nakis03 3 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Hello AEROSOFT please fly with this route LGAV-EHAM with bellow parameters and you will notice low speeds to FMGS .after take off the aircraft doesnt keep v2+10 but the speed drops a lot with result of ALPHA FLOOR and then TOGALOCK I believe the problem is according with weights and fuels for long routes and the performance of aircraft regards Drassos John FO A320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Same problem here. In long flights, when the fuel is over 11.000 and the payload similar with this in my screenshot the Airbus has very bizarre behavior. The same with John plus the N1 is very difficult to raise up and the V2 is already below the stall speed in takeoff procedure with TOGA or MAN FLEX. after Takeoff The aircraft strangles to keep flying in the air and goes A.Floor mode. Also is very very abnormally heavy !!! Airbus X v1.15 With hotfix 018c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcltm3 1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'd like to see the response to this possible anomaly too. Any real world bus drivers care to provide us with some input here? - would be most welcome indeed. I'd like to hear their thoughts/experience. I'm not a "bus" driver traditionally. However, I have found the same phenomena with the Aerosoft A320.as the OP. To me, it seems there is a "possible" issue regarding thrust to weight ratio, coupled with the data in the FMGC. I rarely can get the engines to exceed 90% N1 at take-off. (De-rated) I'm only taking short hops (in comparison to the OP) in the A320 of a duration of 1 to 1.30 hours. Fuel load gets to around 8 tons all up. Passengers full (150) and about 3 tons of cargo. My take off run is a little too long considering my load-out. This is not a criticism, but simply an observation. Rgds, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galskiman 1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I tried your flight out. The AXE behaves normal. Perhaps you would try the flight again and try it with my data. I took the load and fuel data from Vasilis (changed the CG to 33% (fuelplanner and aircraft), 1.0 unit DN trim). Take off Data : V1 150kts, VR 150,V2 155 FlexTemp 62C , Flaps Config 2 (I changed the original FMS data V1,VR,V2 and FlexTemp Data). Route from Nakis03.Take off with MANFlex not TOGA. To make it complete : Weather QNH 1021, Temp 24°C, Wind VD 3kts cheers Galskiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I tried your flight out. The AXE behaves normal. Perhaps you would try the flight again and try it with my data. I took the load and fuel data from Vasilis (changed the CG to 33% (fuelplanner and aircraft), 1.0 unit DN trim). Take off Data : V1 150kts, VR 150,V2 155 FlexTemp 62C , Flaps Config 2 (I changed the original FMS data V1,VR,V2 and FlexTemp Data). Route from Nakis03.Take off with MANFlex not TOGA. To make it complete : Weather QNH 1021, Temp 24°C, Wind VD 3kts cheers Galskiman Galskiman i have the same issue with your DATA to. And if you noticed on Nakis03 first screenshot the V2/160 knots is still on the RED area. For that reason the plane gos A.Floor. After all the problem is not only with the speed issue but with engine N1 behavior that is extremely difficult to raise from 0% to 85% and the heavy weight behavior of the Airbus to ... with my settings similar to Nakis03 the second point (710^) after take off on FMGS change extremely low to 15- knots without any reason. and with ~145-150 V2 the Aircraft is so havy weight that the 12,467 feet of rwy on LGAV is not enough to takeoff :-) This is NOT AN AIRBUS!!!! my friend the problem has extremely to do with the FDE issues of the very design of that plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 After all Nakis03 (John Drassos is his real name) it is a real Frozen ATPL pilot with many of many of many hours on that type of plane. And i have many of many hours on real life full motion Simulator on Lufthansa's Pilot Training Center in Munich that type of plane to. So both of us WE KNOW EXACTLY how that plane Flight! Αnd the two of us, we are friends, do not write those problems intend to "fool" anyone, just trying to identify the mistakes and issues, of a product that we have paid for, and we're happy to see it growing so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galskiman 1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 @Vasilis : I don't say that you both are not able to fly this plane. I only found out that if I put the CG at 25% I got the the same iusse like you. But if I put 33% CG (trim for performance, you know) and 1 unit DN into the fuelplanner AND the aircraft (Init PageB / Takeoff page) everything works fine. Just my two cents. Galskiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakis03 3 Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Dear my friend you are very lucky ..)) i dont know if aerosoft following this topic I dont see any answer from them... ... and i dont know why. We are working as bus drivers and we are following ... the topic Please aerosoft join with us ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 And the problem is NOT what Aircraft do ... "IF"... But What Aircraft do ... "When"!!! ... so "IF" i flight with an empty aircraft and 6.000kgs of fuel or 25% CG or whatever else .... perhaps i have no problem at all. But WHEN we put this model to THIS circumstances as we have described earliest the Airbus X don't flying as it should. And i am looking forward to. For an official Aerosoft!! Answer for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galskiman 1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I just wanted to help. That's why I noted that this error has something to do with the trim or the CG. I have used your data and only changed the CG and trim accordingly. Whether that is a realistic CG value or not, I do not know, I'm not a pilot. So if