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Performance Bug or User Error?? Running out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time! Please help...


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Hi,

 

Many thanks for your reply.

 

Just to say that I didn't press ESC at all on my last flight.

 

Also, may I ask why I should assign the spoiler axis to any lever?  This is normally what I do, using FSUIPC to do this.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

 

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I have since flown the CRJ several times without having this problem, though I am being cautious to limit my altitudes to FL300 and below (and to not hit the ESC key, though I did so accidentally last night).  And for those who have commented that using the ESC key causing a stealth extension of the spoilers (and the flaps!) are absolutely right.  But I've found that by running the spoilers lever (yes, I have it mapped to my bravo TQS), sometimes several times through it's full range of motion, it will clear it up.  Same for the flaps.  But the best solution (for now, anyway) is to NOT hit the ESC key.  You can use the "true pause" function instead, although obviously that won't get you access to the menus if that's what you need.  I have "p" on my keyboard mapped to "SET PAUSE ON" and CTRL-p set to "SET PAUSE OFF", and it works to freeze the action without messing up the controls.  But if you need the menus to change a setting or something, that won't help you.  I thought I had fixed that problem by moving where my joystick was plugged into (several people in the official FS forum suggested that doing so might help), but it didn't work.  Asobo needs to fix that bug and fix it fast, because especially for us CRJ users, it's not only the root cause of the control problems, but it also causes them to happen in "stealth" mode.

 

Thanks @metzgergva for dropping by the thread and adding your insight, I appreciate it.  Is it a no-no around here to ask when those updates might be coming?  If so, then please pretend I didn't even ask, I'm a forum noob and honestly don't know.

@wafu I actually emailed myself a copy of that chart, so now I just have to figure out the best way to make use of it.  Thanks for posting it.

 

And now I have to go and repost something about MCDU nav data that I thought I already posted, but apparently I didn't.

If you want to try solving the problem yourself by unplugging in where you have your peripherals plugged into, putting them into a different port, and restarting, I'd be curious to know if it worked.  Unfortunately, I can and did change where I plug in my joystick, but not my Bravo TQS, as I would need a 10-12' long USB cable to pull that off, and some help from the wife to actually run the cable, and let me tell you, she does not like running cables.  (I'm disabled, so I can't do it myself.)

 

Happy Hump Day everybody!

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:45 AM, Dave March said:

Since then it has undergone huge changes and today is a complete standalone ATC program for FS9, FSX, P3D and of course MSFS and called PF3.

 

@Dave March I'd be interested in hearing about that.  I'm currently using p2ATC, but there's nothing wrong with looking at other options!  Feel free to PM me, but as the thread starter, I have no problems with you posting it here, assuming it's not some huge rule violation, then please don't.

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23 minutes ago, Dave March said:

Well I don't know if it's against the rules either, so I stands to be reprimanded... anyway, you can check it out here if you want...

 

Looks very interesting.  Am definitely going to definitely spend some time figuring her out and if I want to buy it or not, but just a very first pass at the website makes me think it's better than what I'm already using.  I'm also going to send you a PM so we can talk about it off line, and you can do thing like ask me if I've bought it yet 47 times LOL...

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vor 21 Stunden , Puuhbear sagte:

there is an issue with mikroinputs from levers assigned to the spoiler axis. 

 

…which could perhaps be remedied by setting a wider dead zone for the spoiler axis…?

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I am having the same problem described in this thread. Not consistently, but on some flights during cruise the FD commands nearly full pitch up, and I lose thrust even though I move the levers to full power. The aircraft loses speed until around 130-140 kts, and loses altitude. I fiddled a bunch with the elevator control and performed a full stall and recovery, and that seemed to reset whatever was broken and I was able to continue on my way normally. 
 

also, this is a distinct issue from the invisible spoiler deployment after hitting the ESC key. 

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23 minutes ago, system-default said:

I fiddled a bunch with the elevator control and performed a full stall and recovery, and that seemed to reset whatever was broken and I was able to continue on my way normally. 

