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CRJ Black Monitors , Engines running not flyable


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1 hour ago, Jujmental said:

I know it gets frustrating as heck when things don’t work the way we hope, but I think it’s wrong to assume that Aerosoft don’t care - nothing I have read in this thread suggests to me that they don’t. If they are unable to replicate an issue, how are they supposed to fix it?
 

Users aren’t being identified as the problem, user’s systems are being identified as the problem - there’s a big difference between those two!

 

Wise words. Of course we would like to solve this for users! It is just that without any clue to why it is happening there is nothing we can do.  

But if people want to vent their frustration by being angry at me. that's okay. Simply part of the job.

 

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Where did the people with this problem:

1. Get MSFS

2. Buy the CRJ

 

I have only seen one response to this and the CRJ was purchased from the market.  What needs to be understood, for those demanding AS take a look at how the aircraft loads, is that the market place adds DRM (the files are encrypted on your hard drive).  This means there is a loading, decryption of the files when you select the CRJ, that takes place before the aircraft is loaded into the sim.  If the problem lies there, and I suspect that if a problem exists that is where it is, then you need to be talking to ASOBO or whoever the market place gurus are.  None of the developers can help you at that layer and I would bet and maybe Mathis can confirm, they don't even have access to it.  All most of you are doing now is screaming I have a problem and you are not giving the most basic information about your system and procurement.  Good luck with that. 

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Mathijs Kok
This post was recognized by Mathijs Kok!

Claus Hansen was awarded the badge 'Helpful' and 3 points.

Well, for what it's worth I removed a lot from my Commynity folder and placed the itema back in small chuncks. I seems that it's Navigraph in-game panel which makes the trouble for me.

 

It's now uninstalled and the plane loads great again !!!

 

It's a fantastic add-on/airplane for FS2020 and even greater in VR !!!

 

Claus

 

 

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4 hours ago, Claus Hansen said:

Well, for what it's worth I removed a lot from my Commynity folder and placed the itema back in small chuncks. I seems that it's Navigraph in-game panel which makes the trouble for me.

 

It's now uninstalled and the plane loads great again !!!

 

It's a fantastic add-on/airplane for FS2020 and even greater in VR !!!

 

Claus

 

 

Well that is worth a ton.  It illustrates exactly what has been said.  Granted, it may not be the navigraph in-game panel for all but if others see this it gives them something to try.  It's funny, whenever I have a problem with any software, I always start from the premise that it is me or my system causing the issue.  Windows to Adobe to MSFS to Office.  Being self reliant is a big advantage in today's world. 

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I've just purchased this add-on, and within the first two attempts at using it, I encountered: 1) the FMS error (freezes after setting destination, even while on ground) and 2) the black screen error as written in this thread.

System specs: Intel i7, NVIDIA 1080 GTX, 16 GB RAM. Most unique characteristics is that my community folder is on a separate HDD from my MSFS install (which is on an my machine's main SDD).

 

If this is a random occurrence, it seems awfully coincidental that I'm encountering both out of the box. 

 

I agree with a prior reply that, if this was the case of only a few cases out of "tens of thousands" of successful ones - sure, that's difficult to address and likely not a fault of the code.

 

But i don't think this is about tens of thousands successful cases and only a few buggy ones - at least not yet (also, if Aerosoft has already sold tens of thousands of copies of the CRJ add-on in the last 3 months alone, the company is making enough money to resource someone to addresses these bugs - in turn solidifying more revenue before word-of-mouth of these bugs and Aerosoft's approach to addressing them starts tanking sales).

 

Ultimately, I have hard time believing this can only be a few cases out of tens of thousands at the moment. 

I urge Aerosoft to accept the possibility that these bugs are much more common than they would like to accept. It is one thing to have difficulty replicating a community-identified bug, it's another to assume the issue must be rare because you did not encounter it internally. 


This is the first time I've ever purchased anything from Aerosoft. As it stands, I will not be a repeat customer - in particular due to the way customer concerns were addressed in this thread earlier, and in others. Dealing with angry customers is indeed part of the job, because it's their money they are shedding for your product.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, justpurchasedWithbugs said:

But i don't think this is about tens of thousands successful cases and only a few buggy ones - at least not yet (also, if Aerosoft has already sold tens of thousands of copies of the CRJ add-on in the last 3 months alone, the company is making enough money to resource someone to addresses these bugs - in turn solidifying more revenue before word-of-mouth of these bugs and Aerosoft's approach to addressing them starts tanking sales).

