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New Aerosoft installer and Launcher


Mathijs Kok
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You - having nothing to hide - may wish to live in a glass house without curtains, being followed everywhere you go by CCTV, and having all information about what is in your apartment, drawers, and on your computer available to anyone to go through at their pleasure. I happen to think differently.

So my question stands - what kind of information exactly is Aerosoft gathering about my installation, and how is it treated?

:lol: i said no problem with which addons I have, and you are taking me to a reality show :lol:

I understand you of course, my post did not contradict none of what you wrote ;) the answer to your question should be very interesting.

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Will this new installer scan my harddrive and report back to Aerosoft what installed filightsim software it finds (Aerosoft and/or anyone elses?)

I have no problem with online activation, watermarking, or any other reasonable scheme to protect intellectual property. I do have a problem with marketeers invading my privacy.

We are not marketeers. And we will most certainly not scan your hard disk, we just check the registry (but only the sections that our installers create) to know what Aerosoft scenery products are installed. Please have a bit of confidence in how Aerosoft handles customers, we got a very good reputation to loose!

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We are not marketeers. And we will most certainly not scan your hard disk, we just check the registry (but only the sections that our installers create) to know what Aerosoft scenery products are installed. Please have a bit of confidence in how Aerosoft handles customers, we got a very good reputation to loose!

Once you have scanned the registry for installed Aerosoft products, is that information then passed back to Aerosoft, without the user's express consent?

I have no doubt that you wish to run a reputable business. Being transparent about what information you collect and how you use it would be a good step towards that goal.

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I've bought a few Aerosoft products in my time, and I've following these forums for quite some time now. Just lately I have noticed a change, or changes, and I must admit I'm not very happy about it.

I totally disagree with this latest change I'm afraid. Not because I have anything to hide, but simply because I am entitled to my privacy (everyone has that right). I think people are looking at the wrong "soft" here, it isn't AEROsoft I'm concerned with, it's MICROsoft. Our OS's are far too fragile as it is, without giving these scumbags, who think it's funny to infect our computers, another way to exploit our systems. I for one will not agree to have my computer "looked" at by anyone but myself. I have nothing at all personal on my PC, all that is on my Mac, and in all honesty it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if every single file was posted on the internet for everyone to see, nothing on there can hurt me or anyone I know. It's a matter of principle. This world we live in is getting far too nosey into our private lives, and it impacts our way of living on far too many levels. We go here, we're watched, we go there, we're watched, we drive our cars, we're watched, we go shopping, we'er watched. The only place we have any semblance of privacy is our own homes, and even that is getting to the stage where we are being spied on in our own property. It simply isn't on, and I will not allow myself to spied on in my home.

I guess you can gather from the above, that I am, from this point on, an EX customer of Aerosoft.

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Hi Aerosoft Team:

I agree with why you are doing this. My only question is what do I do if I have two computers. I have a desktop and a laptop that I use when I travel. Would I have to buy the product twice to have it on both computers?

Thanks and happy holidays.

Luis

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Mr. Kok,

I think that this "updated" installer is just what I've been waiting for; Will I be able to use it to find out if I need/have updates online that are NOT installed to my HDD for products that did not come with this installed? ie. If I have the F-16 X installed and buy Weeze X or some other newer product that has this installer; when I activate (Weeze X for example), it will tell me that I need to make updates to the F-16X as well (assuming that I haven't done so already, etc.)?

Also, I think I'll want that feature for all your products; something that I wouldn't have to make your staff re-make Bulk Order DVD's for with each update released. Save you'll a lot of headache as well as me.

Merci!

PS: What other Aerosoft Products come with this now? (Besides Weeza X; eg. Aribus X, etc.)

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A great idea, especially if it eventually monitors installed versions and advises on upgrades etc.

I must say I find it a bit disconcerting that a few people react to the prospect of Aerosoft checking their PC Registry with such horror and paranoia. I think there must a few people watching weird shit and having somewhat overactive imaginations around here ;)

Edited to remove a misleading and incorrect assumption

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A great idea, especially if it eventually monitors installed versions and advises on upgrades etc.

