Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I'm sat at the eastern end of 27L watching Ai coming from the north taxi onto 27L for take-off. They move onto the runway and look as they are going to taxi right across towards Terminal 4 before turning left through 270 degrees eventually lining up and departing. What they should do is just turn right 90 degrees and line up. This is not normal behaviour and I suspect the taxiway connectors need some fine tuning. Is there a modified AFCAD this can fix this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCT2003 2553 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said: I'm sat at the eastern end of 27L watching Ai coming from the north taxi onto 27L for take-off. They move onto the runway and look as they are going to taxi right across towards Terminal 4 before turning left through 270 degrees eventually lining up and departing. What they should do is just turn right 90 degrees and line up. This is not normal behaviour and I suspect the taxiway connectors need some fine tuning. Is there a modified AFCAD this can fix this issue? What program, if any, are you using for AI Aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCT2003 2553 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I checked the AFCAD which comes with the scenery, I didn't see any issues (see screen shots below). If you're using an AI Traffic program that modifies the AFCAD, then that is the issue and you'll need to address that with the developer of that software. If not, it would be great to see a video of what you're seeing. Best wishes. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 Hi Dave, Im using AIG Ai but that shouldn’t be an issue, surely. It doesn’t modify the AFCAD which is the one supplied with the package. I’ll open it with ADE tomorrow and check that area myself. In your screenshots that looks like the western end of 27L. Could you check please? It’s the end nearest London I’m interested in. Westerly departures from 27L. Out of interest does it return zero faults when Find Faults is run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 I have no means of making a video, sorry. I’ll take a few screenshots to show the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data63 421 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 could you just post a screen of the AFCAD with the path your AI takes - that may help to find the culprit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, data63 said: could you just post a screen of the AFCAD with the path your AI takes - that may help to find the culprit Hi Jurgen, I've captured these screenshots showing the problem. The AFCAD in use is AFX_EGLL_P3D.BGL dated 17 Sept 2014. ADE reports multiple issues. It would be nice to have a clean one. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Here is a screenshot of the AFCAD in the affected area. Notice the taxi line from the left taxiway doesn't appear to have a route to turn right onto 27L. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted September 8, 2019 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said: The AFCAD in use is AFX_EGLL_P3D.BGL dated 17 Sept 2014. Interesting, I dont have such a file on my system. Where on your system is this file located? And the file date seems to be rather old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data63 421 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 problem is probably, that AI traffic is always trying to start the takeoff at the very end of the runway connected with a taxiway. One way to change this could be to change the last "black" runway segment to a "green" taxiway type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer OPabst 2091 Posted September 8, 2019 Developer Share Posted September 8, 2019 This is not the Professional Version in this case, only the old for FSX/P3D until V3. In the Professional Version no Runwaylights in the Afcad. But the issue is, as Jürgen said, the situation at this end of the runway. The way via the south is shorter then the way Holdpoint NB1. We will change that in the Professional version with the next update. Workaround until then is as Jürgen explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, mopperle said: Interesting, I dont have such a file on my system. Where on your system is this file located? And the file date seems to be rather old. Apologies. That's the AFCAD for Xtended which I have for P3Dv3. The AFCAD for v4 is in:- D:\P3Dv4\Aerosoft\Sim-wings London Heathrow Professional\scenery and is named EGLL_AFX_STD.bgl. Image below. Same problem with no direct routing from the taxiway turning right onto 27L. Please login to display this image. 7 minutes ago, data63 said: problem is probably, that AI traffic is always trying to start the takeoff at the very end of the runway connected with a taxiway. One way to change this could be to change the last "black" runway segment to a "green" taxiway type. I'll look at how I can do that as a temporary fix, thanks Juergen. 3 minutes ago, OPabst said: This is not the Professional Version in this case, only the old for FSX/P3D until V3. In the Professional Version no Runwaylights in the Afcad. But the issue is, as Jürgen said, the situation at this end of the runway. The way via the south is shorter then the way Holdpoint NB1. We will change that in the Professional version with the next update. Workaround until then is as Jürgen explain it. Thanks Oliver. How long before a fix is issued? Westerly departures are common at EGLL perhaps 80% of the time. With so many Ai in my system the longer it takes for a departing aircraft to line up the greater the chance of go-arounds. Not nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 In the aFCAD that is by default in the SCENERY of Prepar3D v4.5, there is no such problem, I think? Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, mopperle said: Interesting, I dont have such a file on my system. Where on your system is this file located? And the file date seems to be rather old. True, the file does not appear in the installation. I was going to check that file in my installation, and as NOPPERLE writes it doesn't appear. