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Major (strange...) Bug since 1.2.2 (not present in 1.2.1)


Skypat
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Hello

 

I usually activate "Airport Ground aircraft" to 100

I know very well, it use random texture, it's not a problem for me.

 

but here is the bug

1.2.0 version is working fine, lots of planes (jet airliners) with liveries

1.2.1 version is working fine, lots of planes (jet airliners) with liveries

with 1.2.2 version, on same airports, lots of plane (jet airliners) without liveries 

 

so i use 1.2.1 at this time

 

best regards

 

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i found explanation

 

default asobo airport LFLL and LFBO

1.2.1 works fine for all planes

1.2.2 works fine for all planes

 

juste 2 examples:

Digital design LFLL

1.2.1 works fine with only few planes without liveries

1.2.2 works very bad with "all" planes without liveries

 

Flightbeam LFBO

1.2.1 works fine with few planes without liveries

1.2.2 works very bad with "all" planes (at the gate) without liveries

 

 

what did you change between 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 ? (apart adding skins)

fyi AIG-OCI free liveries (without using traffic utility) works fine with 3rd party airport.

 

i never had such issues with prior versions (1.2.1, 1.2.0) . i bought Simple traffic day one and fly only with 3rd airport i bought or download @flightsim.to

 

 

so with 1.2.1 there are very more planes with simple traffic deliveries than with 1.2.2 at 3rd party airport (no issue with default asobo aiport)

 

very strange issue.

best regards

 

 

 

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see attached

1.2.2 all without Liveries.... (apart my plane)

LFLL from digital design

 

1.2.1 works fine with very few planes without liveries at the same airport

 

Microsoft Flight Simulator - 1.26.5.0 06_08_2022 13_02_09.png

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

I cant check it at LFLL and LFBO cause I do not have those add-ons.

I checked it at various other add-ons and did not see this issue. Does this happen at all your add-on airports? If so, please list them, so I maybe can check another airport.

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hope you have it ;)

Aerosoft ! EBBR

see screenshot please

 

Aerosoft EBBR

lots of planes have not any liveries

.691037518_MicrosoftFlightSimulator-1_26.5.006_08_202216_56_54.thumb.png.f2ad477488367bbfe7271d0493726390.png

 

 

default ASOBO airport

All plane have liveries ! good

Microsoft Flight Simulator - 1.26.5.0 06_08_2022 17_08_57.png

 

hope you will find fixes

best regards

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

TBH, but I can not replicate your problem. All aircraft in EBBR have repaints. not a single aircraft with default paints:
2022-08-06 17.32.37 000.png

 

2022-08-06 17.32.29 000.png

 

Do you have any other tool that might place aircraft?

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no i have only simple traffic for planes

i tested also with only simple traffic and aerosoft EBBR and FENIX A320, nothing else in community folder :(

 

your screenshot are with aerosoft EBBR ?

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Am 6.8.2022 um 18:58 schrieb mopperle:

Yes

Anybody else seeing this problem?

Jepp, me too. Saw it in EDDK (Aerosoft) for example. It seems there are mainly stock A380 liveries (but also some other planes). I think this happens if you (like the OP mentioned) turn on static traffic in the sim settings. Which I do too. Cause at least in Europe, the online AI traffic doesn't populate the airports very much. So, to have some (more) planes docked at gates gives a more realistic sight of airports. Never saw a moving stock livery though. I wonder why the sim chooses the default liveries at all and I wonder if there's a quick and easy way to completely deactivate those.

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9 hours ago, RogePete said:

Jepp, me too. Saw it in EDDK (Aerosoft) for example. It seems there are mainly stock A380 liveries (but also some other planes). I think this happens if you (like the OP mentioned) turn on static traffic in the sim settings. Which I do too. Cause at least in Europe, the online AI traffic doesn't populate the airports very much. So, to have some (more) planes docked at gates gives a more realistic sight of airports. Never saw a moving stock livery though. I wonder why the sim chooses the default liveries at all and I wonder if there's a quick and easy way to completely deactivate those.

i'am not alone :)

Simple traffic works fine with AI traffic and online traffic but not with static aircraft.

Thanks for your post RogePete

 

@Mopperle, is it static aircraft on your screen or AI traffic ?

because like you see below, i have not any problem with AI traffic (LSGG example)

 

image.thumb.png.1a50003b8c8ab0b9c7d213755ee7917d.png

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
2 hours ago, Skypat said:

Simple traffic works fine with AI traffic and online traffic but not with static aircraft.

Which is correct. Static aircraft come with the scenery and ST can not change those aircraft. Only those that are placed by MSFS

 

12 hours ago, RogePete said:

I think this happens if you (like the OP mentioned) turn on static traffic in the sim settings.

But I think you both are not talking about static aircaft, but the slider "GROUND AIRCRAFT DENSITY". And if this slider is not set to zero as mentioned in the manual, you will indeed see default models with default liveries.

