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So I just found an issue and I am not sure if this a specific airport event or not... However, when entering a flight plan from VNKT to VQPR, in the arrivals section if you select rnav 33 x, via subsu1, and then next page trans PR888 (just clicking PR888), this causes the simulator to immediately hard lock. I replicated this issue 3 times last night on stream, I thought it may have been an external livery issue potentially, but I check again this morning and same results. I have done this with both the MSFS and Navigraph airac data. I did test this in my trusted CJ4, and I did not experience the same issue.

 

Edit: It appears this is something to do with PR888 for VQPR, just alone selecting VQPR as final, then pr888 as a trans immediately causes the simulator to hard lock.

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1 minute ago, Mathijs Kok said:

And are you on version 1.0.0.0 or 1.0.0.1?

1.0.0.1 FS Marketplace, Microsoft Store Edition of FS2020

 

Keep in mind this only happens with the PR888 trans... No other trans does this for VQPR

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1 minute ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Okay we will add this to the list of things to check, thanks for the report!

Thank you again for your time! Glad this thread did not get hijacked like my last one did. Appreciate you!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I can confirm that entering a flightplan to VQRP locks up MSFS.  In particular if you try choosing any runway apart from 15Y.  Tried this numerous times, lockup each time requiring shutting down MSFS and restarting.  

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Hey there Aerosoft Team. Last night, I experienced this issue for the first time. I was entering a flight plan from KSAN to KLAX in the CRJ 700. While entering the arrival page for KLAX, my plane locked up and I could not do anything. EFB stopped working and all switches were inop (Tried to change brightness on displays, turn on logo lights, ect, nothing worked). I then exited game and restarted at KSAN again, this time in the CRJ 550. While entering arrival data again for KLAX, my sim locked up, however this time i couldn't even free look in the cockpit and had to CTL+ALT+Delete to task manager to close game.  

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@Mathijs KokI have just experienced the same issue as @quasiguru. I have been demonstrating this product that i love to a solid following on twitch! I praise it and try to showcase it in a positive light as much as possible. But tonight we had anticipated to fly VECC to VQPR. The moment we selected RNAV15-Z in the fmc to prepare our arrival the sim totally froze. The only option was task manager and a force close. After streaming I tried again for the exact same result. Here is a small clip i can delete after. Just so you can see exactly. https://clips.twitch.tv/EasyAliveSardineTriHard-Vs7M4G9Ez9JSSFk8. Appreciate any response! 

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3 hours ago, Aaron McIntosh said:

@Mathijs KokI have just experienced the same issue as @quasiguru. I have been demonstrating this product that i love to a solid following on twitch! I praise it and try to showcase it in a positive light as much as possible. But tonight we had anticipated to fly VECC to VQPR. The moment we selected RNAV15-Z in the fmc to prepare our arrival the sim totally froze. The only option was task manager and a force close. After streaming I tried again for the exact same result. Here is a small clip i can delete after. Just so you can see exactly. https://clips.twitch.tv/EasyAliveSardineTriHard-Vs7M4G9Ez9JSSFk8. Appreciate any response! 

That is an RNP RNAV approach, and no real CRJ is capable of flying this (or any other RNAV RNP approach). The lockup I believe is related to the RF arc segments in the approach coding. There is a bug in the current 1.0.0.1 version that can cause a lockup with any ARC leg. This has already been fixed for the next update.

 

However - even if that bug did not exist - there is no guarantee that the sim CRJ will fly this approach anywhere close to correctly, nor is there any way it can be made to do so. RNP approaches contain special types of navigational legs that are unique to RNP, and the real Collins FMS4200 and Proline 4 autopilot have no ability to interpret or track those kinds of navigational commands - nor does the sim version, because the FMS was coded in accordance with the Rockwell Collins operating manual for the real FMS4200.

 

In a real CRJ, no RNAV approach marked “RNP AR” will even appear in the FMS database. The database supplied with the simulator (from Lufthansa) contains every approach for every airport, including RNP AR procedures that the CRJ cannot actually fly. There is no easy way to filter them out of the database without running the risk of eliminating standard RNAV approaches that the CRJ can fly with no issue.