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted September 8, 2019 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said: 2 hours ago, mopperle said: Interesting, I dont have such a file on my system. Where on your system is this file located? And the file date seems to be rather old. Apologies. That's the AFCAD for Xtended which I have for P3Dv3. The AFCAD for v4 is in:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer OPabst 2091 Posted September 8, 2019 Developer Share Posted September 8, 2019 First, the issue is independed of the Version, it is in issue was already existing in the older Versions (FSX/P3D) and is also in the Professional version. Why is there problem, I will try to explain: Please login to display this image. In the special case of entrypoints to the runway here at the RW27L, the calulation of the way to the Runwaydepature Position at the runway is source of the issue. The FS (all versions) will go always to the first Node of the Runwaylinks on the runway (blue cycle) and place the aircraft to the first path of the runwaylinks (blue arrow). All traffic from the south has a clear way to the first node, but traffic from the north is depending on which taxiway is entering this area. All traffic via TW B (1) will calc the shortest path correct via L28 to Entry NB1 (green). Traffic entry via A from the west (2) will calc way via NB2E and SB1, because it is shorter then via A to the north and then right via L28 to NB1. The calc is too simple and takes only the pathlenght is count. Solution 1 is, to remove the connection to the south taxiway link like this: Please login to display this image. In this case the Entry NB2 will not anymore used for depature traffic, as it is not the first note on the runwaylinks. All traffic will go to NB1 Solution 2 is, to change the first Runwaylinke to a apron link: Please login to display this image. But in this case, NB1 is not used from the north anymore, because the pathlenght to NB2 is always shorter. I will look into it, but there are several other issue, that can be optimized, so it will take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 But in Heathrow Professional v1.1 for Prepar3D v4.x in the AFCAD file <EGLL_AFX-STD.BGL> this is defined....as a waiting point to join the RWY 27L Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 Oliver, thank you for taking the time to explain the problem and suggest two solutions. I have started to edit the AFCAD along the lines of solution 1 which would route all Ai on the north side towards the eastern-most entry route. With solution 2 it would take a long time for Ai coming from the south (Terminal 4) to line up for take-off. The AFCAD is replicating real-world ops but this shows up the limitations of ESP code. Mine is just a quick fix. Once the official fix is made available I’ll switch to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Miguel_V said: But in Heathrow Professional v1.1 for Prepar3D v4.x in the AFCAD file <EGLL_AFX-STD.BGL> this is defined....as a waiting point to join the RWY 27L Miguel, If you have an Ai package position your aircraft close to 27L and watch the Ai taxiing from the north side of 27L. See if they exhibit the same behaviour. Is there a waiting point for the taxiway on the left of your screenshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 I've modified the AFCAD along the lines of Oliver's Solution 1 above and have been monitoring departures from 27L for the last few hours. All Ai on the northern side of the airfield line up and depart from the most easterly taxi route. Those on the southern side are unaffected and operate as before. I'm attaching it for anyone who wants to use it. You'll need to rename the original. Hope this doesn't affect any copyright issues. If so, then just remove it. This is only a temporary fix. I'm sure Aerosoft / SimWings will come up with an official fix. But for now there have been no goarounds and Ai appear to be behaving as they should. EGLL_ADEP4_RAY.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCT2003 2553 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said: I've modified the AFCAD along the lines of Oliver's Solution 1 above and have been monitoring departures from 27L for the last few hours. All Ai on the northern side of the airfield line up and depart from the most easterly taxi route. Those on the southern side are unaffected and operate as before. I'm attaching it for anyone who wants to use it. You'll need to rename the original. Hope this doesn't affect any copyright issues. If so, then just remove it. This is only a temporary fix. I'm sure Aerosoft / SimWings will come up with an official fix. But for now there have been no goarounds and Ai appear to be behaving as they should. EGLL_ADEP4_RAY.zip 25.05 kB · 0 downloads That is very nice of you Ray, thank you so much. I was called out of town, but I monitored the thread. Would you please confirm which version of Heathrow the AFCAD is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said: That is very nice of you Ray, thank you so much. I was called out of town, but I monitored the thread. Would you please confirm which version of Heathrow the AFCAD is for? Cheers Dave. SimWings Heathrow Professional for P3D v4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said: Miguel, If you have an Ai package position your aircraft close to 27L and watch the Ai taxiing from the north side of 27L. See if they exhibit the same behaviour. Is there a waiting point for the taxiway on the left of your screenshot? Sorry RAY, I do not have installed any Addon AI, unless I put in the P3D v4.5 to the maximum the AI in Airplanes, and see what happens, for now I have it at 5%, tomorrow Monday afternoon I will put you a sticky copy of the screen of the AFCAD complete , from the ADE v175 app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 I've taken a few minutes off sleep, to get you the capture of The AFCAD Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Proudfoot 231 Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Miguel_V said: I've taken a few minutes off sleep, to get you the capture of The AFCAD Thank you Miguel. That AFCAD shows it would have the same problem as the AFCAD supplied by SimWings. Let's see what they come up with. For now, my fix works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said: Thank you Miguel. That AFCAD shows it would have the same problem as the AFCAD supplied by SimWings. Let's see what they come up with. For now, my fix works for me. I see that in the mofification of you of the afcad, you remove from root a TAXI, in my opinion without removing the taxi and putting CLOSED would leave I think unusable for the AI, such as on that piece of TAXI marked in 1 and selected closed in 2 What do AEROSOFT and/or SIMWINGS think of that? Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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