Of course, it's also a very useful tool for Aerosoft to monitor for illegitimate copies of the software in the most non-invasive way possible. I must say I find it a bit disconcerting that a few people react to the prospect of Aerosoft checking their PC Registry with such horror and paranoia. I think there must a few people watching weird shit and having somewhat overactive imaginations around here ;)

This is NOT a personal attack, it's a general attack at the people of your mind set.

Your reputation is excellent, but I can't believe you can be so naive. It really surprises me that people can't "see" what the future holds if we "the human race" allow the people in power to do exactly as they please. Do you, and other people, really believe that the people in these positions "know" what's best for us? If you want to allow just anybody to access your computer and "trust" them to be "nice" about it, then I'm afraid you are a fool.

It's not conspiracy, paranoia, or fear of any kind, it's fact. We are all being spied on, in one way or another, in our everyday lives, we don't really need it in our homes. There is just too much data out there about every single one of us already, without personal computer use being extracted by yet another software company. I spend more and more time each day cleaning out the crap that just surfing the internet leaves behind on my computer. And now people like you want to allow yet another way for someone to get into my PC? We weren't just given brains to maintain life you know, we were given brains to think, so I suggest people start thinking, and thinking ahead to what all this will mean, and where it will lead.

I am so glad I'm coming to the end of my life, and won't have to live in the times you people are creating for this world in general. This isn't progress I'm afraid, the world will become a place where freedom means nothing, and you won't be able to fart without someone in office knowing about it. Very sad indeed.

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Of course, it's also a very useful tool for Aerosoft to monitor for illegitimate copies of the software in the most non-invasive way possible. I must say I find it a bit disconcerting that a few people react to the prospect of Aerosoft checking their PC Registry with such horror and paranoia.

First let me say that my concerns are not with the Aerosoft installer scanning the registry, but the handling of that information. Does it or does it not get transmitted back to Aerosoft for any kind of analysis?

It is OK to retrieve information specific to the product being installed, in order to verify that it is legitimate. It is not OK to collect (let alone store) information about anything else on the user's computer. Doing so is definitely not "the most non-invasive way possible"

I think there must a few people watching weird shit and having somewhat overactive imaginations around here ;)

Well, I think that a lot of people are extremely naïve and unimaginative when it comes to privacy and computer security. Allowing anyone to collect unrelated information as part of a product install is a slippery slope - where exactly would you draw the line?

Aerosoft has a legitimate interest in protecting its intellectual property. I have an equally legitimate interest in understanding how that will impact my privacy - I don't expect any business out there to do that for me.

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In all sense of fairness, it is easy to see both sides to this discussion. I realize that many of us are witnessing the erosion of our personal privacy both online and off. This is indeed troublesome, as many of our freedoms are being whittled away by someone who has an idea and thinks it is best for everyone to comply. Each of us who run MS Windows knows that MS has given the governments the keys to the backdoor of the OS so they may come and go as they please in search of whatever it is they are looking for at the time. I digress.

I also understand Aerosoft's situation in trying to protect their intellectual property from being distributed freely. Who can blame them? After all, they spend countless hours working to bring each of us some of the best addons for FS that are on the market. As a freelancer (I write documentation, manuals, EULA's, etc.) who has worked with a few developers (non-FS), I understand their problem. Personally, I have seen a couple of the projects that I have worked on, and even more than I have not, with other developers show up on TPB within a week after being released. In the past few days, I have noticed that Iceland X has shown up over there as well. As a matter of fact, Aerosoft has many software titles over there. It is indeed a slap in the face to anyone who has ever worked on a software project.

How far should a developer go in order to protect their products from being illegally distributed? While there are a few developers and manufacturers that are well known to take their liberties with our systems (you really should read the EULA's), it does not appear that Aerosoft is taking those kinds of liberties. The way I am understanding this, is that all they want to do is read the registry entries that Aerosoft makes when their software installs to our systems. All software reads and writes to our registries during installation anyway. They would then upload that information to their system for license verification. It does not sound like they are searching for anything but products they have created. Our email addresses and credit card information are already stored in their system anyway. What is the problem? Aerosoft is one of the more reputable software developers on this planet.

I enjoy my privacy as much as the next person, but I really do not see what the big deal is with their new installer. I currently have two Aerosoft titles on my hard drive, each of them purchased on DVD more than two years ago and have been registered on their system and updated. I would like to own more, but I just do not have the time to fly like I wish i could. Although, the Iceland looks awesome and I will definitely have to purchase Antarctica when it is released.

