FSXaddict 18 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well, maybe there is life after FSX. http://flightsimulator.ning.com/group/flightsimulatornews/forum/topics/breaking-news-aces-studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted October 13, 2009 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted October 13, 2009 My impression is, they are thinking about a completely new kind of simulation: We want to combine the naturally inquisitive nature of the human spirit with the stunning resources of the planet. but our vision extends beyond flying and railroading, Just to continue or improve FSX would be too boring for them. But lets's wait and see Otto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 This team is formed OUTSIDE of Redmond. The FSX franchise is and remains the sole and exclusive property of Microsoft, and unless Microsoft have suddnely become naive and ignorant of Best Practice in business in recent years (and anti-trust suits all over Europe suggest that, if anything, they have been ratcheting their practices a little too far beyond best) there is no prospect of ACES team members being able to turn their hand to trains or planes while the MS products are deemed to have an active shelf life. In another market I am still under NDA's for things I haven't worked on for five years or more and my non-competitive clauses usually run three to five. I don't have hands-on experience of the software industry but it's founded on protection of intellectual rights, so it ain't gonna be less, is it? The FSX code, the rights to it, and the development budgets for it remain tightly locked away in the MS vaults. There is zero prospect of MS doing anything to it, or with it, UNLESS they have `given the nod` to this new startup to do something on their behalf... and frankly, given the peremptory manner in which the ACES team were treated by MS, I would think that entirely unlikely. Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish. ACES have the experience, and won't sell it to MS. MS have the code and won't let it out of their sight. FSX remains as dead and buried as the day they turned out the lights in the ACES office. What is exciting though, is the possibility that Aerosoft could hire these guys on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmanix 61 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well, they will need a solid foundation and lot's of money. But there is no law aganist writing their own new software code for a PC flight simulatior. I will watch with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSXaddict 18 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 What is exciting though, is the possibility that Aerosoft could hire these guys on.... I like where you're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainneedle1 32 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hahahah toooo funny, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordancollins 28 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 i donno what to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJM101 3 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 This team is formed OUTSIDE of Redmond. The FSX franchise is and remains the sole and exclusive property of Microsoft, and unless Microsoft have suddnely become naive and ignorant of Best Practice in business in recent years (and anti-trust suits all over Europe suggest that, if anything, they have been ratcheting their practices a little too far beyond best) there is no prospect of ACES team members being able to turn their hand to trains or planes while the MS products are deemed to have an active shelf life. I'm guessing the "Cascade Game Foundry" is making a new sim from scratch, I don't think they will be using any code from FSX or anything and this isn't related to the Microsoft FS franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainneedle1 32 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Look like the race is on for the new sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juergen_LOWW 21 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Interesting news, but -at this time- just an anouncing and no demo or something to "show". OK, let´s speculate. Hm, a walk on the chinese wall, I don´t know what they want to say with this, for me this isn´t sooo faszinating or exciting. But if they want to create a "player´s" platform, why not ? Hiking, driving by train car or aeroplane, diving, sailing. If there is also a "simulator´s" platform available...why not ? But in my opinion it would be the best if this new team and Aerosoft would talk together or even work together. There are so many gifted and talented designers here in Europe, a strong publisher, for me a very good base on which something new could be built on...together. Nothing would be worse if there will be (again) a split when different plattforms divide the simmers´community. If the new team really plan to work on a "serious" flight sumulation Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleed 29 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Firstly, this is not an ACES return, as ACES is history. It is a group of ex-employees that are starting their own company. Secondly, who knows what they may be up to. They mentioned all sorts of things (e.g. hiking on the Great Wall of China) but if they are smart, they would stay as far away from flight and train simulator as possible. I would not want MS lawyers on top of me for any product I may have to offer. I think that the fs market may be limited for them as a group for a while as they could be seen as breaching their Nd's and contracts all together. This does not have to be the case, but lawyers I am sure will find the best loophole to give them nightmares for this. I wish them luck, and let us see what they have to offer in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainneedle1 32 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Interesting news, but -at this time- just an anouncing and no demo or something to "show". OK, let´s speculate. Hm, a walk on the chinese wall, I don´t know what they want to say with this, for me this isn´t sooo faszinating or exciting. But if they want to create a "player´s" platform, why not ? Hiking, driving by train car or aeroplane, diving, sailing. If there is also a "simulator´s" platform available...why not ? But in my opinion it would be the best if this new team and Aerosoft would talk together or even work together. There are so many gifted and talented designers here in Europe, a strong publisher, for me a very good base on which something new could be built on...together. Nothing would be worse if there will be (again) a split when different plattforms divide the simmers´community. If the new team really plan to work on a "serious" flight sumulation Just my two cents Yeah! like Aerosoft would have talk to others (other company's developpers) for help building a new sim. (assuming this new company will build a new sim) and Aerosoft would have make their sim. compatible with other company's add on...........seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainneedle1 32 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Firstly, this