 

One workaround I've done that seems to help is to level out my plane, and firewall the throttle to get my speed back up, and then continue on and it seems to help, but that only is helpful if I'm trying to climb.  Perhaps if we're already at cruise and start to get behind the power curve like that, just firewalling the throttle and pointing the nose down, even if it angers the boys and girls at ATC, can help.  And in fact, I've done that a time or two, and once I've recovered my speed, it seems to be OK after that.  But you have to watch that you don't lose too much altitude, as there is a rock hard ground waiting for you out there somewhere.  Especially if you're already low and slow, or in mountain country.

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8 hours ago, KevyKevTPA said:

  I thought I had fixed that problem by moving where my joystick was plugged into (several people in the official FS forum suggested that doing so might help), but it didn't work.  Asobo needs to fix that bug and fix it fast, because especially for us CRJ users, it's not only the root cause of the control problems, but it also causes them to happen in "stealth" mode.

...
If you want to try solving the problem yourself by unplugging in where you have your peripherals plugged into, putting them into a different port, and restarting, I'd be curious to know if it worked.  Unfortunately, I can and did change where I plug in my joystick, but not my Bravo TQS, as I would need a 10-12' long USB cable to pull that off, and some help from the wife to actually run the cable, and let me tell you, she does not like running cables.  (I'm disabled, so I can't do it myself.)

 

Happy Hump Day everybody!

 

That is horrible "advice" that in no way troubleshoots or identifies the problem....  reminds me of FS forum/discord posts where people are saying it is because of your windows 10 version...  Or "did you update drivers"??

 

The bug is that it is (MSFS out of ESC) setting Axis to 50% that are "bound in the game"....  Bind them in a 3rd party interfacing software and removed from the SIM bindings you will not have it happen.  With an Aileron or Elevator the resting of the controller is going to be in the middle 50/50... Your Rudder is going to be 50/50...  Fun bug.

 

One other poster here gave the other "pro tip" about those with the TCA TQ but without the ADD ONs installed:  The default config has those AXIS already mapped (the Add On does not have it's own USB instead they use SATA cables to attach the ADD ON to the TQ which is the USB device.. so all AXIS and Buttons are there.. just "hidden") and thus even worse for them since they did not "think" they had a Spoiler or Flaps assigned.....  Digressing... Point is if you have the TCA and no add on and you do map in the sim... make sure you have made a profile and remove the buttons/axis that you don't have...

 

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Dear All,

 

I managed to complete a flight with no major issues.  I removed the link between the spoiler axis and the speed brake lever on my CH quadrant, so it is only activated by a switch.

 

The main issue now is that the engine speed doesn't remain constant which makes it impossible to maintain a constant speed during the cruise.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

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Personally I think the spoiler/speed brake on the quadrant might be a red herring, or at least remapping it is fixing part of the problem without it being the cause, because its happening to me and I have never had it mapped to my controllers.

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2 hours ago, bluemoon51 said:

Personally I think the spoiler/speed brake on the quadrant might be a red herring, or at least remapping it is fixing part of the problem without it being the cause, because its happening to me and I have never had it mapped to my controllers.

Its not a red herring... It is one of the causes for those that do have this mapped.  WU4 induced this... it's a coming out of the ESC menu..

 

Next there is the Icing issue... And that one is also hard to predict since it happens in situations where it should not.  they have also stated that even when the setting that is only to apply visual effects it was still adding weight....

 

 

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8 hours ago, LesOReilly said:

Its not a red herring... It is one of the causes for those that do have this mapped.  WU4 induced this... it's a coming out of the ESC menu..

 

Next there is the Icing issue... And that one is also hard to predict since it happens in situations where it should not.  they have also stated that even when the setting that is only to apply visual effects it was still adding weight....

 

 

The idea that their might be two issues causing similar flight dynamic problems seems reasonable to me and with relation to the second one, my three flights over the weekend where the same flight and the issues started around the same time(1hr into the flight above FL30). The first time it happened although there was no indication to that effect, but it felt to me like icing.... the second and third times with icing turned off. However, it as mentioned before happened at the same time, so that to me would indicate to me that it was a cumulative issue of some kind, that turning icing off didn't solve. So in conclusion it might very well be exactly as you state, I guess my next task will be to do the same flight again and watch the performance management screen and see if the weight goes up at some point before the "failure"..... If you live in Eastern Washington state, watch out for falling airplanes over the weekend!       

