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CTD after update while entering in fms


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hi 

this happened to me about 4 times. 

i updated crj, trying to do a flight YVR - YLW. 

while programming fms to YLW arr, get a CTD, specifically when i click RNAV34-Z

 

was able to do this flight before update.

thanks

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1 hour ago, flyingravi said:

hi 

this happened to me about 4 times. 

i updated crj, trying to do a flight YVR - YLW. 

while programming fms to YLW arr, get a CTD, specifically when i click RNAV34-Z

 

was able to do this flight before update.

thanks

 

What was your full flightplan? I will check this. I should point out that that the RNAV34-Z is an RNP/AR approach and no real world CRJ is authorized (or even capable) of flying this particular procedure.

 

However, if you were able to load the approach before and now get a crash, there may be a problem.


The provided nav database in the sim version contains every approach procedure for every airport, but not all of those procedures are actually useable by a r/w CRJ. This approach would not appear as a selectable option in the FMS of an actual CRJ for CYLW - only the ILS and standard RNAV approaches to runway 16 would be shown.

 

It is best to avoid any approaches marked “RNP” with the sim CRJ.

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27 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

The provided nav database in the sim version contains every approach procedure for every airport, but not all of those procedures are actually useable by a r/w CRJ. This approach would not appear as a selectable option in the FMS of an actual CRJ for CYLW - only the ILS and standard RNAV approaches to runway 16 would be shown.

 

It is best to avoid any approaches marked “RNP” with the sim CRJ.

Ooh, Interesting!

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vor 8 Stunden , flyingravi sagte:

hi 

this happened to me about 4 times. 

i updated crj, trying to do a flight YVR - YLW. 

while programming fms to YLW arr, get a CTD, specifically when i click RNAV34-Z

 

was able to do this flight before update.

thanks

The same happened to me yesterday. Selecting the RNAV34 in CYLW locks up the entire flightsim. The route i wanted to enter was: cyvr janek sekab sekab4 rnav34z cylw

Even though our CRJ is not certified for this approach, i don't think it should kill the fmc... ;) is it true that no CRJ is able to fly an RNP approach? Looking at an official  brochure about the features of the CRj from 2017 its says under advanced cockpit features: "Required Navigation Performance Approach 0.3 (RNP APCH 0.3". (https://commercialaircraft.bombardier.com/themes/bca/pdf/Bombardier_CRJ_Series_Brochure.pdf p. 27)

kind regards chris

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That was the same flight plan as well JRbarrett. (JANEK SEKAB SEKAB4)
 

I even had it freeze when I just select plain old rwy 34 at YLW. 

 

I just ended up doing a tailwind landing on 16 that ils didn’t really properly capture lol

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8 hours ago, Chrjs said:

The same happened to me yesterday. Selecting the RNAV34 in CYLW locks up the entire flightsim. The route i wanted to enter was: cyvr janek sekab sekab4 rnav34z cylw

Even though our CRJ is not certified for this approach, i don't think it should kill the fmc... ;) is it true that no CRJ is able to fly an RNP approach? Looking at an official  brochure about the features of the CRj from 2017 its says under advanced cockpit features: "Required Navigation Performance Approach 0.3 (RNP APCH 0.3". (https://commercialaircraft.bombardier.com/themes/bca/pdf/Bombardier_CRJ_Series_Brochure.pdf p. 27)

kind regards chris

It can do a basic RNP approach, but not one marked “RNP/AR” (The AR stands for “authorization required”) AR approaches have extremely tight lateral and vertical performance requirements that neither the autopilot nor FMS of the real CRJ is capable of meeting.

 

On US approach charts, if an approach is AR, it will appear as part of the approach name at the top of the plate. On Canadian charts, the “Authorization Required” notice appears as part of the text description. I think this is also true on European approach charts.

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1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

It can do a basic RNP approach, but not one marked “RNP/AR” (The AR stands for “authorization required”) AR approaches have extremely tight lateral and vertical performance requirements that neither the autopilot nor FMS of the real CRJ is capable of meeting.

 

Fortunately, the MSFS 2020 ATC has never given me a phone number to call after I land for doing something without authorization 🤣

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32 minutes ago, FlyByWire128 said:

 

Fortunately, the MSFS 2020 ATC has never given me a phone number to call after I land for doing something without authorization 🤣

It’s true that in the sim, nobody would care if flying a particular procedure is “legal” under real-world operating rules. That is not the problem.

 

As mentioned, both Aerosoft NavDataPro and Navigraph give you every approach at every airport in the FMS database files they provide for the CRJ and every other add-on they support. There are some flight sim add-on aircraft that can indeed fly all parts of a r/w RNP/AR procedure with 100 accuracy. I know that the Zibo 737 in X-Plane can, and I believe the FSL A320 can as well.


The issue is that because of the coding in the nav database that is unique to an RNP AR approach, there is no guarantee that the CRJ FMS or autopilot in the sim will be able to fly the procedure at all, or will fly it anything close to accurately. It is entirely likely that it might “try” to do something with it. At best, the waypoint names on the MFD will not be correct, and it definitely will not correctly display or fly the curved RF leg segments that are often of an AR procedure. There is no code in the sim FMS to interpret some of the unique commands found only in AR procedures, nor will there be, because this is not something the real aircraft can do. 

 

If it were up to me, I would put a filter in the FMS so that RNP/AR approaches do not display as selectable approaches at airports where they exist just as in the real CRJ, but that is not my call to make.
 

There have already been complaints because the FMS will not load airports with runways shorter than 4,500 feet, even though that is 100 percent accurate to the real aircraft.

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Another example that not every aircraft can fly every approach:
For London City (EGLC) is a "Steep Approach" available. This requires special equipment  in an aircraft and therefore Aerosoft realized this for the A318 Pro (and only the A318) for P3D.

But no idea whether this will be possible/happen in MFS.

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37 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

There have already been complaints because the FMS will not load airports with runways shorter than 4,500 feet, even though that is 100 percent accurate to the real aircraft.

 

Yes, most folks don't understand that they are becoming test pilots when they operate outside of the capabilities of the aircraft, especially one that has been modeled to match real world operations like the CRJ (or they don't understand that there are things like runway length limitations or performance capabilities).  I was only hoping to lighten the mood with my comment...

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3 hours ago, flyingravi said:

Thanks did you also replicate the issue to “plain” runway 34 as well?

(not the rnav) 

Yes. I will report this It’s evidently not just the approach.

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