is not an ACES return, as ACES is history. It is a group of ex-employees that are starting their own company. Secondly, who knows what they may be up to. They mentioned all sorts of things (e.g. hiking on the Great Wall of China) but if they are smart, they would stay as far away from flight and train simulator as possible. I would not want MS lawyers on top of me for any product I may have to offer. I think that the fs market may be limited for them as a group for a while as they could be seen as breaching their Nd's and contracts all together. This does not have to be the case, but lawyers I am sure will find the best loophole to give them nightmares for this. I wish them luck, and let us see what they have to offer in the future. Speculation, speculation, speculation......unless I see their contracts with MS how in hell would I know what can happend??? So all these guys are dum and they do not know what was in their contracts (what ever contracts it can be) and took the decision of doing something stupid just to attract MS laywers or getting themself in deep "crap" because they have nothing else to do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleed 29 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Speculation, speculation, speculation......unless I see their contracts with MS how in hell would I know what can happend??? So all these guys are dum and they do not know what was in their contracts (what ever contracts it can be) and took the decision of doing something stupid just to attract MS laywers or getting themself in deep "crap" because they have nothing else to do?? You do not need to see their contracts to know what is in them. MS is very sensitive when it comes down to product protection (including FS). Google MS, and you will find that they are no stranger to courts. In the U.S., contracts have non disclosures, and non competes written in to protect company ideas and products, it is that simple. Trust me on this one. No one called anyone dumb, so please read posts correctly and understand what the point is before answering. No one said anything about what decisions they came up with either. Only they know what they intend to do. My apology if you were under the impression that I was a soothsayer. I deny that completely, even though it would be fun. If you look at their website, you will notice that they left the information purposefully vague as to what they will produce. Sorry, but reading your other kind post before this one leads me to believe you are having a bad day, so I hope things get better for you soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psolk 80 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Speculation, speculation, speculation......unless I see their contracts with MS how in hell would I know what can happend??? So all these guys are dum and they do not know what was in their contracts (what ever contracts it can be) and took the decision of doing something stupid just to attract MS laywers or getting themself in deep "crap" because they have nothing else to do?? Couldn't agree more... Can we have anymore armchair lawyers tell us what these guys are and are not allowed to do please... My goodness, I doubt all these folks with 15 years experience under their belts did not think all of this through and decided to just go off on a whim and a prayer. Who knows what their contracts said or if their non-competes were void when ACES folded and let them go... It is tough to compete with a non-existant company regardless of product shelf life and I think the MS lawyers would have a hard time proving they are competing with a closed division that they publicly said they were not continuing. It is great we have all these people who know what is going to happen though, we might as well right these guys off now LOL... -P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleed 29 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Aces was part of Microsoft, and since fs is copyrighted, it does not matter if Aces is no more. All ideas and work done by employees of aces for train and flight simulator or anything else are the sole property of MS. Closing down a division makes no difference. Some of us have been down the road before in one form or another, and know what we are talking about. You would be surprised how many people start up businesses and fail even after 15 years of programming. Gifted in programming does not equate to the ability to run a company. Again, just as a reminder, I do not know what they intend to do. I just think that it will be tough for them to create fs products without attracting the attention of MS. Wether they have some understanding with MS in regards to future products they create is something totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psolk 80 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Aces was part of Microsoft, and since fs is copyrighted, it does not matter if Aces is no more. All ideas and work done by employees of aces for train and flight simulator or anything else are the sole property of MS. Closing down a division makes no difference. Some of us have been down the road before in one form or another, and know what we are talking about. You would be surprised how many people start up businesses and fail even after 15 years of programming. Gifted in programming does not equate to the ability to run a company. Again, just as a reminder, I do not know what they intend to do. I just think that it will be tough for them to create fs products without attracting the attention of MS. Wether they have some understanding with MS in regards to future products they create is something totally different. And some of us have had Non-Competes thrown out in court and understand how difficult they are to enforce. Furthermore, I did not say anything about them being successful I said I am sure these people considered their Non-Competes when forming a new company, big difference. "All ideas and work done by employees of aces for train and flight simulator or anything else are the sole property of MS. Closing down a division makes no difference." And I would wager that this would be argued in court and limited to existing works and not future works once the division was disbanded. If they create an entirely new FS engine with nothing to do with FSX I doubt a judge would say "well you worked on Flight Simulator in the past so you can never do that again in the future" which is the argument I am hearing. Those types of Non-Competes are almost non-enforceable anymore in court and is the reason a lot of companies stopped using them. That is also why Npon-Competes are VOID in California, Mass is looking at the same thing and a number of countries have put strict limitations around non-competes... But hey, we can keep speculating, -P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleed 29 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 And some of us have had Non-Competes thrown out in court and understand how difficult they are to enforce. Furthermore, I did not say anything about them being successful I said I am sure these people considered their Non-Competes when forming a new company, big difference. "All ideas and work done by employees of aces