an Airbus with nearly 69 tons of take-offWeight may have a CG of 25% or not you need to know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 CG does not affect Stall Speed calculation. The only reason for such high stall speeds is overweight. Post pictures with the Lower ECAM GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Ok lets do it once again. Flight plan LGAV-EHAM N0456F380 PIKAD UL53 GARTA UV62 YNN UL604 NOVLO/N0451F400 UL604 BIGGE T281 NORKU/0314 WITH AN EMPTY Aircraft this time!!! NOTICED THAT THE SECOND POINT (710^) DROPS TO 15 KONTS!!!! THIS IS COMPLETE UNACCEPTABLE GW = 52790 Empty Aircraft with 11,6 kg fuel Takeoff MAN FLX 67* SRS RWY A/THR BLUE. STALL STALL STALL!!!! :-S The V speeds is that the FMGS calculate for that EMPTY Aircraft from LGAV to EHAM... :-) And i can't change the CG% (this is normal) if the aircraft is empty, with only the fuel. is that clear now that the aircraft flight like crap??? or not!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galskiman 1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I can understand that Probelm. I tried the flight again with Vasilis data and the machine is not going to fly. But I think ,with the trim it has apparently something to do, because I have noticed the following. If you move the trim wheel first time to set the trim , in the FCL page only ".3" is displayed. The zero is missing. If you turn the wheel on, so you get over 1.0 and then turn back to 0.3, the zero is suddenly displayed.Nothing big at first I thought but : If you make the take off with the ".3" displayed at the FCL page (to mean so without reaching the value of 1.0 previously) , the planes behaves like Vasilis describes. Taking off with "0.3" displayed ( mean first trim up to 1.0 then back to 0.3 ) the bus flies normally. Maybe a bug in the initialization of the trim ? cheers Galskiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 ....On takeoff the aircraft will “blend” from direct to normal law as it goes from ground mode to flight mode. This means that the backpressure that you need to hold the nose up will reduce to zero once normal law autotrim activates. You will usually not really notice this change as the aircraft will be climbing quickly but you will learn to release the backpressure around 100 to 200 ft. as the trim kicks in or the nose will “balloon”. <---- Copy paste from US Airways Airbus A320 Training Department Notes (Copyright 1999-2008) Actually after take of you don't need to Trim an Autotrim Aircraft! You must learn only how to "manage" with your stick. This airplane maintains a constant acceleration, so trim, and side stick inputs to pitch don't change your speed. In a "normal" airplane the trim lifts the nose to compensate for flap deployment, and you slow down.The A320 will adjust the Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer and autothrottle so keep the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 And how the real one A320 flying!!! (sorry for the low resolution photo i have copied from low resolution video)GW=69900 Trim if you noticed is the 0.3 nose Down. VR=143 ... AND OF COURSE ... no A.Floor to Toga lock ... no nothing with +2500 VS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1246 353 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 We know how the real Airbus works, but give us some time to check this issue. and keep in mind, it is weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 We know how the real Airbus works, but give us some time to check this issue. and keep in mind, it is weekend. NOW you talking right!!! At least but not last a good answer!!! if you need Any help looking on this issue just let me know. THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 NOTICED THAT THE SECOND POINT (710^) DROPS TO 15 KONTS!!!! THIS IS COMPLETE UNACCEPTABLE If you had the patience to wait for the MCDU to refresh the predictions after you entered V2, you will see correct values. The V speeds is that the FMGS calculate for that EMPTY Aircraft from LGAV to EHAM... :-) And i can't change the CG% (this is normal) if the aircraft is empty, with only the fuel. is that clear now that the aircraft flight like crap??? or not!!! What is clear is that something is clearly wrong on yours and a few others systems. Clearly the Stall speed is not calculated right on your (and a few others for the matter) systems for some reason. Please attempt a reinstall of the Airbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakis03 3 Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 i Reinstall a lot of times the product ...additional the " patience " is not always... long routes are facing a lot of problems with speeds ... " The patience " you have told appears only for short routes... please try to fly the route LGAV- EHAM and when you are doing this you will see that your speeds ~ 100..~ 112 and not a patience but either years of patience safe the situation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galskiman 1 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 ....On takeoff the aircraft will “blend” from direct to normal law as it goes from ground mode to flight mode. This means that the backpressure that you need to hold the nose up will reduce to zero once normal law autotrim activates. You will usually not really notice this change as the aircraft will be climbing quickly but you will learn to release the backpressure around 100 to 200 ft. as the trim kicks in or the nose will “balloon”. <---- Copy paste from US Airways Airbus A320 Training Department Notes (Copyright 1999-2008) Actually after take of you don't need to Trim an Autotrim Aircraft! You must learn only how to "manage" with your stick. This airplane maintains a constant acceleration, so trim, and side stick inputs to pitch don't change your speed. In a "normal" airplane the trim lifts the nose to compensate for flap deployment, and you slow down.The A320 will adjust the Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer and autothrottle so keep the speed. I never touch the trim wheel after puhsing the thrust lever towards for take off roll, believe me. I know something about autotrim and FBW.I talked about the trim that had do be done before takeoff. At this trim I see this strange behavieour.If this is the reason for the iusse? I don't know. But perhaps it helps the developers for their investigation cheers galskiman PS: And to make it clear, I have no problem with the AXE, because I adjust my CG in that way, I have to use trim DN values of at least 1.0. This is my way to fly the Airbus and then he flies properly and I'm just satisfied. I try to help you, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 If you had the patience to wait for the MCDU to refresh the predictions after you entered V2, you will see correct values. What is clear is that something is clearly wrong on yours and a few others systems. Clearly the Stall speed is not calculated right on your (and a few others for the matter) systems for some reason. Please attempt a reinstall of the Airbus. And if YOU have notice i have calculate 15 min of taxing in LGAV from parking position to the Rwy... is this NOT enough time for an Airbus to calculate the correct stall speed? i need more "Patience" ? ok next time perhaps i waiting on holding position 30 min before take of for those calculations!! And is that CLEAR that this piece of shit flying like Crap from the very first version until now, And i Have paid for this and YES in MY system i have that problem like a few others, who's also paid for that shit and you as Developer have an obligation to respect them and see what problem have. Because of this is not freeware! package?. tree times Reinstalling of this product is fair enough for me... now can you please -PLEASE- correct this package, Because i need patience with you guys and not with my software and my system which i flying fair and good some other truly GOOD products that i have paid for and this is not Aerosofts Airbus. Patience is to paid for an unfinished product with hundreds of bugs and updates and hot-fixes just to Support the developers... and the developers behaviour like you Josha! now i need patience YES! And of course this is the last time to buy product of Aerosoft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Firstly, Calm down and read carefully. And if YOU have notice i have calculate 15 min of taxing in LGAV from parking position to the Rwy... is this NOT enough time for an Airbus to calculate the correct stall speed? i need more "Patience" ? ok next time perhaps i waiting on holding position 30 min before take of for those calculations!! 15 min of taxi ok, fine. But is that 15 min after you entered V2? And is that CLEAR that this piece of shit flying like Crap from the very first version until now, And i Have paid for this and YES in MY system i have that problem like a few others, who's also paid for that shit and you as Developer have an obligation to respect them and see what problem have. Because of this is not freeware! package?. Okay, if you are telling me from the very first version, nothing has changed till now, then its very obvious to me that something is not right, because from the very first version, MANY things have changed. Perhaps you might be exaggerating, but if not, I am seriously baffled. tree times Reinstalling of this product is fair enough for me... I do not know that you have re installed three times. (I cant read your mind and this is the first time I am seeing this issue). The next question would be did you restart between each re install attempts? Patience is to paid for an unfinished product with hundreds of bugs and updates and hot-fixes just to Support the developers... and the developers behaviour like you Josha! now i need patience YES! http://forum.avsim.net/topic/403257-a-new-ngx-version-of-the-wonderful-md-11/page-9#entry2719070 There are a bazillion bugs in real life mission-critical software like the FMCs, the AFDS etc. To expect us to produce a 100% bug free in all situations simulation of an aircraft that costs several hundred million dollars for $70 or whatever is pretty much impossible. If even Boeing with their hundreds of billions of dollars in resources can't do that, how exactly do you think a team of only 10 or so people here can? and the developers behaviour like you Josha! now i need patience YES! And of course this is the last time to buy product of Aerosoft! Ok, since you do not like my support, I shall hand you over to more professional support people. Contact support@aerosoft.com for any further support on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 i Reinstall a lot of times the product ...additional the " patience " is not always... long routes are facing a lot of problems with speeds ... " The patience " you have told appears only for short routes... please try to fly the route LGAV- EHAM and when you are doing this you will see that your speeds ~ 100..~ 112 and not a patience but either years of patience safe the situation.... I have tested with this route and have not encountered the same. Please do me a favour, Proceed to : C:\Users\YourName\Documents\Aerosoft\AerosoftAirbusExtended and attach the MCDUFPLNCSTRData.txt after you entered V2, CRZ FL, ZFW, CI and FPLN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Yes! now talking like a real developer... wait a minute... i have make a 4th reinstall right now... and i am trying again. Then i send you back the file that you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasilis Sevastopoulos 34 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 ... I have make complete unistall... then reinstall... and of course Restart! now i have a new problem! look at the screenshot. MCDUFPLNCSTRData.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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