 

So, even when the current bug with arc turns is fixed, if you want to try flying this approach, it is highly unlikely that the airplane will track it the way it is depicted on the chart. It will do the best it can - but it is unlikely to work right.

 

The long and the short is to exercise caution with any approach marked “RNP” on the official chart, and to expect the unexpected. If flying the CRJ for fun, by all means try any approach you want. If you are flying for a VA or any other situation where making a successful landing “counts”, my advice would be to avoid any approach listed as “RNP”

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7 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

That is an RNP RNAV approach, and no real CRJ is capable of flying this (or any other RNAV RNP approach). The lockup I believe is related to the RF arc segments in the approach coding. There is a bug in the current 1.0.0.1 version that can cause a lockup with any ARC leg. This has already been fixed for the next update.

 

However - even if that bug did not exist - there is no guarantee that the sim CRJ will fly this approach anywhere close to correctly, nor is there any way it can be made to do so. RNP approaches contain special types of navigational legs that are unique to RNP, and the real Collins FMS4200 and Proline 4 autopilot have no ability to interpret or track those kinds of navigational commands - nor does the sim version, because the FMS was coded in accordance with the Rockwell Collins operating manual for the real FMS4200.

 

In a real CRJ, no RNAV approach marked “RNP AR” will even appear in the FMS database. The database supplied with the simulator (from Lufthansa) contains every approach for every airport, including RNP AR procedures that the CRJ cannot actually fly. There is no easy way to filter them out of the database without running the risk of eliminating standard RNAV approaches that the CRJ can fly with no issue.

 

So, even when the current bug with arc turns is fixed, if you want to try flying this approach, it is highly unlikely that the airplane will track it the way it is depicted on the chart. It will do the best it can - but it is unlikely to work right.

 

The long and the short is to exercise caution with any approach marked “RNP” on the official chart, and to expect the unexpected. If flying the CRJ for fun, by all means try any approach you want. If you are flying for a VA or any other situation where making a successful landing “counts”, my advice would be to avoid any approach listed as “RNP”

Thanks so much for the response.

 

This makes alot of sense now! I usually fly these approaches by hand using the waypoints as a guide if there is not a published visual. 

 

However I have found the plane can fly the RNP RWY09 into LXGB successfully with everything working. This approach displays on the Nav Display as it is mapped on the charts. However for the RNP Z RWY5 at LPMA for example, this approach only displays the waypoints. Because as you say the plane is not capable to fly this approach I assume.  I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for to be able to determine if the plane can or canot fly the approach due to this. 

 

Nevertheless this is an amazing product and I'm proud to showcase it and keep learning along the way. 

 

Also thanks for VNAV! 

 

Thanks a million! 

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9 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

That is an RNP RNAV approach, and no real CRJ is capable of flying this (or any other RNAV RNP approach). The lockup I believe is related to the RF arc segments in the approach coding. There is a bug in the current 1.0.0.1 version that can cause a lockup with any ARC leg. This has already been fixed for the next update.

 

However - even if that bug did not exist - there is no guarantee that the sim CRJ will fly this approach anywhere close to correctly, nor is there any way it can be made to do so. RNP approaches contain special types of navigational legs that are unique to RNP, and the real Collins FMS4200 and Proline 4 autopilot have no ability to interpret or track those kinds of navigational commands - nor does the sim version, because the FMS was coded in accordance with the Rockwell Collins operating manual for the real FMS4200.

 

In a real CRJ, no RNAV approach marked “RNP AR” will even appear in the FMS database. The database supplied with the simulator (from Lufthansa) contains every approach for every airport, including RNP AR procedures that the CRJ cannot actually fly. There is no easy way to filter them out of the database without running the risk of eliminating standard RNAV approaches that the CRJ can fly with no issue.

 

So, even when the current bug with arc turns is fixed, if you want to try flying this approach, it is highly unlikely that the airplane will track it the way it is depicted on the chart. It will do the best it can - but it is unlikely to work right.

