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magna91

Climb slow

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Hello,

After the updated 1.2.1.5 the climb is so so slow. I started from EGKK with this route "EGKK BIG T420 TNT UN57 POL UN601 ABEVI UN590 GOW ... " and it the airway UN590 i have arrived at the FL340. I don't know if in the real life the climb is so slow, but I do not think so slow :)  

It is another problem I have encountered regarding the insertion of the A/P: I have insert the A/P1 as I always do, and he started to lower the nose of the A321 without even accelerating, so I went to stall! I had to unplug the A/P1 to gain altitude and so started the climb. All of this with the altitude set at 8000 feet and managed by the MCDU.

I hope I explained myself

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26 minutes ago, magna91 said:

Hello,

After the updated 1.2.1.5 the climb is so so slow. I started from EGKK with this route "EGKK BIG T420 TNT UN57 POL UN601 ABEVI UN590 GOW ... " and it the airway UN590 i have arrived at the FL340. I don't know if in the real life the climb is so slow, but I do not think so slow :)  

It is another problem I have encountered regarding the insertion of the A/P: I have insert the A/P1 as I always do, and he started to lower the nose of the A321 without even accelerating, so I went to stall! I had to unplug the A/P1 to gain altitude and so started the climb. All of this with the altitude set at 8000 feet and managed by the MCDU.

I hope I explained myself

 

 

Sorry to hear that you've experienced an issue. 

 

Can I ask what your loadout was (PAX, Cargo, Fuel) and what the two airports were you were flying from/to?

 

What I'm thinking is that you didn't have all the pre-flight values entered, especially on the second page of the INIT page.  Also, almost 100% necessary to ensure that you update your wind data prior to departure and during the flight helps as well.  Give those two things a try and see if it resolves things for you.

 

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

 

Best wishes.

 

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Hi Dave,
image.thumb.png.77370c4a13174bb69fee727dd534656b.png

This is mi payload.

 

The wind I updated it before the taxi and after every hour of flight. Before the update with the same payload, it climb much faster.

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WOW!  You're flying an VERY heavy aircraft there my friend.

 

Do my a favor, and try doing the flight with 120 Pax and 3.0KG of cargo, and anywhere from 7 to 12 tons of fuel.

 

 

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As Dave said it's very important to give us the details.  If you tell me the climb is slow I have no reference.  I know what a slow climb in the real airplane is, but a slow climb to you might be normal under the weight and atmospheric conditions RW.

Just F.Y.I.

Based on your load out here are real world numbers. 

Climb Profile:  Max Climb Thrust  (250/300/.78) 

That's 250 below 10000, 300 KIAS until the transition to Mach then .78 until reaching cruise altitude.

 

Aircraft:  A321

ISA: Standard

TOW:  84T

ALT:  FL340

                      TIME      FUEL          DIST

CFM:              :28       2422 kg      183 NM

IAE:                :26       2260 kg      169 NM

 

Time your's the next time:  if you're within 5% of the RW numbers then you're fine, as the RW airplane isn't always exact with these numbers as well.

Just keep in mind, no level offs, no delayed climbs it's a straight shot up to that altitude and check your numbers.  Anything you do different from above will skew the numbers.

 

 

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Hello,

 

I also experienced a similar issue. The climb itself was as expected, but after updating to 1.2.1.5 the inital climb was very very slow. I took off in EDDF runway 07C with a takeoff weight of about 70t. I expect an inital climb angle of 15-20° after liftoff, but the flight director gave me only about 10°. At this low climb rate, I almost didn't climb and where only 2000ft above ground even after about 2min in the air.

 

Before the update, the climb was way steeper, but as we all know, too steep. The strange thing was, that after reaching the target speed of 250kt below 10.000ft, the rest of the climb seemed perfectly realistic. Only the inital climb was too slow. I can't even imagine, I could have stayed in the air, if my flight was with a higher weight for a 4h flight instead of my 45min flight from Frankfurt to Berlin...

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19 hours ago, Meyerflyer said:

Hello,

 

I also experienced a similar issue. The climb itself was as expected, but after updating to 1.2.1.5 the inital climb was very very slow. I took off in EDDF runway 07C with a takeoff weight of about 70t. I expect an inital climb angle of 15-20° after liftoff, but the flight director gave me only about 10°. At this low climb rate, I almost didn't climb and where only 2000ft above ground even after about 2min in the air.

 

Before the update, the climb was way steeper, but as we all know, too steep. The strange thing was, that after reaching the target speed of 250kt below 10.000ft, the rest of the climb seemed perfectly realistic. Only the inital climb was too slow. I can't even imagine, I could have stayed in the air, if my flight was with a higher weight for a 4h flight instead of my 45min flight from Frankfurt to Berlin...

 

Where you still in SRS mode (FLX or TOGA) or were you in CLB thrust in the Acceleration Phase (pitch down to accelerate and clean up) or were you clean and now climbing in Open Climb or CLB mode?  Details please.

 

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vor 13 Minuten, bill3810 sagte:

 

Where you still in SRS mode (FLX or TOGA) or were you in CLB thrust in the Acceleration Phase (pitch down to accelerate and clean up) or were you clean and now climbing in Open Climb or CLB mode?  Details please.

 

 

Hi, slow climb was at FLX and after retarding the thrust levers to CLB mode. Basically until reaching 250kt, then a "normal" climb followed. So it happened with flaps 1+F and with a clean configuration. I'm always using open climb, so I'm not limiting the climb rate in any way. For me and my feeling (I'm flying the Aerosoft Airbus for around 4-5 years now), the initial climb felt like I was 10t heavier than I was. The poor climb rate on initial climb didn't suit the relatively light weight of 70t on take off for the A321.

