic flight model for helicopters in FSX is a joke" why not just admit you guys don't want to invest the time and energy into trying to emulate what the DoDosim guys have done with their 206 (which I can understand from a business POV). You guys have the chance to learn from 2 other heli developers to give the customer what they want. The Milviz/ND huey is a beautiful model, but it too heavy on the frames for many, the upcoming DoDo huey will be systems rich with the option to also just get up and go, but the visual model from what has been posted with be more basic, so there is a niche in between that can be filled.
I can understand if the developer doesn't have the knowledge to do what the doDosim guys have done, so there is no harm in stating as such or at least looking into the possibilities.

Hold it, where have we said that we will not do as good as Dodo did it? I fully agree there flight modeling is if not the best, certainly among the best. But the simple fact is that FSX lacks a lot of parameters you need for a realistic helicopter flight model and for has massive problems in the modeling of the engine used in the Huey. You can be the Einstein of simming but you can't 'invent' these parameters. If you call what Dodo has done realistic, we don't have an argument about what we are doing, but a different definition of realism. You can get around a lot of the problems by faking what the instruments show (as FSX just gives nonsense). But all these things means that you get nowhere the realism we had in the Catalina or the Discuss glider for example.

We have discussed the problems with the turboprop engine modeling in FSX with some of the best people in the field. PMDG for example who spend months on that for their last aircraft. They say it is flawed like hell and that you got to fake a lot. We thought it could not be that bad, but it really is, the way MS done it can be best described as a jet engine powering a piston prop. As said you can tweak it so the result behaves okay in the most common settings, but you always going to run into problems in the low end or the high end of the power ranges. It also means you are going to have to loose a lot of compatibility with control hardware, fuel use is whacked and you got to either redo the whole fuel system or accept that what your fuel gauges show is not the same as the helicopter actually has on board (and that affects how it flies). It's one long string of problems you only have with turboprop and that are made bigger by putting it in a chopper.

So it's a matter of definition. I call a model with all these work around not very realistic and it can never be correct in the complete flight envelope and the complete power band of the engine. We choose not to call that realistic for the simple reason it just does net get to the same level of realism we got in other models. If we call the flight and engine model of the Huey realistic, what would we need to call the much more realistic flight model of other products we do? Hyper realistic? I'm not really into these terms. We do it as good as we can, withing the limitations. And that results in something that will closely resample the real Huey (we fly the real one a lot to compare what we got).

As I said, let's just wait until we are done and then we'll compare, okay?

[Wildbird]

I don't get why workarounds are unrealistic, but okay, we can do that. But if it will be as realistic as the Dodo, does that mean that your Huey will act like a helicopter? This is the deal or no deal for me, not engine or instrument problems.

And I trust you to make Aerosofts possible flightsim very capable when it comes to helicopters as well as fixed wing.

[J.Schweigler]

It will act like a helicopter as far as FSX allowes it to do.

[Andy B.]

Shame it wont be as complex a flight model as the DODOSIM B206 for FSX then because that does things that the FSX engine doesn't allow, things like;
Torque-Induced Yaw
Transverse Flow Effect
Flap Back
Translating Tendency
Dis-symmetry of Lift
Vortex Ring State : very scary when it happens and great when you manage to recover from it without leaving a smoking hole.
Loss of Tail Rotor Effectiveness
Retreating Blade Stall
Tail wind effect on Horizontal Stabiliser
And that's just the aerodynamics..

[J.Schweigler]

Please stop comparing a not existing thing with annother one.
It doesn't help!

[James A]

Shame it wont be as complex a flight model as the DODOSIM B206 for FSX then because that does things that the FSX engine doesn't allow, things like;
Torque-Induced Yaw
Transverse Flow Effect
Flap Back
Translating Tendency
Dis-symmetry of Lift
Vortex Ring State : very scary when it happens and great when you manage to recover from it without leaving a smoking hole.
Loss of Tail Rotor Effectiveness
Retreating Blade Stall
Tail wind effect on Horizontal Stabiliser
And that's just the aerodynamics..

Does it do gearbox failure? If it does I'd like them to send me a free copy for evaluation.

[Andy B.]

Please stop comparing a not existing thing with annother one.
It doesn't help!

It helps me decide if I want to purchase a product or not when it comes out, what wrong with trying to find out that information, surely you must know what's possible within the confines on the FSX only engine by now, or is this product still a very long way from release?

Does it do gearbox failure?

I probably shouldn't be saying anymore on this subject as it may be deemed as advertising another developers product, so please feel free to delete if it goes against your rules.

Aircraft systems will fail according to misuse. This may take several flights as wear slowly increases. Oil temperatures and pressures degrade as wear occurs, warning lights will be triggered if the system has them and eventually the engine, sprag clutch, transmission or gearboxes may fail. Basically look after the 206 otherwise you will be in trouble.

[J.Schweigler]

It helps me decide if I want to purchase a product or not when it comes out, what wrong with trying to find out that information, surely you must know what's possible within the confines on the FSX only engine by now, or is this product still a very long way from release?

But you can't decide without knowing anything about the finished flight model. Everything you "know" is what you think to know. All we said is, that we do all, FSX can handle. But who knows how much it can do?
I guess, you not! Or did you make a complete flight model for a chopper yet? Then of course, sorry!

WE are the guys, who say, there will be not the realism of a Discus or a Catalina, because we don't want to fool you.
Who knows? Maybe we get a superb flight model in the end. Maybe just a good one. All I can say is, that it will be not bad, ...as you try to make it, while comparing apples and oranges...

The huey is not so close to release that everything has been done yet, so even basic things of the flight model are still pretty open.

Regards Joachim

[Andy B.]

I never said your flight model was going to be bad, please do not get me wrong, I said and I quote "Shame it wont be as complex a flight model as the DODOSIM B206 for FSX".

You intimated that you were not going to build a custom flight dynamics module, basically the module is a fly by wire system that sits between the FSX engine and the users control inputs that better simulates helicopter flight in FSX, its a heck of a lot more complicated than that but you have the basics. If you don't go to those lengths you wont be able to do anything in that list of features I listed earlier, and that is a shame, but its not the end of the world. I've yet to see any helicopter in FSX apart from the dodo that can simulate torque-induced yaw even remotely correctly, FSX simply wont allow it in the helicopter flight model, this is one of the fundamental things to master when first flying a helo.