 

The long and the short is to exercise caution with any approach marked “RNP” on the official chart, and to expect the unexpected. If flying the CRJ for fun, by all means try any approach you want. If you are flying for a VA or any other situation where making a successful landing “counts”, my advice would be to avoid any approach listed as “RNP”

@JRBarrettI am sure this issue is being patched... But here is what I noticed, it is anytime RNP is in brackets in the title of the chart that it causes generally a Simulator hard lock, or a WASM crash. I just tested this out on 10 different airports same behavior everytime if RNP is in brackets (RNP) in the title of the chart. This might be something to add for the devs to look into. (Hard Sim Crash or WASM Crash)

image.thumb.png.f0c81d9a341bc617b8a9dceb69ebcf59.png

Juxtaposted to without RNP being in brackets... (No Hard Sim lockup or WASM Crash)

image.thumb.png.b69231446a5673a5d622f736424e19b9.png

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9 minutes ago, quasiguru said:

@JRBarrettI am sure this issue is being patched... But here is what I noticed, it is anytime RNP is in brackets in the title of the chart that it causes generally a Simulator hard lock, or a WASM crash. I just tested this out on 10 different airports same behavior everytime if RNP is in brackets (RNP) in the title of the chart. This might be something to add for the devs to look into. (Hard Sim Crash or WASM Crash)

image.thumb.png.f0c81d9a341bc617b8a9dceb69ebcf59.png

Juxtaposted to without RNP being in brackets... (No Hard Sim lockup or WASM Crash)

image.thumb.png.b69231446a5673a5d622f736424e19b9.png

I’m pretty sure this is fixed in the current development version, but I will check this specific approach and see what happens.

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8 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

I’m pretty sure this is fixed in the current development version, but I will check this specific approach and see what happens.

Thanks @JRBarretttotally appreciate your work... Like I said it only occurs with RNP in brackets.. Otherwise it will either fly it or it won't, but of course no sim crashing or wasm issues... I already understand the bit about it not always being able to fly it, but this is what I just documented from my recent testing today.

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1 hour ago, Aaron McIntosh said:

Thanks so much for the response.

 

This makes alot of sense now! I usually fly these approaches by hand using the waypoints as a guide if there is not a published visual. 

 

However I have found the plane can fly the RNP RWY09 into LXGB successfully with everything working. This approach displays on the Nav Display as it is mapped on the charts. However for the RNP Z RWY5 at LPMA for example, this approach only displays the waypoints. Because as you say the plane is not capable to fly this approach I assume.  I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for to be able to determine if the plane can or canot fly the approach due to this. 

 

Nevertheless this is an amazing product and I'm proud to showcase it and keep learning along the way. 

 

Also thanks for VNAV! 

 

Thanks a million! 

Some RNP approaches are not much different than a standard RNAV approach, perhaps they may have a constant radius turn to final, while the rest of the approach is generic - these the sim CRJ will probably handle without much issue, though you would want to monitor it closely to insure the aircraft does not do something unexpected. 
 

The RNP approach at VQPR is extremely complex however, with multiple curved segments designed to precisely follow the contours of a narrow valley. The nav display not would depict this correctly, nor fly it under autopilot control within the extremely narrow lateral deviation limits required. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, quasiguru said:

Thanks @JRBarretttotally appreciate your work... Like I said it only occurs with RNP in brackets.. Otherwise it will either fly it or it won't, but of course no sim crashing or wasm issues... I already understand the bit about it not always being able to fly it, but this is what I just documented from my recent testing today.

I have verified in the current development version that the RNP-Z at KLGA does not crash. In fact I am flying it now using the Milton 4 arrival. I did have to delete the last two STAR waypoints in order to transition to the approach at MINKS without backtracking.

 

This particular RNP approach should not be a problem for the sim CRJ. The main reason it is RNP is because it requires RNP 0.18 lateral accuracy and full VNAV which the real CRJ autopilot cannot provide, but other than that, it is relatively straightforward.

 

I also loaded a couple of other RNP approaches in the US, with no lockups.

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