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Mathijs Kok

Twin Otter X: open issues

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Understand and agree Mathjis. I was out all day yesterday and just had minimal time with her. Today is dedicated to the Twin Otter and I'll report back.

I'm just talking tweaks anyway, 'cause I'm just thrilled with what you guys have done. For someone who's been in the plane, you caught so many little details that make the immersion factor so good for me:

the wear on the rudder pedals and flap handle, the simple and accurate radio package, the well hidden autopilot (so I don't even have to know it's there :lol: ), the great sound package, and so much more. Nice job on her!

cheers,

steve :)

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There are quite a few ILS/LOC procedures around that depend on the outer marker fix. It's not an issue if you have a glideslope (wish the Otter did) as your glideslope intercept will substitute for knowing where the marker is. If you don't have a glideslope, like in the Twin Otter, then all ILS approaches become LOC approaches and the outer marker becomes your crucial final approach fix. If you are flying an approach with only marker beacons and not an intersection or NDB at the same location, you'd be out of luck with the Twin Otter and couldn't do the approach.

I'd really like a glideslope, but if we can't, it seems the plane really should have marker beacon lights.

cheers,

steve :)

This is the 'standard' location for marker beacon lights, would that do?

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Yeah, I think so. It would be a co pilot task calling the marker in most cases and the left seater would catch it out of his peripheral vision anyway.

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Hello all,

Just a couple of quick notes.

Picked up the aircraft last evening and while I haven't had a lot of time flying it.... it looks to be enjoyable.

Noticed the interior cockpit lite is lighting up the antanna above the cockpit. (starboard side only...... port side is not illuminated)

Also noticed the American flag is backwards on the Antartic ski plane version on the port side. The field of blue & stars always faces the direction of the wind.

Side note...... where do I find the paintkit. Can't wait to do up a paint scheme. (smile)

Best wishes,

Steve

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Had a few more flights in the Twotter and starting to get the feel for the thing. Still too much elevator downtrim neede for my taste on approach though.

Another issue: Check the atc_airline line in the aircraft.cfg! All liveries has the "Airwave 1123" as callsign. Not a big deal for me as i can easily change it myself, but you might want to change it for the next version. :wink:

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Had a few more flights in the Twotter and starting to get the feel for the thing. Still too much elevator downtrim neede for my taste on approach though.

Another issue: Check the atc_airline line in the aircraft.cfg! All liveries has the "Airwave 1123" as callsign. Not a big deal for me as i can easily change it myself, but you might want to change it for the next version. :wink:

We are really looking to the trim issue, expect something on that.

And totally ARCHHHHH on the call sign issue. It's the second issue that WAS fixed in the last beta but crept back in in the release candidates. will be solved.

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Hello all,

Just a couple of quick notes.

Picked up the aircraft last evening and while I haven't had a lot of time flying it.... it looks to be enjoyable.

Noticed the interior cockpit lite is lighting up the antanna above the cockpit. (starboard side only...... port side is not illuminated)

Also noticed the American flag is backwards on the Antartic ski plane version on the port side. The field of blue & stars always faces the direction of the wind.

Side note...... where do I find the paintkit. Can't wait to do up a paint scheme. (smile)

Best wishes,

Steve

The paintkit: http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=15835

Will check on the other issues. The lighting is totally screwed up in FSX, just see how the nav lights seem to be Xray beams and reflect on stuff that should be shaded.

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Let me preface this by stating if you guys choose not to change anything in the flight model, I think it'll be perfectly ok.

I've spent the morning at Ofu flying at max weight in similar conditons to what I'd see real world. I'm finding my takeoff distance is extemely close to what I'd be seeing in the real plane. On landing, it's also very close as long as I lay off the FSX brakes which are just way too effective. Like I said in an earlier post, if you slammed on the real brakes like you can in FSX, you'd have two blown main tires.

Cruise speed is just what I'd expect, in the 130 to 140 range. Also tried slow flight and trying to maintain level flight with full flaps, she was quitting around 50 knots. Several times I've been up on test flights in the real one just playing around and we could make a lightly loaded Otter fly all day at 48 KIAS, so the 50 loaded is very close.

Now for the pickly part: I've tried power changes up and down throughout the airspeed range. I still feel the pitch change on power change is excessive. The good news is that it's throughout the airspeed range, so as Mathjis said, may be easier to fix. I think overall pitch or elevator sensitivity is slightly too high as well (but I'll acknowledge that I feel that way about nearly everything I've flown in FSX). One of the really great characteristics of the Otter is that if you trim it in any attitude, it will stay there. That means it holds a well trimmed altitude without much input and holds a trimmed attitude on approach easily. I'm personally a trim fanatic and I'd make co pilots let go of the wheel for a moment on final to show me the airplane was properly trimmed. It should stay where you want it if trimmed properly.