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Dear All,

 

Here's an interesting twist.  I operated the spoilers on ground using the switch that has been allocated for it as part of my pre-flight checks.  When I took off, the aircraft behaved like the spoilers were extended (even though they weren't) as the speed did not exceed 180 knots.

 

I then abandoned the flight, restarted MSFS and tried again, this time not touching the spoilers before take-off and the aircraft behaved perfectly.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

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I think it might be a problem with the center of gravity. On one pic posted by the OP the green ball on the EFB Performance page is all the way to the left (while it should be „in the envelope“, if I understand correctly). Possibly, this load imbalance messes things up.

 

On my last flights I tested with different load configurations. What worked very well was to set aft cargo to Zero. This made the green ball move all the way to the right. I ended up with a perfectly controllable plane, and I even enjoyed a flawless ILS approach -flown by the AP in APP mode - all the way down to minimums…

 

I would love to hear if this works for others too…

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2 hours ago, StanTGM said:

I think it might be a problem with the center of gravity. On one pic posted by the OP the green ball on the EFB Performance page is all the way to the left (while it should be „in the envelope“, if I understand correctly). Possibly, this load imbalance messes things up.

 

Indeed, I think that may be part of the problem.  If you look at the chart, I'm WAY out of the envelope, but if you look at the text part, it says I'm fine, and my quick mental math agreed.  All that said, I'm getting better with this amazing b1rd, and having less and less issues every time I fly.  Still having issues with the AP tracking the glideslope, but I understand that's a known bug that's set to be fixed in the next patch.  I'm just hoping we see that soon, because it's MICROSOFT, not Aerosoft that can really slow it down, as from what I've been able to ascertain, they take their sweet time approving patches and the like.  I hope that doesn't become an obstacle here.

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  • CRJ Forum Moderator
On 5/5/2021 at 7:54 AM, StanTGM said:

 

…which could perhaps be remedied by setting a wider dead zone for the spoiler axis…?

The current problem with the hardware spoiler axis is that it will cause all spoilers to deploy to 100 percent, including the ground spoilers which should never deploy in the air. This has been fixed for the update, and once that is released, it will be perfectly safe to use a hardware axis to control flight spoilers but until then, I would avoid using a hardware axis this function.

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4 minutes ago, KevyKevTPA said:

 

Do you have an ETA for that?  Thanks!

Mathijs is the only one who can give an official release time frame for the next update. Several major issues have been already been addressed, including (in particular) the problem with glideslope tracking and fluctuating engine power when moving the throttles, but there are still a few things that need some thorough testing before the update. It is “close”.

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vor 4 Stunden , StanTGM sagte:

I think it might be a problem with the center of gravity. On one pic posted by the OP the green ball on the EFB Performance page is all the way to the left (while it should be „in the envelope“, if I understand correctly). Possibly, this load imbalance messes things up.

 

On my last flights I tested with different load configurations. What worked very well was to set aft cargo to Zero. This made the green ball move all the way to the right. I ended up with a perfectly controllable plane, and I even enjoyed a flawless ILS approach -flown by the AP in APP mode - all the way down to minimums…

 

I would love to hear if this works for others too…

For me, if i set aft cargo  to zero, the green ball jump to the left site,not to the right. 

how was yours cg ?

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8 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

It is “close”.

 

That's more than good enough for me!  I'm really looking to having the glide slope issue fixed, although I have managed to make it work a couple of times.  Of course I guess that could have been luck, too.  In fact, literally everything I've heard about what's coming in the patch is something I'm looking forward to.

 

I appreciate you getting back to me...

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vor 22 Stunden , wafu sagte:

For me, if i set aft cargo  to zero, the green ball jump to the left site,not to the right. 

how was yours cg ?

I now did several flights with aft cargo set to Zero, and in each and every of these flights I found myself in control of the plane. No more nose up attitude, and better performance of the AP on final (not perfect, but much, much better than in past weeks).

 

I also payed close attention to the green ball. Never again did it move all the way to the right after setting aft cargo to Zero - it rather stayed pretty much in the center of the envelope  (in particular, after pressing all buttons in the EFB twice :-)) 

 

I don‘t know if I‘m selling snake oil here, but the facts are undeniable: with zero aft cargo I actually control the CRJ, while before I was struggling with a plane that seemed to be possessed by an evil spirit… 

 

 

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