 

Our testers fly thousands of hours we simply have not seen this in any form. The moment we know what the problem can be we can fix it, advise the user on what to change on his/her system or discuss this with Asobo. 

 

And do not worry about our sales tanking, it is my experience customers understand very well that every aircraft add-on ever sold will have a certain number of users that face problems. Those people also understand that if something happens to some people and not the vast majority of users. logic dictates it is most likely something on the users system that is different.  Doesn't mean we gladly assist and solve the issue, we do not know what to do, it is really as simple as that.

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This is such an unhelpful answer. I don't think anything in my comment made a point about sales tanking or tried to poke a finger at the company in such a way. I was using your own statement on July 1st of having seen this working on tens of thousands of systems to argue that Aerosoft should be in a position to handle this issue better than it has.

 

I hope when time allows, you or your company can revisit your approach to issues when they are raised by the community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@justpurchasedWithbugs for your first issue --- did you enter a Starting Airport location or did you just go directly to the Destination entry?  This has been seen before to cause an issue.  So always best to make sure to have the Departure airport then destination airport entered in the Flight Plan Page.  

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1 hour ago, justpurchasedWithbugs said:

This is such an unhelpful answer. I don't think anything in my comment made a point about sales tanking or tried to poke a finger at the company in such a way. I was using your own statement on July 1st of having seen this working on tens of thousands of systems to argue that Aerosoft should be in a position to handle this issue better than it has.

 

And if we are simply totally unable to recreate the issue, what exactly do you expect us to do? Hire a load of people and let them fly the CRJ 40 hours a week on clean systems where we simply KNOW the issue will not happen?  

 

I fully realize it is an unhelpful answer, but that is because we can't help. I am fully willing to listen to any suggestion, but if something happens on some systems and not on tens of thousand of others, it simply means it is not an issue with the product. Again, this does not mean we do not really love to sort it out for the people affected. We just do not know how.

 

This afternoon I contacted twenty people who we know hads the issue. So far I had seven replies. Two replied they had fully re-installed the sim and the add-on and did not see the issue again. Five said they still had the issue but they decided not to reset the sim. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

And if we are simply totally unable to recreate the issue, what exactly do you expect us to do? Hire a load of people and let them fly the CRJ 40 hours a week on clean systems where we simply KNOW the issue will not happen?  

 

 

 

There are plenty of resources online that support software companies improve customer service specifically in regards to bug reporting and bug handling. Aerosoft has been around for long enough that I'm sure you or someone within the company knows of approaches that work and don't work for your business model.

 

To start, with the ~20 cases that you know of, you can create a test and reporting procedure that can begin allowing you to have a more standardized set of reporting data for this and other potential problems.

This would allow folks like me, and others in the future, to contribute to helping to resolve this so that we can provide you the information you need.

 

Throwing this back to the customer and saying "what would you expect us to do?" is an emotionally charged response that is not helpful, nor does it sound like there's really a respect for the customer here as well. There are  somany things you can do that actually do not initially take a considerable amount of your time and resources, just mainly some better organization. I'm happy to give you more ideas, but my sense is your question was actually rhetorical. 

 

In my case, indeed since trying to add-on two more times, things are working fine so far. The only common denominator was that my first flight flight attempt was departing from a community-sourced airport that had some known NAV bugs. The second attempt was met with the all-black-screen-except-lights bug. After that, I restarted MSFS completely, chose more standard airports for the next flights, and so far so good. 

 

Yet, this exchange is enough to put me off any further purchase of Aerosoft software, or recommending it to others. In my opinion, your price point is way too high to warrant this type of attitude to your customers. From the sounds of your earlier comments, though, it sounds like you don't need new customers for your software anyway, which makes me pleased I'm not tanking your bottom line.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, justpurchasedWithbugs said:

 

There are plenty of resources online that support software companies improve customer service specifically in regards to bug reporting and bug handling. Aerosoft has been around for long enough that I'm sure you or someone within the company knows of approaches that work and don't work for your business model.

 

To start, with the ~20 cases that you know of, you can create a test and reporting procedure that can begin allowing you to have a more standardized set of reporting data for this and other potential problems.

This would allow folks like me, and others in the future, to contribute to helping to resolve this so that we can provide you the information you need.