Just my 2 cents.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone :D

Wayne

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In all sense of fairness, it is easy to see both sides to this discussion. I realize that many of us are witnessing the erosion of our personal privacy both online and off. This is indeed troublesome, as many of our freedoms are being whittled away by someone who has an idea and thinks it is best for everyone to comply. Each of us who run MS Windows knows that MS has given the governments the keys to the backdoor of the OS so they may come and go as they please in search of whatever it is they are looking for at the time. I digress.

I also understand Aerosoft's situation in trying to protect their intellectual property from being distributed freely. Who can blame them? After all, they spend countless hours working to bring each of us some of the best addons for FS that are on the market. As a freelancer (I write documentation, manuals, EULA's, etc.) who has worked with a few developers (non-FS), I understand their problem. Personally, I have seen a couple of the projects that I have worked on, and even more than I have not, with other developers show up on TPB within a week after being released. In the past few days, I have noticed that Iceland X has shown up over there as well. As a matter of fact, Aerosoft has many software titles over there. It is indeed a slap in the face to anyone who has ever worked on a software project.

How far should a developer go in order to protect their products from being illegally distributed? While there are a few developers and manufacturers that are well known to take their liberties with our systems (you really should read the EULA's), it does not appear that Aerosoft is taking those kinds of liberties. The way I am understanding this, is that all they want to do is read the registry entries that Aerosoft makes when their software installs to our systems. All software reads and writes to our registries during installation anyway. They would then upload that information to their system for license verification. It does not sound like they are searching for anything but products they have created. Our email addresses and credit card information are already stored in their system anyway. What is the problem? Aerosoft is one of the more reputable software developers on this planet.

I enjoy my privacy as much as the next person, but I really do not see what the big deal is with their new installer. I currently have two Aerosoft titles on my hard drive, each of them purchased on DVD more than two years ago and have been registered on their system and updated. I would like to own more, but I just do not have the time to fly like I wish i could. Although, the Iceland looks awesome and I will definitely have to purchase Antarctica when it is released.

Just my 2 cents.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone :D

Wayne

Very well said.:hi_s:

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all they want to do is read the registry entries that Aerosoft makes when their software installs to our systems. All software reads and writes to our registries during installation anyway. They would then upload that information to their system for license verification. It does not sound like they are searching for anything but products they have created. Our email addresses and credit card information are already stored in their system anyway. What is the problem? Aerosoft is one of the more reputable software developers on this planet.

The problem is that they are going beyond what is required to authenticate the product being installed. It is a step in the wrong direction as far as privacy is concerned. What would be the next (small) step?

They are free to collect information about the product currently being installed - nothing else, as a matter of principle.

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The problem is that they are going beyond what is required to authenticate the product being installed. It is a step in the wrong direction as far as privacy is concerned. What would be the next (small) step?

They are free to collect information about the product currently being installed - nothing else, as a matter of principle.

I understand what you are saying. When it comes to privacy, I value mine just as you value yours. And I can be one of the most outspoken people around if I think that my privacy is being infringed upon. I just do not think this is one of those times.

I have browsed this forum for a few years and usually do not say much, and I have read Mathijs and other Aerosoft staff members comments on many topics during that time. I think that based on Mathijs' comments both now and in the past, that he means what he says.

We are not marketeers. And we will most certainly not scan your hard disk, we just check the registry (but only the sections that our installers create) to know what Aerosoft scenery products are installed. Please have a bit of confidence in how Aerosoft handles customers, we got a very good reputation to loose!

Unless or until it is proven otherwise, I am willing to take him at his word.

Wayne

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This is NOT a personal attack, it's a general attack at the people of your mind set.

Your reputation is excellent, but I can't believe you can be so naive. It really surprises me that people can't "see" what the future holds if we "the human race" allow the people in power to do exactly as they please. Do you, and other people, really believe that the people in these positions "know" what's best for us? If you want to allow just anybody to access your computer and "trust" them to be "nice" about it, then I'm afraid you are a fool.