for train and flight simulator or anything else are the sole property of MS. Closing down a division makes no difference." And I would wager that this would be argued in court and limited to existing works and not future works once the division was disbanded. If they create an entirely new FS engine with nothing to do with FSX I doubt a judge would say "well you worked on Flight Simulator in the past so you can never do that again in the future" which is the argument I am hearing. Those types of Non-Competes are almost non-enforceable anymore in court and is the reason a lot of companies stopped using them. That is also why Npon-Competes are VOID in California, Mass is looking at the same thing and a number of countries have put strict limitations around non-competes... But hey, we can keep speculating, -P "And I would wager that this would be argued in court and limited to existing works and not future works once the division was disbanded." I totally agree, and that is what I am arguing. I was not referring to future fs engines of any sorts. That is where the speculation lies. I am referring solely to the following as an example: They create a weather engine that improves upon the current engine drastically. Surely the doubt would be cast (regardless of facts) that they used existing knowledge of the code that is copyrighted. Non competes have never been that good past six months anyway, as an argument is there to say that technological advances render them useless. Here is where I differ in this discussion: I pay you to work on my projects, nothing else. If you venture out and create your own product, using the ideas I paid you to come up with, and I can prove it, then there will be issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psolk 80 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 "And I would wager that this would be argued in court and limited to existing works and not future works once the division was disbanded." I totally agree, and that is what I am arguing. I was not referring to future fs engines of any sorts. That is where the speculation lies. I am referring solely to the following as an example: They create a weather engine that improves upon the current engine drastically. Surely the doubt would be cast (regardless of facts) that they used existing knowledge of the code that is copyrighted. Non competes have never been that good past six months anyway, as an argument is there to say that technological advances render them useless. Here is where I differ in this discussion: I pay you to work on my projects, nothing else. If you venture out and create your own product, using the ideas I paid you to come up with, and I can prove it, then there will be issues. Yep, I see where you are coming from too, it is a very shady area... Let's hope that at the end of the day regardless of all our speculating this group can deliver a top notch product that benefits the community! That is after all what we all really care about at the end of the day, what do I get out of this LOL -Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleed 29 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yep, I see where you are coming from too, it is a very shady area... Let's hope that at the end of the day regardless of all our speculating this group can deliver a top notch product that benefits the community! That is after all what we all really care about at the end of the day, what do I get out of this LOL -Paul Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 14, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted October 14, 2009 Guys this is a website, with two names, no projects and leaning on a track record that is far from ideal. I mean not matter how you look at it FSX was not a real killer and they were working on Train Sim when it was closed. Personally I would have avoided the ACES link like the plague as it is not really something that looks good on your CV when you worked at a studio that was killed off by MS. We got a plan, we are discussing it with the potential customers and add-on companies. They got a website (or more precise a blog, it's not more then that now). You decide. Nothing bad against them but just putting up a site that states you want to do something and worked for ACES before... it does not tick my box, okay? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 14, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted October 14, 2009 Interesting news, but -at this time- just an anouncing and no demo or something to "show". OK, let´s speculate. Hm, a walk on the chinese wall, I don´t know what they want to say with this, for me this isn´t sooo faszinating or exciting. But if they want to create a "player´s" platform, why not ? Hiking, driving by train car or aeroplane, diving, sailing. If there is also a "simulator´s" platform available...why not ? But in my opinion it would be the best if this new team and Aerosoft would talk together or even work together. There are so many gifted and talented designers here in Europe, a strong publisher, for me a very good base on which something new could be built on...together. Nothing would be worse if there will be (again) a split when different plattforms divide the simmers´community. If the new team really plan to work on a "serious" flight sumulation Just my two cents Just why should we work with two people who used to work for ACES and now got a blog site? Sorry to be so blunt, but the MAJORITY of people fired by MS contacted us in some form over the last months to see if they could work for us. We are still talking to some of them. Remember ACES was not a successful development studio, they were shut down. Not because FSX came in under budget, on schedule, better then expected and well appreciated by customers, right? I'm not even speaking about how they handled Train Sim, lol. Guys this is NOT Microsoft, this is two people who got some pages on a blog site. At this moment it is nothing more. Not being negative or protective here but you are all reading stuff that is not there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 14, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted October 14, 2009 Couldn't agree more. Well come and help us shape AFS012.... just go here and participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 14, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yeah! like Aerosoft would have talk to others (other company's developpers) for help building a new sim. (assuming this new company will build a new sim) and Aerosoft would have make their sim. compatible with other company's add on...........seriously Well I am talking to 20+ add-on companies and the goal is to help them deliver you add-ons for the new sim. The key is not in the sim, it is in what's around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainneedle1 32 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well come and help us shape AFS012.... just go here and participate. You tell me you'll make AFS012 compatible with other company's plane, airports or scenery and I'll help......so will AFS012 be compatible?? The answer is........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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