Considero 0 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi there, I have the Freight Dogs package and I have big problems with flying the Twin Beech. The Beaver gives no problem at all. Only a light tendency to turn left, but that is the way it is supposed to be. The problem starts directly during take-off. While the aircraft is still on the ground I already get the stall message. I take of with flaps 15 and trim neutral. When the aircraft carries no payload I manage to get into the air. But when I have 500 kg of payload with me I always crash. I am not a newbee. I have at least 2000 hours under my belt. My FS2004 is working just the way it should. I have no problem with any off the other aircrafts I have. I have Dreamfleet, Flight1, PSS, PMDG, FSD International, etc. I also have the Twin Beech from Milton Shupe. Also no problem. But this Aerosoft Twin Beech is impossible to fly for me. I have installed the update for Freight Dogs. Do you have any idea what causes my problem?? Regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 7, 2006 Aerosoft Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi there, I have the Freight Dogs package and I have big problems with flying the Twin Beech. The Beaver gives no problem at all. Only a light tendency to turn left, but that is the way it is supposed to be. The problem starts directly during take-off. While the aircraft is still on the ground I already get the stall message. I take of with flaps 15 and trim neutral. When the aircraft carries no payload I manage to get into the air. But when I have 500 kg of payload with me I always crash. I am not a newbee. I have at least 2000 hours under my belt. My FS2004 is working just the way it should. I have no problem with any off the other aircrafts I have. I have Dreamfleet, Flight1, PSS, PMDG, FSD International, etc. I also have the Twin Beech from Milton Shupe. Also no problem. But this Aerosoft Twin Beech is impossible to fly for me. I have installed the update for Freight Dogs. Do you have any idea what causes my problem?? Regards, Arjen That's very strange. And unknown, as we just can not related this to any other support issue, so it seems it is something special on your machine or something you do that is different from other people. Let's first rule out FSCargo. You got this behavior even if you don't have an FSCargo assignment running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerries 24 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi Arjen, could you post the [LOAD] Section of the Beech aircraft.cfg. Maybe there´s something erratic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 7, 2006 Aerosoft Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi Arjen, could you post the [LOAD] Section of the Beech aircraft.cfg. Maybe there´s something erratic? Yes, this is what FSCargo modifies, so I would be leaning towards a problem there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi there, If I don't use FSCargo and change the payload on the normal FS way, I have the same problem. Here is the [Weight and balance] section from the aircraft.cfg. Assuming that this is the same as the [LOAD] section. [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] max_gross_weight = 9300 empty_weight = 5800 reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0 empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0 CG_forward_limit = 0.20 CG_aft_limit = 0.30 max_number_of_stations = 13 station_load.0 = 165, 2.0, -3, 1, Pilot station_load.1 = 180, 2.0, 3, 1, Co-pilot station_load.2 = 000, 1.6, -3.0, 1, Pax Seat Right station_load.3 = 000, 1.6, 3.0, 0, Cargo Front Left station_load.4 = 000, -9.0, -3.0, 0, Cargo Mid Right station_load.5 = 000, -9.0, 3.0, 0, Cargo Mid Left station_load.6 = 000, -10.0, -3.0, 0, Cargo Aft Right station_load.7 = 000, -10.0, 3.0, 0, Cargo Aft Left station_load.8 = 000, -13.0, 0.0, 0, Cargo Tail empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 5000 empty_weight_roll_MOI = 5000 empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 12500 empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0.000 CG_forward_limit= 0 CG_aft_limit= 1 I also tried a fresh installation, but that didn't help either. Regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Btw Mathijs, do you know that in your user name the "i" and "j" and switched? It reads "mathjiskok". Or is that on purpose? Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 7, 2006 Aerosoft Share Posted April 7, 2006 Btw Mathijs, do you know that in your user name the "i" and "j" and switched? It reads "mathjiskok". Or is that on purpose? Arjen Yes, it is. It's an inside joke I apologize for, but as you might know it is rather hard for many people not speaking Arabic or Dutch it is hard ti get these characters in the right order. But it can always can be worse, my father was called Ruud Kok and he travelled the US a lot, introducing himself as "Rude Cock" phonetically. If you want it worse, his brother emigrated to Canada and he is called Dick Kok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 7, 2006 Aerosoft Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi there, If I don't use FSCargo and change the payload on the normal FS way, I have the same problem. Here is the [Weight and balance] section from the aircraft.cfg. Assuming that this is the same as the [LOAD] section. [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] max_gross_weight = 9300 empty_weight = 5800 reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0 empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0 CG_forward_limit = 0.20 CG_aft_limit = 0.30 max_number_of_stations = 13 station_load.0 = 165, 2.0, -3, 1, Pilot station_load.1 = 180, 2.0, 3, 1, Co-pilot