 

Interesting was also, that after switching to outside view, the wings were producing these vortex' on the wingtips and the aircraft pretty much "hang" on the engines, so the angle of attack was quite high without gaining according height during climb.

 

Configuration regarding loading at the gate was:

6.2t fuel

182 pax

2.4t cargo

flex temp as recommended by the computer, I think it was 57

 

If I can do anything to help you, please let me know. I could maybe fly the takeoff sequence on the weekend. Is there any possibility to make a video of the takeoff on an easy way and show it to you?

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Thanks for the formation.  Also be advised we are doing some mods on the performance of the aircraft so it could be an issue.  A video of takeoff to 10000 feet focusing on a closeup of Main Inst display PFD/ND/(EWD/SD) Would be great.  

 

Its not uncommong for the real aircraft, weight dependant, to pitch down from + 500 to +1500 fpm climb during acceleration phase.  I’ve seen 0 fpm and even a slight -100 fpm desc when heavy and turning at flaps 0 selection.  Usually after that it’s 2500 to 3500 fpm climbs up to 10000 depending on weight and atmospheric conditions.  A short video would be great.

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vor 18 Minuten, bill3810 sagte:

Thanks for the formation.  Also be advised we are doing some mods on the performance of the aircraft so it could be an issue.  A video of takeoff to 10000 feet focusing on a closeup of Main Inst display PFD/ND/(EWD/SD) Would be great.  

 

Its not uncommong for the real aircraft, weight dependant, to pitch down from + 500 to +1500 fpm climb during acceleration phase.  I’ve seen 0 fpm and even a slight -100 fpm desc when heavy and turning at flaps 0 selection.  Usually after that it’s 2500 to 3500 fpm climbs up to 10000 depending on weight and atmospheric conditions.  A short video would be great.

 

I'll do my best to take a video of it. Thanks for your support here and taking that serious.

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I had a little time today so I did a test run in the Airbus industries A321 CFM.  Here are my findings.

 

CFM Airbus Industries A321
TOW:  81.0 Tons
Weather: Standard Day
Airport:  KJFK/22R/TOGA Thrust/Conf 1+F
Climb Profile:  250/300/.78 (Open Climb) (Constant Heading 220)
Cruise Alt:  FL350

SRS:  +3200 FPM Climb
Acceleration Altitude:  Pitch down to +500 FPM Climb


Clean:  +3200 FPM Climb below 10,000 / Climb N1:  Appx 93.0 %
10000 - 20000:  +3000 to + 1500 FPM @ 300 KIAS Open Climb
20,000 - 30,500: +1500 FPM to + 600 FPM @ 300 KIAS Open Climb
Mach Transition:.78
30,500 - 35,000:  +800 to +500 FPM  M.78

 

Below are the values I recorded during the flight and are compared to the RW charts for the applicable engine and weight.

 

                             ALT    Time    Fuel    Distance
RW Charts 321    270    16:30    1635    96
AS 321                 270    16:10    1750    90


RW Charts 321    300    20:30    1850    121
AS 321                 300    20:15    2050    122

 

RW Charts 321    350    27:30    2340    178
AS321                  350    27:40    2520    179

 

Based on these numbers I don't see an issue however it's hard to say without seeing a video of what you did.

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Hey Bill. Excellent work!

 

Was thst with our latest Beta or the current customer/experimental version?

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Hey,

 

don't get me wrong. Since the latest experimental update, the climb profile itself seems to be pretty perfect. My problem was only with the inital climb until reaching 250kt. I tried reproducing this two days ago, but to my surprise, the two test-take offs looked different than before (?!). So at the moment, it seems I cannot reproduce my own issue report. :D

If I can help with any further information here and get something to report, I will be back. ;)

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58 minutes ago, Meyerflyer said:

Hey,

 

don't get me wrong. Since the latest experimental update, the climb profile itself seems to be pretty perfect. My problem was only with the inital climb until reaching 250kt. I tried reproducing this two days ago, but to my surprise, the two test-take offs looked different than before (?!). So at the moment, it seems I cannot reproduce my own issue report. :D

If I can help with any further information here and get something to report, I will be back. ;)

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to report issues and for your offer!

 

We are currently testing an update to the FMGS software that should resolve and tighten everything up.

 

Best wishes!

 

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On 11/24/2018 at 5:54 PM, DaveCT2003 said:

Hey Bill. Excellent work!

 

Was thst with our latest Beta or the current customer/experimental version?

 

Yes this was the most current beta at the time.  Maybe something else was messed up and just not noticed, I just wanted to see if something jumped right out at me.  Which I didn't really see anything at the moment..

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On 11/24/2018 at 8:26 PM, Meyerflyer said:

Hey,

 

don't get me wrong. Since the latest experimental update, the climb profile itself seems to be pretty perfect. My problem was only with the inital climb until reaching 250kt. I tried reproducing this two days ago, but to my surprise, the two test-take offs looked different than before (?!). So at the moment, it seems I cannot reproduce my own issue report. :D

If I can help with any further information here and get something to report, I will be back. ;)

 

Any time i'm beta testing the flight is recorded.  Well what I do is stream it privately so it's not much of a hit on my system and then I have a copy to go back and watch.  Some times you will mess up and not notice it in the middle of a takeoff as you are single pilot in a two pilot airplane and it's not later until you watch the video that you see your mistake.  There is a huge difference between really being in the airplane as a crew and sitting in front of your PC with a cup of coffee and bagel in your hand while you fly, surf the web, watch tv, fend of the cat and dog and answer your child's age old question... Why? :-)

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