 

Throwing this back to the customer and saying "what would you expect us to do?" is an emotionally charged response that is not helpful, nor does it sound like there's really a respect for the customer here as well. There are  somany things you can do that actually do not initially take a considerable amount of your time and resources, just mainly some better organization. I'm happy to give you more ideas, but my sense is your question was actually rhetorical. 

 

In my case, indeed since trying to add-on two more times, things are working fine so far. The only common denominator was that my first flight flight attempt was departing from a community-sourced airport that had some known NAV bugs. The second attempt was met with the all-black-screen-except-lights bug. After that, I restarted MSFS completely, chose more standard airports for the next flights, and so far so good. 

 

Yet, this exchange is enough to put me off any further purchase of Aerosoft software, or recommending it to others. In my opinion, your price point is way too high to warrant this type of attitude to your customers. From the sounds of your earlier comments, though, it sounds like you don't need new customers for your software anyway, which makes me pleased I'm not tanking your bottom line.

 

 

They have a ticket system for reporting and tracking issues...  You can even submit files... 

 

https://helpdesk.aerosoft.com/portal/en/newticket?departmentId=353346000000006907

 

 

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41 minutes ago, justpurchasedWithbugs said:

 

There are plenty of resources online that support software companies improve customer service specifically in regards to bug reporting and bug handling. Aerosoft has been around for long enough that I'm sure you or someone within the company knows of approaches that work and don't work for your business model.

 

To start, with the ~20 cases that you know of, you can create a test and reporting procedure that can begin allowing you to have a more standardized set of reporting data for this and other potential problems.

This would allow folks like me, and others in the future, to contribute to helping to resolve this so that we can provide you the information you need.

 

Throwing this back to the customer and saying "what would you expect us to do?" is an emotionally charged response that is not helpful, nor does it sound like there's really a respect for the customer here as well. There are  somany things you can do that actually do not initially take a considerable amount of your time and resources, just mainly some better organization. I'm happy to give you more ideas, but my sense is your question was actually rhetorical. 

 

In my case, indeed since trying to add-on two more times, things are working fine so far. The only common denominator was that my first flight flight attempt was departing from a community-sourced airport that had some known NAV bugs. The second attempt was met with the all-black-screen-except-lights bug. After that, I restarted MSFS completely, chose more standard airports for the next flights, and so far so good. 

 

Yet, this exchange is enough to put me off any further purchase of Aerosoft software, or recommending it to others. In my opinion, your price point is way too high to warrant this type of attitude to your customers. From the sounds of your earlier comments, though, it sounds like you don't need new customers for your software anyway, which makes me pleased I'm not tanking your bottom line.

 

 

LOL, now you see the big issue.  With so many community mods out, some with dubious adherence to the SDK, system based issues are going to happen.  I hope no one expects AS to hire people to come to houses or do live support on systems.  People need to learn to not just willy nilly download and install community addons.  I will guarantee that most if not none of them are tested to the standards that AS tests.  The recent release of the DC-6 saw a ton of people having problems with poorly configured community made liveries.  Short story there was the liveries were configured for static use NOT to be flown.   

 

So riddle me this, if I have been flying the CRJ (purchased from AS) since hour one with zero CTDs or black screens, why is that?  There are only two logical explanations.  1.  I have a special copy that works and others have a bad copy that does not work or.....2. I take better care of my system because I have DECADES of experience with every simulator ever produced and every major add on aircraft for PC and know what to do and what not to do.  

 

Also, what I don't do is run to AS or PMDG or Quality Wings with issues since I have learned that 99.99% of the time I caused them either by not doing something or by doing something.

 

For help, if you are going to continue to use community addons, and I do, download and use Addon Linker.  I contains two programs under the tools drop down called Materials Library Changer and Model Library Changer.  Use them.  They fix a lot of community inserted errors in scenery in particular.  That Addon Linker will also allow you to better and more importantly more easily manager your community folder.  You can remove everything with one click of mouse and add back in things under your control.  

 

And my final opinion.  Don't buy anything on the Market Place you can buy direct.  You have zero or not very easy control over items you purchase there because of their DRM system.  My opinion only. 

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2 hours ago, LesOReilly said:

They have a ticket system for reporting and tracking issues...  You can even submit files... 