Rudder response seems right on to me.

Aileron response is just perfect on approach and too sensitive at cruise speeds. Not sure much can be changed here and you wouldn't want to change the behavior at slow speeds on approach. The real plane turns into a rudder plane as you get slow since those drooping ailerons tend to be less effective. On approach it feels just great on roll, nice and sloppy.

Single engine performance seems very accurate and I wish I had individual axis for the props and power levers on my setup. Awkward with the mouse, but I'll get used to it.

I'm finding that the doors open properly with shift e with the engines running, but don't stay open when it's done with the engines off. They just seem to open and close quickly and the sound for it keeps repeating. Anyone else seeing that? :?

Looking for a painter to do Samoa Air's N711AS. Pay is bad, but you'll make an old Twin Otter driver really happy. :lol:

cheers,

steve :)

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I'm finding that the doors open properly with shift e with the engines running, but don't stay open when it's done with the engines off. They just seem to open and close quickly and the sound for it keeps repeating. Anyone else seeing that? :?

This is the only bit I can comment on, but are you parking close to a fuel pump? There's a known bug in FSX which makes doors slam shut as soon as the open animation finishes when you are within the refuel box. :?

Cheers,

Ian P.

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This is the only bit I can comment on, but are you parking close to a fuel pump? There's a known bug in FSX which makes doors slam shut as soon as the open animation finishes when you are within the refuel box. :?

Cheers,

Ian P.

Thx, Ian, I think that was it.

cheers,

steve :)

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Great thread. I have learned a lot about the DHC-6 and high wings with engines mounted above the CG. The idea of prop drag when in beta mode and up-pitching at reduced settings makes sense. I look forward to seeing the discussion evolve into final resolution. Perhaps as suggested, tweaking of the pitch parameters without compromising the correct relationships.

The one thing I welcome is the desire to keep the model accurate, not politically correct to what non-flyers expect. If it takes a more detailed explanation in the manual so people better understand the effect, that may help those unprepared for the realities of a high wing turbo prop with beta range.

One issue I would like to address is the flight placards over the pilot's head. In my display, they are blurred and unreadable. In real life, they are a handy reference for the pilot of flight parameters he needs to know. I can not find the data in either the kneepad or flight manual. It would be greatly appreciated if the next rev sharpens the details so they are clear and readable.

As mentioned, this is a welcome addition to FSX and I look forward to many enjoyable hours learning to fly her correctly.

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First, I absolutely love this plane.

Second, I'd like to second the suggestion made earlier in this thread that the textures be converted to DXT3 format for improved performance and loading time. On my machine, it's just a split second to load the textures on view switch, but it's still a split second slower than those aircraft with DXT3 clothes.

Third, though it may detract a bit from the realism for some, I'd like to see a pop-up window of the default FSX GPS added to the panel.cfg. It would just add some functionality when flying recreationally.

Fourth, I thouroughly enjoy the mousewheel functionality. Thanks for incorporating that feature! It's almost like being able to reach out and turn the knob with my fingers.

Finally, though I know it's been discussed elsewhere and I fully accept the explanations, an amphibious version (though rare in reality) would be really cool! :D

Thanks for the great addon and the wonderful customer relations. I love buying from Aerosoft.

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Mathjis

Thanks for the response on the throttle reverse issue.

It turned out to be operator error.

I configured my CH throttle detent to the F2 function, but apparently didn't have the "repeat" function set.

Throttle reverse works fine once the operator knows how to use it.

Great plane. I see lots of hours of flight time pushing its envelope.

Hi Paul

I too have the CH Throttle Quad but have never been able to set the beta range function on it. If possible, could you please give me some step by step instructions on how to do it?

With thanks

Chris

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Hi Chris,

Apparently we can't PM on this site, so I will post my response here.

I use a two step process.

First, in CH Control Manager, I set both throttle detents to Button 13. That way, both throttle lever detents have the same signal. The CH forum can explain the procedure in more depth if you need it.

Secondly, in FSX, I go to "objects/settings/controls and configure it. In the Button/keys section, set your controller type as CH Throttle Quadrant and go to Event Category "Engines".

Scroll down to "throttle (decrease quickly) and do a "change Assignment" by pulling one of your throttles into detent. You should now have both F2 AND button 13 of your throttle set.

The step I keep missing is that finally, you must slide the "Repeat" all the way to the right so that the detent position pulls the FSX throttle all the way to full reverse.