station_load.2 = 000, 1.6, -3.0, 1, Pax Seat Right station_load.3 = 000, 1.6, 3.0, 0, Cargo Front Left station_load.4 = 000, -9.0, -3.0, 0, Cargo Mid Right station_load.5 = 000, -9.0, 3.0, 0, Cargo Mid Left station_load.6 = 000, -10.0, -3.0, 0, Cargo Aft Right station_load.7 = 000, -10.0, 3.0, 0, Cargo Aft Left station_load.8 = 000, -13.0, 0.0, 0, Cargo Tail empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 5000 empty_weight_roll_MOI = 5000 empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 12500 empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0.000 CG_forward_limit= 0 CG_aft_limit= 1 I also tried a fresh installation, but that didn't help either. Regards, Arjen That is normal, nothing special there. Should cause no problem, this one is really bugging me btw. I really want to know what cause the problem for you. Could you send us a FLT file (plus wx) where you have the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hi Mathijs, I had a closer look and I saw that I got a stall alarm at a little more then 40 knots. The main gear is free from the ground even when I push the nose down on the yoke. I also noticed a difference in the value the tooltips give for the flaps. When I have the flaps setting in the throttle quadrant at 15, the indicator on the main panel says the flaps are at 6.7 (if I recall correctly). You ask for a FLT and WX file. At what point during the flight do you want me to save the flight? If you want I can also make a flight video with the option in FS. I saw another topic from someone who reports that the Beech is hoovering. I have the feel that my problem is related to his. Regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSU 0 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Looks like it is 15% = 4.7 degrees of flaps. The only way I have even come close to mimicking this is if I trim nose up all the way before takeoff and pull way back on the stick. But with these settings it is clearly not a normal takeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Looks like it is 15% = 4.7 degrees of flaps. Thanks for clearing this up for me. Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted April 8, 2006 Aerosoft Share Posted April 8, 2006 Hi Mathijs, I had a closer look and I saw that I got a stall alarm at a little more then 40 knots. The main gear is free from the ground even when I push the nose down on the yoke. I also noticed a difference in the value the tooltips give for the flaps. When I have the flaps setting in the throttle quadrant at 15, the indicator on the main panel says the flaps are at 6.7 (if I recall correctly). You ask for a FLT and WX file. At what point during the flight do you want me to save the flight? If you want I can also make a flight video with the option in FS. I saw another topic from someone who reports that the Beech is hoovering. I have the feel that my problem is related to his. Regards, Arjen Keep im mind that the real aircraft does not have flaps 'settings', it is an electric system that allows you to position the flaps in any position. As Fs does not allow that we included 10 flaps settings, so you need to click the lever 10 times to go to from no flaps to full flaps. The flight would be best just before you start your take-off. I do not believe the floating effect has any relevance, it is just a side effect of trying to make the aircraft behave in the correct soft and flating way that comes form having just 2 main wheels that are large and not high pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois Dumas 1 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Another 'stall horn' issue here: http://forum.aerosoft-shop.com/viewtopic.php?t=7059 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hi there, I sent the requested files on monday in the first half of the afternoon. Did you already have the time to investigate them?? Regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 Still no answer. Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunix 0 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Hi is there any news to this subject? I bought the boxed version of the Beech 18 & Marthas Vineyard and I must say I am experiencing the same problem as Arjen. My Flaps setting should be correct (first bar), trim is neutral. As soon as I advance the throttle, at about 40 kts, the stall warning sound comes on and the airplane bounces out of control. I would also say the aircraft is not flyable the way it is! I am also a heavy FS9 user and own all kind of addons (incl the Beaver by Aerosoft) and do not experience this symptoms on other aircrafts. By the way I find it very disapointing that Arjen posted his comment on April 12th and did not yet receive an answer. At least no public answer in the forum. I would really appreciate some support at this point because I think the Beech 18 by Aerosoft is a great plane except for the behavior at take off and landing! Thanks and best regards Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk09 0 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Hi considero, You might try adjusting your cargo weight it might be that you have it to heavy to lift off. go into your cargo setting's and play around with it. Hey at least your flying in real life LOL. hope that helped Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hi there, Shaun sent me a new aircraft.cfg and now I am able to take off with the cargo loaded. But I haven't been able to land it with the cargo on board. I just bounches from the runway even when I land as soft as possible. Also remained the stall warning at plus 40 kts. So I did get reaction from Aerosoft. But I can't say I am completely satisfied with the final result. I did inform