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taguilo

Autopilot questions

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I'm in the process of optimizing the autopilot code but unfortunately I don't have the Collins 106 manual, therefore I have doubts on the way some modes should work:

1) The Pitch rocket in the center command seems to have no indicator of neutral/offset pitch position. I understand then that the FD horizontal bar should be that one, but it doesn't move up or down when I pitch up/dn using the rocket, is this ok in this case? It only repositions when engaging ALT or IAS mode.

2) In other Twotter autopilots I have good info (ie Honeywell H-14) the Pitch mode (rocket) is the default one when no other vertical mode is active (ALT/IAS). I guess should be the same case here, but the problem i found is when I disable ALT/IAS with AP on, it seems that pitch goes active indeed but I have no way to know what is the current pitch because the FD bar drops down to the bottom.

3) In H-14, when BANK/PITCH rockets are turned, any other Vert/Lat mode is automatically deselected.

In this case, when in ALT hold, turning the pitch rocket doesn't deselect ALT (or IAS) and the same for turning L/R with NAV/HEAD on. Is this correct?

I apologize if I am asking too much tech details.

Tom

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The only thing I can say is great work Tom, but do you think it would be prudent to hear a few words from the developers on this first. I for one certainly appreciate your efforts. And yes the Rocker action would be locked out when the Alt hold is in effect and would not cause a disconnect. That's if I understood that part of the question correctly.

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Tom, your enthusiasm and dedication do you credit, but Finn (the developer) is on vacation for 2.5 weeks.

It might be a good idea to wait a bit and work together after his return.

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You're right, let's wait until Finn's return. Maybe I am too enthusiastic because this is a great addon and, which is even better, its "open" code brings a chance to customize some systems in advance, which logically can't be included by default according to its market price. I am very grateful to the developers for having this possibility.

Tom

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The FD not showing the correct value during "manual mode" is a bug, I believe - I've sent Finn some input, which he hopefully will consider after he returns..

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I'm still reading the forums....

According to the manuals I have, the FD bars should NOT indicate anything in AP Manual mode. As far as I was able to undrrstand it, when manual mode is engsged the AP servos shoud be reset.

While it's fine to see the entusiasme enhancing my code, I must also emphasise that doing so means that we cannot give any support.

That said - I'm open for any code changes that will enhance the AP as long as we keep it realistic.

I see that some expects too much of this autopilot. Most Twotters where delivered without and operates for fom ILS equipped airports etc. But offcourse must the available modes do what they are supposed to do.

Finn

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I think that many questions regarding the manual modes are due to not knowing how they work. If you could explain briefly their which control surfaces are involved and how the rocker switches are working many questions would be answered.

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I think that many questions regarding the manual modes are due to not knowing how they work. If you could explain briefly their which control surfaces are involved and how the rocker switches are working many questions would be answered.

Systems Manual. Pages 19-20. It's all there. It's completely irrelevant `which control surfaces are involved` as it's the result that ounts. Basically what we have here, minor glitchces aside is a genuine autopilot that works like a real one - replete with faults, foibles and opportunity for pilot error.

Aerosoft are to be commended for this `warts and all` approach. Bad pilots are not.

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Hello,

First of all, it is pretty nice plane, and I am very happy with it. However, there is one little thing that I do not understand.
I thought that I had fiddled out the autopilot. But I have some troubles with the climb and/or descent rate.
It is allways going up. Between number 2 and 4 ft/min.
Everything I do gets a reaction. It trims it back.

When I set the autopilot, I click on altitude alert, after I have set an altidue I am aiming for. And as soon as the autopilot is engaged, the plane goes up like a rocket. Even to a stallspeed. But the plane wants to get to 4000 feet up.
I tried to correct that, with that button in the middle of the plane, where the 2 steering units come together. I roll my mousebutton in the direction to go down. That action is corrected by the plane, with the trim up.
If I use trim down or that button, it is correct with more trim.

When the altitude is reached, I see that the Alert stops burning and the ALT buttion is activated, and the plane levels off.

When I want to descent, I set the correct altitude, unswith ALT and click the Altitude alert. but even before I click that, does the plane shoot up with 2-4' per minute again. The only way down is pushing my yoke forward.
Even then I see the trim is correcting to go up again.
If I shut the autopilot off, the plane, still wants to climb.

To me, it feels, like an override. But where is the catch?

Greetings,

RobB

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Your loadout CG is wrong if your shooting straight up or down. Some movement up or down is acceptable, that's how a real AP reacts once manual flight is turned over to it. But going up or down like a rocket =Poor CG. As I've stated before, there are things that need to be looked at with the code in this AP imo. Its seems to be a combination of default and custom. The auto trim feature should not be coming on during climbs and descents while in manual mode and utilizing the rocker. Auto trim should be running in unison with the IAS, I believe. Could be wrong there. But to me, it looks like at times their fighting one another. But, if you load this aircraft correctly, even with the small issues right now with the AP you can have a near perfect flight. Climb and descent rates of up 1500 FPM, which is where you should be. The IAS, imo, should not be used till Finn has a proper look at it. But what do I know.

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Systems Manual. Pages 19-20. It's all there. It's completely irrelevant `which control surfaces are involved` as it's the result that ounts. Basically what we have here, minor glitchces aside is a genuine autopilot that works like a real one - replete with faults, foibles and opportunity for pilot error.