Hope this helps. Its a great plane when the throttle reverse works correctly.

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Thanks Mathijs for the location info. on the paint kit.

I swear I looked there last evening after I purchased the aircraft and it nor the manual was listed there.

Maybe I needed to log out and then log back in or something.

Anyway.... Many Thanks.... I hope I can do some flying tonight!

Cheers!!

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Mathijs,

I love this plane, waited eagerly for it and you did an awesome job, thanks! :D

This is the perfect bird for non precision approaches, so I don't miss the glideslope needle. But I do miss a DME, for those beautiful VOR DME and NDB DME procedures on remote airfields, always challenging and fun to execute well. Without a DME, we need to keep times, but the clock misses a seconds hand.

I could add the default DME to the VC, but (i) it's awfully odd and (ii) the panel is hardcoded so it is not easily editable.

Could you consider adding a chronometer (or a better clock, that beauty from the Beaver should do just fine!) and a decent DME?

Best regards,

Sergio

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The issue with the engine start and the fuel selector may be due to an initial mismatch between the visual fuel selector position and where it is actually set.

When the plane boots up in the cold start position the fuel selector switch is visually showing in the normal position.

However, the engine will not start. But, once I toggle the fuel selector the engine immediately starts.

Also, I have noticed that the Nav radios are difficult to tune. In the VC it seems the number two will not tune the major digits but only the minor digits after the decimal. It seems the reverse is true for the number one freq.

The other issue I have noticed is that the props do not feather. They continue to windmill.

Ken

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I ran across another interesting issue.

If you accidentally hit the gear up/down key in flight, the next time you land, the Twotter acts like the gear is up and tries to belly in. The gear falls through the runway and grinds to a stop. Obviously, with fixed gear, the gear up/down command should not effect it.

I tried a number of other fixed gear planes to see if this was an FSX quirk, but they all functioned as expected.

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The one thing I welcome is the desire to keep the model accurate, not politically correct to what non-flyers expect. If it takes a more detailed explanation in the manual so people better understand the effect, that may help those unprepared for the realities of a high wing turbo prop with beta range.

YES! That´s an important point for me too! Please don´t patch the flight model to death because of a not expected behavior for Flightsimmers! I love the challenge of learning new things and it´s great if you jump out of the Twotter into your Beaver and it flies totally different!

OH and if you´re planning to add more stuff for IFR enthusiasts please make it either removable or as a "new" VC-version! I like my Standard (nonGPS) Cockpit as it is! I don´t need any more instruments and would like to keep it as it is! I think I´ll even remove the Autopilot :wink:

Thanks again for this great plane!

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This is the 'standard' location for marker beacon lights, would that do?

Here a pic showing some things that are missing. Hope this helps. I flew these for 5 years for Executive Airlines and Air New England, and we would never have flown them without a full ILS system which included GS and marker beacons.

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Here a pic showing some things that are missing. Hope this helps. I flew these for 5 years for Executive Airlines and Air New England, and we would never have flown them without a full ILS system which included GS and marker beacons.

I agree.

What years did you fly for Air New England? I was learning to fly in Keene, NH, in 75 and vividly remember Air New England Twin Otters making the ILS 02 into Keene, breaking out and then flying almot the full length of the runway before touching down at the end and turning into the terminal ramp. :lol: Never dreamed I'd wind up flying them too. :)

cheers,

steve :)

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What years did you fly for Air New England? I was learning to fly in Keene, NH, in 75 and vividly remember Air New England Twin Otters making the ILS 02 into Keene, breaking out and then flying almot the full length of the runway before touching down at the end and turning into the terminal ramp. :lol: Never dreamed I'd wind up flying them too. :)

cheers,

steve :)

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I just took a closer look at that pic and it also shows the AP as well as #2 running, they must be loading :-)

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This is the perfect bird for non precision approaches, so I don't miss the glideslope needle. But I do miss a DME, for those beautiful VOR DME and NDB DME procedures on remote airfields, always challenging and fun to execute well.

Me too! I wanted to fly the DHC-6 to some of the small airfields in Greenland, but all the instrument approaches are NDB DME. (No precision approaches anywhere, so I don't miss the ILS needle).

Tom

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Me too! I wanted to fly the DHC-6 to some of the small airfields in Greenland, but all the instrument approaches are NDB DME. (No precision approaches anywhere, so I don't miss the ILS needle).

Tom

If you fly the 300, you can get DME off the GPS, although Im still trying to learn this one. The manual is very extensive. I have 'cheated' at this point and installed the FSX default Garmin 500 until I can find the time to learn the new one.

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