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A330 Flare logic


Viperlead
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Hello guys

 

I did a quick search of "a330 flare" and i couldnt find anything relevant, so.

Im sure you are aware of the wrong A330 flare logic which actually pulls de nose up instead of down below 50ft, making basically land the plane all by itself like an autoland, literally not necessary to touch the stick, just thrust levers to idle and that's it. Is there any time frame for this to be corrected??

 

Thanks in advance!

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13 hours ago, Viperlead said:

Hello guys

 

I did a quick search of "a330 flare" and i couldnt find anything relevant, so.

Im sure you are aware of the wrong A330 flare logic which actually pulls de nose up instead of down below 50ft, making basically land the plane all by itself like an autoland, literally not necessary to touch the stick, just thrust levers to idle and that's it. Is there any time frame for this to be corrected??

 

Thanks in advance!

Sorry, editing my post as i may have misread the initial one Viperlead - are you saying the aerosoft model noses down, or up at 50ft?

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
28 minutes ago, AT69 said:

Sorry, editing my post as i may have misread the initial one Viperlead - are you saying the aerosoft model noses down, or up at 50ft?

 

I most certainly never saw a nose up moment in our A330.

If at all then currently it has no flare logic active at all (wondering why since we have it in the smaller busses... we're discussing this at the moment).

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Hello devs.

 

lets assume we are on AP on final everything ready for landing. Lets say around 500ft agl, AP off, but i dont touch the stick. Plane continues to glide gracefully following the ILS. Still without touching the stick, at 50ft the plane, all by itself pitches up (like An automatic flaring) And I just move levers to idle at 20ft. The plane landed in manual mode without Ever touching the stick.

this has happened since version 1.0.0.2 if I recall correctly. 
we know airbus flare logic is to actually do the opposite. Pitch down so the pilot pulls and hold the new pitch attitude. (As I do in a real 320)

 

just my two cents. Thanks for your responses.

Alfredo

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Just did a quick test. I noticed that the THS did not freeze at 100ft, as it did a small nose down input at about 80 or 90 feet.

As for the nose up, I did not noticed anything. But it also did not make a small nose down, as supposed.

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  • Root Admin

This is a complex issue.... 

 

There is a 0.25 degree downtrim for 8 seconds (resulting in -2 degrees) triggered  at 50 ft AGL in the A320 range. But in the most recent A330 manuals we have this is NOT indicated and our A330 pilots have assured us that the back pressure needed on the A330 is not the same as in the smaller busses. So talking about 'Airbus Logic' is not correct in this aspect. There are differences between different models.

 

For now we do not believe we need to change this behavior. When the real pilots we use for input advise me differently we reopen this topic.  For now things are as they are.

 

 

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On 4/18/2020 at 6:43 PM, Mathijs Kok said:

This is a complex issue.... 

 

There is a 0.25 degree downtrim for 8 seconds (resulting in -2 degrees) triggered  at 50 ft AGL in the A320 range. But in the most recent A330 manuals we have this is NOT indicated and our A330 pilots have assured us that the back pressure needed on the A330 is not the same as in the smaller busses. So talking about 'Airbus Logic' is not correct in this aspect. There are differences between different models.

 

For now we do not believe we need to change this behavior. When the real pilots we use for input advise me differently we reopen this topic.  For now things are as they are.

 

 

Looking from A330 manuals in SmartCockpit (I assume those are really old ones, judjing by the looks) and to the most recent manuals in my company, A330 FCOM never mentioned how much down trim is applied. But the wording they use is still the same: "At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied.".

 

I also agree that the flare needs less input than the A320, my only observation was the apparent lack of THS freezing at 100ft.

 

FCOM DSC-27-20-10-20 FLARE MODE

 

When the aircraft passes 100 ft RA, the THS is frozen and the normal flight mode changes to flare
mode as the aircraft descends to land. Flare mode is essentially a direct stick-to-elevator relationship
(with some damping provided by the load factor and the pitch rate feedbacks). At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied. Consequently, to flare the aircraft, a gentle nose-up action by the pilot
is required.

 

 

 

This is the latest FCOM available for a fleet of CEOs and NEOs.

 

 

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8 hours ago, becas said:

Looking from A330 manuals in SmartCockpit (I assume those are really old ones, judjing by the looks) and to the most recent manuals in my company, A330 FCOM never mentioned how much down trim is applied. But the wording they use is still the same: "At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied.".

 

I also agree that the flare needs less input than the A320, my only observation was the apparent lack of THS freezing at 100ft.

 

FCOM DSC-27-20-10-20 FLARE MODE

 

When the aircraft passes 100 ft RA, the THS is frozen and the normal flight mode changes to flare
mode as the aircraft descends to land. Flare mode is essentially a direct stick-to-elevator relationship
(with some damping provided by the load factor and the pitch rate feedbacks). At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied. Consequently, to flare the aircraft, a gentle nose-up action by the pilot
is required.

 

 

 

This is the latest FCOM available for a fleet of CEOs and NEOs.

 

 

Thank you Sr. I do have access to latest 330 Fcom also (I have plenty of colleagues that fly 330s) but I didn't say anything cause I don't fly it myself. Seems like being an A320 pilot is not enough to give input (...and talk about "airbus logic"). But I'm glad you did quoted the info. I hope the Aerosoft's A330 pilots team reconsider to check this VERY important feature, since is one of the veeery few moments we actually get to manually fly the craft.

 

Thanks again.

Alfredo

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