Shaun about the stall warning, not with the impossibility to land the aircraft. Seahawk09 suggests to adjust the cargo weight. That is possible, but than I am not able to use the aircraft with FSCargo. FSCargo is the beating heart of the Freight Dogs package. So that would be pretty stupid. The Twin Beech and FSCargo are part of the same package but you can't use them together. Btw, I want to compliment Aerosoft with the scenery in this package. That is awesome. Kind regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunix 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hi Arjen, would you mind sending me this file vie e-mail? I would really appreciate it. Thanks. DouglasDC873F@aol.com Regards Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hi Frank, For myself I wouldn't mind sending you the aircraft.cfg I received from Shaun. But on the other hand I don't know if I am allowed to do so. So if one of the Aerosoft support team can give his approval I will send it to you. But I think it would be even better if they send it themself or post in on the forum. The Twin Beech is not mine and support for the Twin Beech is a task of Aerosoft. I hope that we will end up with a Twin Beech that gives no problem at all to anyone. Kind regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB 11 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Ummm - I don't know if I had the same problem, but I do occasionally hear the stall warning in the Beech (I have "Beech on the Beach" pack) I don't get this any more, because I changed my take off to "tail dragger". A bit of flaps and trim slightly nose up for climb. Keep the stick forward during the take off roll - slightly - until the tail lifts - then level off with the main gear is still rolling and in contact. OK, because of the trim, you'll be taking off while pushing the stick, but once you are clear and your speed has built up, you can ease back and she'll climb "hands off". Tail up first is normal practice for taildraggers (I believe). Then let speed build and she will lift and climb fairly level without a stall. Taking off "Three point" is tantamount to taking off in a stalled configuration, so of course you will get the horn. Some taildraggers have higher lift airfoil sections - the Beaver can be airborne "three point" in a strongish wind and not complain, the Christen Eagle has power and is fast enough even before the tail lifts... The Beech is not a high performance machine... she needs air under the wings. Humbly and respectfully, my suggestion is to fly the lady gently. Try that and let us know what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hi Chris, Thanks for the advise, but I am afraid that this won't solve the problem. I also have the freeware Milton Shupe Twin Beech in my virtual hangar and that flies just as you described. First tail of the ground, a little more speed and then airborne. This freeware Twin Beech does not climb quickly, just as I expected. When I change from that Twin Beech into the Aerosoft one, it feels as if I stepped into a turboprop. But both the aircraft.cfg have a max_rated_hp=450. But that is probably not the only important parameter when it comes to performece. Kind regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB 11 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Further response from me... I have just been doing a series of TaG (touch and gos) around Hamburg... Yep - if you try to take off three point", the stall warning comes on every time. It even beeps briefly if you keep the tail down too long. If you get the tail up soon enough - no blare. I even "overdid" things by holding the stick a long way forward (too far) - but the tail lifted before the warning and I was quick enough to prevent a nose-over and still got off well enough so as not to frighten the pax On landing - you can flare until the nose is way up and the stall horn blares, but still get down... (if you stall low enough :wink: ) The best landing is as per the book - Flaps, easing off the speed fairly level on the flare (not too much!) and she rolls on sweet as a daisy. The horn will beep as the tail drops, but as soon as you are on the brakes (after the tail is down), you are on a winner. Basically - read the in-flight checklists (F10 in sim) and see what it says about take-off and landing... The one thing I don't like is the way the Beech tends to skid a lot on two wheels. Very wind sensitive... but that's me, not aerosoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Considero 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hi Chris, I am not attempting to take off three point. At 40kts my only goal is to gain more speed. But I still get the "stall" warning. The aircraft is trimmed and the flaps are set according to the checklist. I know how to take off with a taildragger and I can read the arcs on the airspeed indicator. There is just something strange going on with the Aerosoft Twin Beech on my MSFS system and not only on my system. Kind regards, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk09 0 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Hey Considero, Dont worry we will get you flying yet try adjust your setting for the beech if it has any try trimming the aircraft before you take off make the nose off early and try putting the flaps at the first or second notch when taking off that might help with landing too:) and try not cutting the throttle's until your about to go on to runway then cut the throttles try that. I will do some T&G's my self and leyt you know what work's for me. dont worry we will soon get that bird feeling better. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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