 

So nothing is wrong with ST or needs to be fixed.

 

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb mopperle:

But I think you both are not talking about static aircaft, but the slider "GROUND AIRCRAFT DENSITY".

 

 

Yes, you're correct. It's about the ground aircraft density (I called it 'static' for lazy reasons 🙂 ). And I think we both know (OP and me) that this should be turned off, according to your manuals. But as I said, in Europe online traffic does not really populate even big airports. Hence, if you don't want to feel alone (with 1 or 2 other planes docked) you have to pull up GAD a bit. I have mine set to 35, I believe.
 

And @mopperle, we know that this is not recommended, but what should we do? This was no critisism of Simple Traffic at all. I know why that happens and that it is sim driven. But maybe there's a way to turn off the stock livieres at all, so the sim at least chooses any real / Simple Traffic livery instead of the stock ones. That was the question.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
13 hours ago, RogePete said:

But as I said, in Europe online traffic does not really populate even big airports.

I know. One of the many problems in MSFS. And as this "online traffic" is IMHO quite useless anyway, I only use "AI Offline" and get the airports nicely populated. But then you have to turn off the ground aircraft density.

 

13 hours ago, RogePete said:

But maybe there's a way to turn off the stock livieres at all

Not I'm aware of. Try to ask this in the official MSFS forum. And of course "deleting" the default models in MSFS is not an option.

 

13 hours ago, RogePete said:

so the sim at least chooses any real / Simple Traffic livery instead of the stock ones.

This sim doesnt choose anything. Only St (or another traffic tool) chooses the liveries.

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On 8/8/2022 at 7:55 PM, mopperle said:

Which is correct. Static aircraft come with the scenery and ST can not change those aircraft. Only those that are placed by MSFS

 

But I think you both are not talking about static aircraft, but the slider "GROUND AIRCRAFT DENSITY". And if this slider is not set to zero as mentioned in the manual, you will indeed see default models with default liveries.

 

So nothing is wrong with ST or needs to be fixed.

 

 

I disagree there is something to tweaks and you should take a look please. Random liveries don't means default asobo liveries, it means that you can have a Simple Traffic JAPAN plane at a regional france airport.

i dont' know at all why you posted screenshots with AI Traffic and told me no issues or your side, my first post was clear about what i used: "I usually activate "Airport Ground aircraft" to 100"

 

with MS AI traffic disabled and MS online traffic disabled:

a free(!) product like "aig-aitraffic-oci-beta" liveries works fine at EBBR or others airports with "ground aircraft density" slider above 0 and ALL planes have random liveries (no problem) but there are from AIG mod folder's liveries not default asobo's.

so if it's was an MSFS issue, like with Simple traffic, there would be some aircraft with good liveries and others with asobo liveries, it's not the case at all with "aig-aitraffic-oci-beta". ZERO plane with default asobo liveries.

I have not used at all AIG AItraffic controller utility which inject AI aircraft (i didn't use it), i tried only "aig-aitraffic-oci-beta" folder which contains liveries like simple traffic contains also liveries. 

so no external/internal AI ingame, just "Airport Ground aircraft" used.

 

so you should take a look at ST please, maybe there is something missing or to tweak in BGL files.

and like i said and seem forgotten... 1.2.1 was working better, less planes with default asobo liveries.

 

and VERY important thing ! this "ground aircraft density" issue seem to appear with third party airport, not default airport

 

Aerosoft EBBR

lots of planes have not any liveries

.691037518_MicrosoftFlightSimulator-1_26.5.006_08_202216_56_54.thumb.png.f2ad477488367bbfe7271d0493726390.png

 

 

default ASOBO airport

All plane have liveries ! good

Microsoft Flight Simulator - 1.26.5.0 06_08_2022 17_08_57.png

 

 

your beloved customer

Order: 1120376xxx (PM if needed) - 21/15/12

 

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Hmm, maybe it's an issue with the airports and how their gates and parking positions are coded. In EDDK (Aerosoft) the respective positions (where I see default A380 most of the time) are coded with Airline Code ",,,,,". Whereas positions with ST liveries on them have no Airline Codes at all or specific ones (like DLH or something).

 

(btw: I checked this with LittleNavMap, where you can see how the positions are coded)

 

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On 8/6/2022 at 12:25 PM, Skypat said:

what did you change between 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 ? (apart adding skins)

 

1.2.2 only adds new livery texture files and new offline AI flight plan files - there are no other changes. Parking codes were added previously in 1.2.1.

 

On 8/10/2022 at 2:20 PM, Skypat said:

a free(!) product like "aig-aitraffic-oci-beta" liveries works fine at EBBR or others airports with "ground aircraft density" slider above 0 and ALL planes have random liveries (no problem) but there are from AIG mod folder's liveries not default asobo's.