 

https://helpdesk.aerosoft.com/portal/en/newticket?departmentId=353346000000006907

 

 

This is helpful, thank you. My suggestion was more about the next stage, where AS could put out a request for specific reports so that, as people find out an issue is shared by others, they can provide the same format of documented step-by-step conditions that created the error. But thanks, I hadn't found the ticket system before.

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4 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

And if we are simply totally unable to recreate the issue, what exactly do you expect us to do? Hire a load of people and let them fly the CRJ 40 hours a week on clean systems where we simply KNOW the issue will not happen?  

 

I fully realize it is an unhelpful answer, but that is because we can't help. I am fully willing to listen to any suggestion, but if something happens on some systems and not on tens of thousand of others, it simply means it is not an issue with the product. Again, this does not mean we do not really love to sort it out for the people affected. We just do not know how.

 

This afternoon I contacted twenty people who we know hads the issue. So far I had seven replies. Two replied they had fully re-installed the sim and the add-on and did not see the issue again. Five said they still had the issue but they decided not to reset the sim. 

 

You disregard that I had the issue on a clean system. Fresh Windows install, fresh sim install, no community addons or mods. Basically just Windows and MSFS on that system. You also keep hammering on tens of thousands of people not having the issue mainly because you haven't heard from them, that is a false equivalence.

 

As others and I have mentioned before, you could be proactive. Maybe dig into the part of the code where the state of the aircraft gets loaded as it seems to go wrong there. All you have said here so far is that you basically don't do anything because your testers don't encounter the issue. But you still have a bunch of people with the issue, with common symptoms, pointing to something going wrong at the loading of the aircraft state. So you have a lead indicating where to look. You just seem to not want to, because it is easier to point to the user and say you must be doing something wrong. And that is poor customer support.

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2 hours ago, Crabby said:

So riddle me this, if I have been flying the CRJ (purchased from AS) since hour one with zero CTDs or black screens, why is that?  There are only two logical explanations.  1.  I have a special copy that works and others have a bad copy that does not work or.....2. I take better care of my system because I have DECADES of experience with every simulator ever produced and every major add on aircraft for PC and know what to do and what not to do.  

Congratulations on your decades of experience and taking such good care your system. I also purchased the CRJ directly from AS, and I'll be sure to test out whether I can replicate the issue at the same airport, in the same way, without community mods installed. If that's the culprit, that's a good identification of potential conflicts, and a good way to resolve this issue not only for me but many others. If that's the common denominator for the 20+ that reported an issue, that they have different community mods, and those without community mods have had no issues - the problem is then resolved and this matter can be closed not only for me but the others who have reported the same issues.

 

The point is, it's not hard to dissect this from 20 reported cases if a uniform, systematic report of the issue can be collected.

 

I'm not hopeful that this will happen because comments like yours continue the refrain of pointing a finger at the user, especially - it seems - novice users, and I'm not pointing a finger at anyone. AS can't solve this issue alone, and armchair quarterbacking the solution, as has occurred in the forums since March, has clearly not prevented this issue from re-occurring. 

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10 hours ago, CRJay said:

As others and I have mentioned before, you could be proactive. Maybe dig into the part of the code where the state of the aircraft gets loaded as it seems to go wrong there. All you have said here so far is that you basically don't do anything because your testers don't encounter the issue. But you still have a bunch of people with the issue, with common symptoms, pointing to something going wrong at the loading of the aircraft state. So you have a lead indicating where to look. You just seem to not want to, because it is easier to point to the user and say you must be doing something wrong. And that is poor customer support.

 

Ahhh well, I am sorry we are not able to satisfy you.  

 

But this is software and that is digital. Under the same conditions it will always behave the same way, it will crash or it will not. If it crashes it will crash on every system with the same conditions.  Of course we have looked at the code to see what could be wrong. But as (and there I go again) if it works on tens of thousands of system the code simply can't faulty.  

 

And that is about all I can say about this.  I am sure you will not agree and maintain that we are responsible for making sure our code works on your system, but I disagree. We know how to solve this, so do you. But if people decide not to go for a clean install that solves the underlying issues, it is their decision. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

We know how to solve this, so do you. But if people decide not to go for a clean install that solves the underlying issues, it is their decision. 

 

So your code fails on my clean install, which was done in an attempt to fix other CRJ issues, and the fix is supposedly a clean install. Thanks for that wonderful support suggestion.

 

I highly regret the purchase of this poor excuse for a CRJ, I hope one day someone may actually get this plane done right.

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