It's not conspiracy, paranoia, or fear of any kind, it's fact. We are all being spied on, in one way or another, in our everyday lives, we don't really need it in our homes. There is just too much data out there about every single one of us already, without personal computer use being extracted by yet another software company. I spend more and more time each day cleaning out the crap that just surfing the internet leaves behind on my computer. And now people like you want to allow yet another way for someone to get into my PC? We weren't just given brains to maintain life you know, we were given brains to think, so I suggest people start thinking, and thinking ahead to what all this will mean, and where it will lead.

I am so glad I'm coming to the end of my life, and won't have to live in the times you people are creating for this world in general. This isn't progress I'm afraid, the world will become a place where freedom means nothing, and you won't be able to fart without someone in office knowing about it. Very sad indeed.

most of what u say makes sense in some how. but that is part of our society today and far away from the things that should be discussed here. Aerosoft has a reason to go this way and it is important for them, for us, to go this way to keep a stable situation for future developments. That data on your computer can end up tomorrow in google and facebook is nothing new. if u are really, i mean really concerned about that in all details, u should stop using private computers and share your thoughts every day by using public computers in libraries.. and believe me, i know people who already do that... this might be a serious problem of our time. but that is not what its all about here. i can say, i have a private computer and a simulation computer and i believe many people here have this setup. so aerosoft could scan all my computer (and to be honest, even if they say, they don t do it, i could not be 100% they do it anyway) and all they would find is simulation software... so no problem for me at this point.

another question people should ask themselves while being afraid of being scanned. what would be the benefit of aerosoft to see all my installed programs? besides the fact that they might see which other flight simulation products i have bought, which would not be a big suprise for them... so getting information is one point. to use all of that information is another. and i do not always see the use in it. and thinking of that: how often i see people in public transportation using their mobiles talking to friends and telling them who they f...... last weekend and how drunken they had been at Jimis party... at home, they fight for their privacy but when they start to live they tell the world all their private s...t.

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Mr. Kok,

I think that this "updated" installer is just what I've been waiting for; Will I be able to use it to find out if I need/have updates online that are NOT installed to my HDD for products that did not come with this installed? ie. If I have the F-16 X installed and buy Weeze X or some other newer product that has this installer; when I activate (Weeze X for example), it will tell me that I need to make updates to the F-16X as well (assuming that I haven't done so already, etc.)?

Also, I think I'll want that feature for all your products; something that I wouldn't have to make your staff re-make Bulk Order DVD's for with each update released. Save you'll a lot of headache as well as me.

Merci!

PS: What other Aerosoft Products come with this now? (Besides Weeza X; eg. Aribus X, etc.)

All the products done internally will come with the system (and some where the external developers request it). And yes, as it develops it will see exactly what Aerosoft products are installed and will offer you the updates for any of them. We are NOT using it to find illegal use of our software.

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I've bought a few Aerosoft products in my time, and I've following these forums for quite some time now. Just lately I have noticed a change, or changes, and I must admit I'm not very happy about it.

I totally disagree with this latest change I'm afraid. Not because I have anything to hide, but simply because I am entitled to my privacy (everyone has that right). I think people are looking at the wrong "soft" here, it isn't AEROsoft I'm concerned with, it's MICROsoft. Our OS's are far too fragile as it is, without giving these scumbags, who think it's funny to infect our computers, another way to exploit our systems. I for one will not agree to have my computer "looked" at by anyone but myself. I have nothing at all personal on my PC, all that is on my Mac, and in all honesty it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if every single file was posted on the internet for everyone to see, nothing on there can hurt me or anyone I know. It's a matter of principle. This world we live in is getting far too nosey into our private lives, and it impacts our way of living on far too many levels. We go here, we're watched, we go there, we're watched, we drive our cars, we're watched, we go shopping, we'er watched. The only place we have any semblance of privacy is our own homes, and even that is getting to the stage where we are being spied on in our own property. It simply isn't on, and I will not allow myself to spied on in my home.

I guess you can gather from the above, that I am, from this point on, an EX customer of Aerosoft.

Okay, so you are NOT using any software that automatically checks for updates. That more or less excludes almost all modern software and as it was that way with Windows XP, VISTA and Windows 7 it's hard to see how you could have been a customer up tot this moment. You are also living dangerous without updates to your virusscanner etc.

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A great idea, especially if it eventually monitors installed versions and advises on upgrades etc.