Aerosoft are to be commended for this `warts and all` approach. Bad pilots are not.

That might be your approach to flying this bird.

Some people, me included, are interested in how this works. This is absolutely not for blaming Aerosoft or other involved people for a glitchi autopilot. But as in other threads shown understanding the aircraft and its systems can lead to better flying.

I think bad pilots know just the manual and are clicking buttons like said there, good pilots know their aircraft and understand why they click this button.

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That might be your approach to flying this bird.

Some people, me included, are interested in how this works. This is absolutely not for blaming Aerosoft or other involved people for a glitchi autopilot. But as in other threads shown understanding the aircraft and its systems can lead to better flying.

I think bad pilots know just the manual and are clicking buttons like said there, good pilots know their aircraft and understand why they click this button.

This thing will all be worked out shortly, and we'll all end up understanding this Collins better than we probably wanted to. LOL.

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Your loadout CG is wrong if your shooting straight up or down. Some movement up or down is acceptable, that's how a real AP reacts once manual flight is turned over to it. But going up or down like a rocket =Poor CG. As I've stated before, there are things that need to be looked at with the code in this AP imo. Its seems to be a combination of default and custom. The auto trim feature should not be coming on during climbs and descents while in manual mode and utilizing the rocker. Auto trim should be running in unison with the IAS, I believe. Could be wrong there. But to me, it looks like at times their fighting one another. But, if you load this aircraft correctly, even with the small issues right now with the AP you can have a near perfect flight. Climb and descent rates of up 1500 FPM, which is where you should be. The IAS, imo, should not be used till Finn has a proper look at it. But what do I know.

Thank you for your answer.

The stupidity is, that I learned a friend how to use the autopilot. And he climbs and descents neatly. He is completely happy.

For the clarity, I only go up. Never down, unless I detach the autopilot and and press the yoke a bit forward, then I can descent how fast I want.

I am not saying it is the autopilot, but I think that the pressing that button in the middle is somehow part of it.

But to be honest as well, I had problems all the time, which I thought, because I did not understand the autopilot.

There was only one evening, that I had zero problems, and that was when I tried to fiddle out the autopilot and reading through the manual, and reading in this forum. Then I fiddled out how it works. Except for the take off where the plane went strait to 2000ft/min, I could press that button in the middle and bring it back to 1200. And when I went on descent, it first went up by 1200 and later started to descent. I cannot remember if I helped the system a hand or not but I could descent. The autopilot picked up the ILS and I had a nice descent and landing.

Where yesterday...

Now I read your words Loadout CG. I do not know what you mean with CG, but I understand the word loadout.

And that was the difference between yesterday and wednesday.

On wednesday I had not touched that tool for fuel, pax and cargo. The rest of the week I did.

What did I do, for my 100nm tour?

Loaded 20 pax, I think 400kg of cargo and 350kg of fuel.

My friend did not touch that tool either. So that might explain it. Besides that he used the cargo plane, where I used the passenger plane.

But is there a way, so that I can move the fat people to the front and the skinny ones to the rear? ;-)

I was more in the understanding that I could load the plane to its maximum. And there lies my problem I guess.

RobB

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CG is Center of Gravity, its just what you thought it was. If you place weight one place you must counter that weight equally.

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Yes that would explain it. That is also while I see the plane move the front a bit more in the air and the rear a bit more to the ground when I load it.
I had the idea but was not sure. Ok, I know what I am going to do this weekend. Fiddle a bit around with the loading tool.

Thank you for explaining it.

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Yes that would explain it. That is also while I see the plane move the front a bit more in the air and the rear a bit more to the ground when I load it.

I had the idea but was not sure. Ok, I know what I am going to do this weekend. Fiddle a bit around with the loading tool.

Thank you for explaining it.

I use the default FSX setup. Here's one scenario that I do for cargo. 200 Pilot, 200 First Officer, Rows 1 thru 7 300 in each, forward cargo 100, the remaining cargo compartments are left empty. 70% center tank, 70% center 2 tank. 40% in each wing tip, for piece of mind. Takeoff flaps 10 and trim set to 68 on the the trim wheel. After flap retraction, begin to re trim. This is in pounds by the way! That's is a gross weight of 11421 with a max gross being 12500. Flying distances beyond this fuel capacity, in this aircraft would make your rear end cry for mercy.

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Guys,

The TWotter autopilot has some issues that should be addressed, that has nothing to do with the CoG or alike, but are related to the gauge code and a proper interpretation of the way it should technically work . Please let's wait until Finn is back so surely he will take a look and, if he considers it would be suitable, make the corresponding ammends.

Tom

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It won't matter what is fixed, if the aircraft's load is not configured properly. I have very few issues with the AP when the aircraft is loaded right, apart from the IAS or minor rocker issue.

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Taguilo instead of reaching for the code, go read the manual.

LeadingEdge consistently hits the nail on the head, but still you want to to mess with the modellling.

Only one of you is right. Istrongly suggest you go fly, fly it right and we wait until the developers look at things.

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I strongly suggest you go fly, fly it right and we wait until the developers look at things.

This is indeed the way to go for now, and therefore we close this thread and wait for Finn to return.

I will put it on the "issues" list.

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