 

Some other AI traffic add-ons modify or delete protected internal MSFS files in order to block default MSFS AI models and liveries. Our policy with ST is never to modify internal MSFS files - we will only ever add new files. The upside is system stability because this way ST operates within the rules of the SDK and MSFS Marketplace. The downside is that default liveries may sometimes still appear alongside ST liveries in certain (rare) circumstances.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 10:05 PM, RogePete said:

But maybe there's a way to turn off the stock livieres at all, so the sim at least chooses any real / Simple Traffic livery instead of the stock ones. That was the question.

 

You can minimise the selection of non-optimised and non-ST aircraft as AI (airborne and ground) by using the following recommended sim settings:

 

OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (AI TRAFFIC): ON
OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (MULTIPLAYER): ON

 

To completely block the selection of a particular aircraft as AI (airborne or ground), in addition to the above setting, it is also necessary to modify the config files belonging to that aircraft. We do not recommend this and it is not supported, so you do so at your own risk. Locate the other aircraft's package folder and edit the aircraft.cfg file to apply the following config setting:

 

icao_generic=0

 

For example, to block the sim from using the default A320 NEO as AI (which is the default aircraft appearing in your screenshots), edit its aircraft.cfg file located here :

 

\Official\[...]\asobo-aircraft-a320-neo\SimObjects\AirPlanes\Asobo_A320_NEO\aircraft.cfg

 

Be sure to take a backup, and note that manual edits to official internal files will be automatically overwritten during sim updates.

 

More info available in the SDK here: SDK: Additional Config Information

 

On 8/10/2022 at 5:45 PM, RogePete said:

maybe it's an issue with the airports and how their gates and parking positions are coded.

 

The sim will place AI aircraft in airport parking spots where the parking code matches the aircraft atc_parking_code, or where either the airport parking code or the aircraft atc_parking_code are blank. ST aircraft all have standard airline ICAO codes ('AAL', 'BAW', etc) defined as their atc_parking_code. In this case, according to your observation in Little Nav Map, the airport parking codes are neither blank nor standardised airline ICAO codes, so the sim will only place aircraft with an atc_parking_code which is either blank or ',,,,,' in those parking spots.

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First, thanks for your explanation. Finally some content!  🙂

 

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Simple Traffic:

 

You can minimise the selection of non-optimised and non-ST aircraft as AI (airborne and ground) by using the following recommended sim settings:

 

OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (AI TRAFFIC): ON
OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (MULTIPLAYER): ON

 

I've done this already.

 

 

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Simple Traffic:

Locate the other aircraft's package folder and edit the aircraft.cfg file to apply the following config setting:

 

icao_generic=0

 

I've already done this (...partly). Have to check again.

 

 

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Simple Traffic:

so the sim will only place aircraft with an atc_parking_code which is either blank or ',,,,,' in those parking spots.

 

Yes, and the stock liveries codes should be empty, as far as I remember. Hence they would be preferred over the ST liveries on these weird coded airport spots.

 

 

I guess I have to walk through my folders and check what I can do by hand.

Thanks again. Hope future airport devs will give their positions normal codes or at least leave them blank.

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Hi there again,

 

sorry to bother you but I made a discovery and maybe you have an answer for me @Simple Traffic.

 

I crawled through my 'official' folders to get rid of the generic liveries (by modifiying the aircraft.cfgs). I also looked through the Simple Traffic content, just out of interest. And what I found is the following:

  • in nearly every Simple Traffic aircraft folder, in every aircraft.cfg, the first "FLIGHTSIM.0" entry is a default one. which links to a default texture folder inside ST.
  • inside this texture folder there is a texture.cfg which now links to the default asobo-generic-airliner texture folder (in the QJH default texture folder there is in fact only this cfg and no texture at all)
  • these first flightsim.0 default entries in the aircraft.cfgs of your planes have no parking codes (just like the asobo ones)
  • could it be, that these are (also) taken when some weird parking codes are used by an airport?
  • would it help (maybe?) if you take these default textured planes out of Simple Traffic (if you... maybe... plan to update ST some time in the future)?

Best wishes

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12 hours ago, Simple Traffic said:

Some other AI traffic add-ons modify or delete protected internal MSFS files in order to block default MSFS AI models and liveries. Our policy with ST is never to modify internal MSFS files - we will only ever add new files. The upside is system stability because this way ST operates within the rules of the SDK and MSFS Marketplace. The downside is that default liveries may sometimes still appear alongside ST liveries in certain (rare) circumstances.

 

hello, its not the case at all in my example, i drop only an "AIG-OCI-xxxx" folder in community (nothing else) and it works fine for all planes for all 3rd airports, ST don't :(

but i prefer simple traffic because it's "optimized" for FS and not old FSX stuff.

