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Suggestion about engine starts


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I would like to suggest an improvement about engine starts. We all know how those surge unrealistically on start, with parameters rising really fast and completing the start procedure much sooner than its real world counterpart. I know this is due to the ESP engine model limitations and i don't expect a custom engine model at this point, but i think another solution could be feasible: faking the engine indicators so that it shows a realistic start while under the hood it's the same engine start as always.

 

I first heard about this technique in another Aerosoft product, the Simcheck A300. Initially it had the same default unrealistic engine starts. When people pointed that he made the change and i thought it a very clever idea (he said other products also used this technique). Thus EGT and other parameters rose gradually, while the engine whined and groaned coming into life...it was awesome, and realistic! Yes, it's smoke and mirrors, but nobody ever complained. I guess the soundset should be adapted, but fortunately you barely hear the engines in the CRJ.

 

Maybe this could be done to the CRJ? It's one of the most obvious flaws of the product, and this would mask it neatly.

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The sound set is actually pretty good.  AS has nailed the sound of everything going quiet when you hit the start button as the packs come off.  You don't hear the engines at all in the RJ.  In the real aircraft, when you hit the start button until starter cutout (N2 50%) is usually 30 seconds or so.  After that, the rest of the start takes another 20-30 seconds so your looking at almost a minute for each engine to start and stabilize. 

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vor 13 Stunden , giltender sagte:

You don't hear the engines at all in the RJ.

 

Since most simmers are not actual pilots, me included, we kind of expect to hear different things upon flicking every switch. Every blink blink or ding ding or spool up of fan, kind of add up to the "immersion" of sitting in a chair infront of a monitor. Even if the sounds don't realy exist in reality, I think we simmers "need" to hear them cause it gives you the feeling of a live cockpit.

 

I recall lots of discussions about "missing" sounds from the AS Airbus family (FSX) present in a Airbus from a competitor. Regardles of inputs from real Airbus pilots, or explanation from the DEV team in regard to the "missing" sounds, the simming crowd was way but way "louder".

 

I can't tell what outcome it would have if @Hans Hartmann would mute the engines... but speaking for myself, I would not like it.

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Sorry, but we will not gamify the simulations.

 

It is already a very complex theme as customers often compare YouTube video with the sim. They forget that the small microphones in the recording devices pick up sound that your ears often hardly hear. Add to that the fact pilots often wear headsets (even noise canceling ones) and things get even more complex.

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vor 26 Minuten, Mathijs Kok sagte:

Sorry, but we will not gamify the simulations.

 

Mathijs, I think you misunderstood what I wrote!

 

We have here an actual pilot stating that the engines are not heard in the real CRJ cockpit. In the actual version of the simulated CRJ, they can be heard and I found it good this way.

My entire post was to communicate that although @giltender brings a lot value with hes inputs, I would not recomend @Hans Hartmann to mute those sounds.

 

So no need to be combatitive here (it's how I understood your reply).

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5 hours ago, GEK_the_Reaper said:

So no need to be combatitive here (it's how I understood your reply).

 

He didn't mean that in a combative way at all my friend, Mathijs was just being technically accurate while stating our position (as many of us long term flight simmers do, but especially the extremely busy ones, and nobody around here is nearly as busy as Mathijs is.  Also important to keep in mind that "nothing is more misunderstood than the written word".

 

The engine volume?  It's very true.  Although I don't have any time on the flight deck of the CRJ, I do have time in the MD-80 flight deck and I can say that the engine sounds are very quiet (from the flight deck) on narrow body, T-Tail aircraft with engines mounted in the rear of the fuselage.  Over on the Maddog Team, I could recount years of conversations (some of them real knock-down, drag-outs) with customers who said the flight deck engine sounds were not loud enough.  There are many disconnects between flight sim and the real world, but given all the variables that come into play with sounds, what people hear or don't heard is something that is discussed A LOT!   With this in mind, I'm thinking about the Barking Dog hydraulic sound (as heard from the flight deck) that we went round after round with people on back with the Airbus developed for FSX/P3Dv3!

 

In the end, it is up to the developer to determine how they wish to model things, and where sounds are concerned customers can modify the sound levels by modifying the sound.cfg (see the Microsoft ESP Wiki for instructions) and/or by using a freeware program called Audacity (but it takes a LOT of trial and error to get it right).  In fact, I did this to the FS9/FSX version of the Maddog to make the sounds heard on the flight deck more realistic (more quiet).  There are also freeware and payware custom sounds sets available for many aircraft, though I don't know if they exist for the Digital Design CRJ-700X/900X.

 

The wonderful and unique thing about our hobby is that people can set things up however it pleases them, it just takes some time to do it.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

The engine volume?  It's very true.  Although I don't have any time on the flight deck of the CRJ, I do have time in the MD-80 flight deck and I can say that the engine sounds are very quiet (from the flight deck) on narrow body, T-Tail aircraft with engines mounted in the rear of the fuselage.  Over on the Maddog Team, I could recount years of conversations (some of them real knock-down, drag-outs) with customers who said the flight deck engine sounds were not loud enough.  There are many disconnects between flight sim and the real world, but given all the variables that come into play with sounds, what people hear or don't heard is something that is discussed A LOT!   With this in mind, I'm thinking about the Barking Dog hydraulic sound (as heard from the flight deck) that we went round after round with people on back with the Airbus developed for FSX/P3Dv3!

 

And to be fair Dave, I am one of those who was unhappy with the MD80 soundset, so I bought the TSS soundset and included it in my maddog. Now I hear my engines and all is good.

 

What most, if not all, simmers forget is: We sit in the cockpit wearing ANR headsets. Well, at least most of us do, I know at least one colleague flying with an 80€ GA headset, but  that's a different topic.
Under my ANR headset I hardly hear the engines at all. It even goes so far that sometimes in cruise I put my Bose ANR headphones over my aviation headset, just to get that additional ANR.
Then it becomes totally quiet. Well, at least except for the aircraft sounds picked up by our microphones which are then returned into the system. When the intercom is turned off though you don't hear a thing anymore. Total silence!
And honestly, that's how I like it the most at work ;)

Yet when sitting at my sim at home my flatmates usually complain my sim is too loud. That's life, isn't it? ;)

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12 minutes ago, Emanuel Hagen said:

 

And to be fair Dave, I am one of those who was unhappy with the MD80 soundset, so I bought the TSS soundset and included it in my maddog. Now I hear my engines and all is good.

 

What most, if not all, simmers forget is: We sit in the cockpit wearing ANR headsets. Well, at least most of us do, I know at least one colleague flying with an 80€ GA headset, but  that's a different topic.
Under my ANR headset I hardly hear the engines at all. It even goes so far that sometimes in cruise I put my Bose ANR headphones over my aviation headset, just to get that additional ANR.
Then it becomes totally quiet. Well, at least except for the aircraft sounds picked up by our microphones which are then returned into the system. When the intercom is turned off though you don't hear a thing anymore. Total silence!
And honestly, that's how I like it the most at work ;)

Yet when sitting at my sim at home my flatmates usually complain my sim is too loud. That's life, isn't it? ;)

 

That's a great idea.  I have frequency deafness from years of having my ear drums exposed to the same sounds (rectifiers, fans, pumps, air noise, etc. etc. etc.).  I keep explaining to my wife that's why I don't hear her (but she's not buying it!  LOL).

 

You may not be able to hear the engine whine, but protecting your ears now will means you'll be able to hear the whine of your significant other in the years to come. ;):)

 

 

 

 

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