Of course, it's also a very useful tool for Aerosoft to monitor for illegitimate copies of the software in the most non-invasive way possible. I must say I find it a bit disconcerting that a few people react to the prospect of Aerosoft checking their PC Registry with such horror and paranoia. I think there must a few people watching weird shit and having somewhat overactive imaginations around here ;)

We are NOT checking what is installed to what we have sold in any way. Technically it would be near impossible anyway.

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I would say that's exactly what we are doing right now!

Maybe it is just because you are very busy, but you avoided giving a straight answer to the question in my post, immediately above the line you quoted. It read: "Once you have scanned the registry for installed Aerosoft products, is that information then passed back to Aerosoft, without the user's express consent?"

To rephrase my question, services such as Microsoft Update etc typically have a privacy statement, detailing exactly what information is collected and how it is used (e.g. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc757657%28WS.10%29.aspx).

Do you have such a privacy statement?

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Okay, so you are NOT using any software that automatically checks for updates. That more or less excludes almost all modern software and as it was that way with Windows XP, VISTA and Windows 7 it's hard to see how you could have been a customer up tot this moment. You are also living dangerous without updates to your virusscanner etc.

Er NO I'm not using any software that scans for updates automatically Mathijs. I won't even allow Windows to update itself I'm afraid. My PC has Windows XP, Ultimate defrag, FSX and FSX related software like Panel Studio, FSMap, scenery and planes. That's about it really.

I don't have an antivirus program to update, hence I don't risk pirate software. The way I look at it is this, a company writes a brilliant piece of software, like say Maldives X which I bought, I assume that company knows what it's doing and won't mess up my PC. Now if someone else has cracked it and pirated it, who's to say they didn't add their own code that may break something, or worse?

I can say now without a doubt that someone is trying to scan my Mac through Safari as it's using over 3gig of memory and 100% of both cores on my CPU. Wonder who that is?

Anyway back to what I was saying. I have nothing against a company like yours protecting its software, but if these measures were accepted by us, then it will open the flood gates for any other company, government or whoever to do the same. That's not a good idea. Men all over the world have given their lives to protect our freedom, and yet modern human beings are all too quick to throw that away.

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

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Maybe it is just because you are very busy, but you avoided giving a straight answer to the question in my post, immediately above the line you quoted. It read: "Once you have scanned the registry for installed Aerosoft products, is that information then passed back to Aerosoft, without the user's express consent?"

To rephrase my question, services such as Microsoft Update etc typically have a privacy statement, detailing exactly what information is collected and how it is used (e.g. http://technet.micro...28WS.10%29.aspx).

Do you have such a privacy statement?

Mmmm no we do not ask specifically. But does you virus scanner ask you for permission each time it compares the installed definition with the one that is on the server. I just updated FireFox, Blendler, VLC, Office, Hansoft, Pidgin, IrvanView and Windows (my Tuesday update run) and none of them asked specifically if I wanted to send data. It seems m ore or less logical that the update process scans what is installed to know if it needs updating, right?

I will have a privacy statement made up, personally I think it's one of those things that's useless, but if it makes some customers happy.....

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We are NOT checking what is installed to what we have sold in any way. Technically it would be near impossible anyway.

So even if you could. If you have nothing to hide......

I always get a bit suspicious of people protesting against these kinds of measures to protect copyright. Call it my overly paranoia brain, but it looks like people are afraid off getting caught.

I loved seeing users of illegal copies surfacing after Oliver changed his AES. Brilliant move!

Because in the end it is in our (the users) interest that we ban piracy as much as possible, to keep developers (especially the smaller ones) in business. The margin are very small and to make there efforts worth while we have to support them

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But does you virus scanner ask you for permission each time it compares the installed definition with the one that is on the server.

No, it doesn't. But Microsoft does explicitly ask permission to collect information about my use of certain applications, that they can then use to improve customer experience.

Running an application that simply compares installed versions against a database of most recent versions is a non-issue, to me anyway. Running something that collects information about my installation, uploads it and stores it somewhere on a server is a different matter. If your installer is in the first category, no problem. If it is in the latter, I would very much like to know exactly what is collected and how it is used.

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So even if you could. If you have nothing to hide......

Back to my earlier post, if you want to live in a glass house without curtains, fine by me.

Aerosoft has my full name (Tom Risager) and a customer database. I'm sure they can find out that I'm a customer.

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