 

12 hours ago, Simple Traffic said:

You can minimise the selection of non-optimised and non-ST aircraft as AI (airborne and ground) by using the following recommended sim settings:

 

OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (AI TRAFFIC): ON
OPTIONS - GENERAL OPTIONS - TRAFFIC - AI AND MULTIPLAYER TRAFFIC DETAIL - USE GENERIC AIRCRAFT MODELS (MULTIPLAYER): ON

 

already done but thanks to help.

 

like i said, these issues appears only on 3rd parties airports (also with aerosoft airports)

with default asobo airport there is not any problem at all about ST liveries, ALL planes have ST liveries.

I talk only about "Ground aircraft density" option which put not moving aircraft at airports.

 

best regards, thanks to help

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15 hours ago, RogePete said:

in nearly every Simple Traffic aircraft folder, in every aircraft.cfg, the first "FLIGHTSIM.0" entry is a default one. which links to a default texture folder inside ST.

 

The FLIGHTSIM.0 default entries are there by design. They are not the MSFS default multicolour liveries, but custom ST blank liveries.

 

In the early days of ST, the sim's internal model-matching logic would automatically 'fall-back' to the default non-coded FLIGHTSIM.0 variation for any real-time AI flight whose ICAO airline code did not match any of the coded livery variations included in ST. This was a good system, because many would agree that a blank livery is preferable to a random incorrect livery. Unfortunately, Asobo subsequently changed the internal model-matching logic, so that it now selects a random livery for any non-matches.

 

We've left the blank FLIGHTSIM.0 entries in place in the hope that Asobo may one day change that model-matching logic back to the way it was before, as per another ST user's poll here:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/on-line-ai-model-matching-for-not-recognised-lcao-codes/466509

 

15 hours ago, RogePete said:
  • could it be, that these are (also) taken when some weird parking codes are used by an airport?
  • would it help (maybe?) if you take these default textured planes out of Simple Traffic (if you... maybe... plan to update ST some time in the future)?

 

No, in this case the sim is not selecting the FLIGHTSIM.0 entry for those problem parking spots. In fact, according to the screenshots provided, the sim is not selecting an ST aircraft at all for those problem parking spots, because the models in those spots are all non-ST A320 Neos (smaller size and rounded nose).

 

Currently, the only time FLIGHTSIM.0 entries come into play is when the sim's model-matching logic selects an ST model and then makes a random livery selection across all of its livery variations (including FLIGHTSIM.0), so there is no reason to take them out.

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Thanks again @Simple Trafficfor the explanation. Very kind of you.

I made some changes and had success. I took EDDK (Aerosoft) as a test object since there are always default Asobo 380 liveries at specific parking spots. I did add the

icao_generic=0

in the stock 380 aircraft.cfg before (as you mentioned). But now I also added

isAirTraffic = 0

in all of the respective FLIGHTSIM.X enries of the default asobo generic A380 liveries.

Additionally (just for testing reasons) I took some default asobo B747 liveries (some 'fantasy liveries' from MSFS) and added

isAirTraffic = 1

in their respective FLIGHTSIM.X entries. These also have no entry in the parking codes section. And now - instead of the stock A380 - the B747s appear on the respective parking spots. As you can see here:

 

1a.thumb.jpg.819c27b2d68a96d72799431bda762c0e.jpg

 

I still have to do the same with the asobo generic midsized twinjets:

2a.thumb.jpg.6ff31bbdaa52ad07059932e4dd0b15c0.jpg

 

It really seems the system prefers empty coded planes/liveries over any other livery when finding stupid parking codes on an airport parking spot. Didn't test it yet, but I would assume it rather would take no plane at all (if it looks for a quad jetted plane for instance and doesn't find an empty coded livery) than any livery with specific parking codes.

 

But I still wonder why it doesn't take your default white livery which also would apply to that rule (as you mentioned above) and now prefers the B747. Maybe because in your default textured livery there is a

isAirTraffic = 0

in the FLIGHTSIM.0 entry?
 

So maybe - if you do activate GROUND AIRCRAFT DENSITY - the system uses this entry for orientation. Cause 'isAirTraffic' is deactivated in every of your liveries ( the respective FLIGHTSIM.X entries).

 

Or?! The reason in this specific case is, that your ST default textured planes have no CARGO entry in the 'atc_parking_types' section. And at least in EDDK the mentioned spots seem to be cargo positions.

 

But: the last two cargo positions with the generic twin jets have no parking codes and could/should also be populated with ST cargo liveries, which they don't - so I think it's more likely that the 'isAirTraffic=0' entry is the reason here. Although I'm not sure - editing the 'icao_generic' to zero - if the system now still would use any of the stock A380 models (even with your ST liveries). Maybe I have to keep 'icao_generic' activated and just switch any default livery off with 'isAirTraffic'.

 

And btw: I don't use SU10 (beta).

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