Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Viperlead

A330 Flare logic

Recommended Posts

Hello guys

 

I did a quick search of "a330 flare" and i couldnt find anything relevant, so.

Im sure you are aware of the wrong A330 flare logic which actually pulls de nose up instead of down below 50ft, making basically land the plane all by itself like an autoland, literally not necessary to touch the stick, just thrust levers to idle and that's it. Is there any time frame for this to be corrected??

 

Thanks in advance!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will discuss this with the advisory pilots in our team. There are no plans to change this right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Viperlead said:

Hello guys

 

I did a quick search of "a330 flare" and i couldnt find anything relevant, so.

Im sure you are aware of the wrong A330 flare logic which actually pulls de nose up instead of down below 50ft, making basically land the plane all by itself like an autoland, literally not necessary to touch the stick, just thrust levers to idle and that's it. Is there any time frame for this to be corrected??

 

Thanks in advance!

Sorry, editing my post as i may have misread the initial one Viperlead - are you saying the aerosoft model noses down, or up at 50ft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, AT69 said:

Sorry, editing my post as i may have misread the initial one Viperlead - are you saying the aerosoft model noses down, or up at 50ft?

 

I most certainly never saw a nose up moment in our A330.

If at all then currently it has no flare logic active at all (wondering why since we have it in the smaller busses... we're discussing this at the moment).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this moment there are no plans to add this effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello devs.

 

lets assume we are on AP on final everything ready for landing. Lets say around 500ft agl, AP off, but i dont touch the stick. Plane continues to glide gracefully following the ILS. Still without touching the stick, at 50ft the plane, all by itself pitches up (like An automatic flaring) And I just move levers to idle at 20ft. The plane landed in manual mode without Ever touching the stick.

this has happened since version 1.0.0.2 if I recall correctly. 
we know airbus flare logic is to actually do the opposite. Pitch down so the pilot pulls and hold the new pitch attitude. (As I do in a real 320)

 

just my two cents. Thanks for your responses.

Alfredo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just did a quick test. I noticed that the THS did not freeze at 100ft, as it did a small nose down input at about 80 or 90 feet.

As for the nose up, I did not noticed anything. But it also did not make a small nose down, as supposed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a complex issue.... 

 

There is a 0.25 degree downtrim for 8 seconds (resulting in -2 degrees) triggered  at 50 ft AGL in the A320 range. But in the most recent A330 manuals we have this is NOT indicated and our A330 pilots have assured us that the back pressure needed on the A330 is not the same as in the smaller busses. So talking about 'Airbus Logic' is not correct in this aspect. There are differences between different models.

 

For now we do not believe we need to change this behavior. When the real pilots we use for input advise me differently we reopen this topic.  For now things are as they are.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2020 at 6:43 PM, Mathijs Kok said:

This is a complex issue.... 

 

There is a 0.25 degree downtrim for 8 seconds (resulting in -2 degrees) triggered  at 50 ft AGL in the A320 range. But in the most recent A330 manuals we have this is NOT indicated and our A330 pilots have assured us that the back pressure needed on the A330 is not the same as in the smaller busses. So talking about 'Airbus Logic' is not correct in this aspect. There are differences between different models.

 

For now we do not believe we need to change this behavior. When the real pilots we use for input advise me differently we reopen this topic.  For now things are as they are.

 

 

Looking from A330 manuals in SmartCockpit (I assume those are really old ones, judjing by the looks) and to the most recent manuals in my company, A330 FCOM never mentioned how much down trim is applied. But the wording they use is still the same: "At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied.".

 

I also agree that the flare needs less input than the A320, my only observation was the apparent lack of THS freezing at 100ft.

 

FCOM DSC-27-20-10-20 FLARE MODE

 

When the aircraft passes 100 ft RA, the THS is frozen and the normal flight mode changes to flare
mode as the aircraft descends to land. Flare mode is essentially a direct stick-to-elevator relationship
(with some damping provided by the load factor and the pitch rate feedbacks). At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied. Consequently, to flare the aircraft, a gentle nose-up action by the pilot
is required.

 

 

 

This is the latest FCOM available for a fleet of CEOs and NEOs.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, becas said:

Looking from A330 manuals in SmartCockpit (I assume those are really old ones, judjing by the looks) and to the most recent manuals in my company, A330 FCOM never mentioned how much down trim is applied. But the wording they use is still the same: "At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied.".

 

I also agree that the flare needs less input than the A320, my only observation was the apparent lack of THS freezing at 100ft.

 

FCOM DSC-27-20-10-20 FLARE MODE

 

When the aircraft passes 100 ft RA, the THS is frozen and the normal flight mode changes to flare
mode as the aircraft descends to land. Flare mode is essentially a direct stick-to-elevator relationship
(with some damping provided by the load factor and the pitch rate feedbacks). At 50 ft, a slight pitch
down elevator order is applied. Consequently, to flare the aircraft, a gentle nose-up action by the pilot
is required.

 

 

 

This is the latest FCOM available for a fleet of CEOs and NEOs.

 

 

Thank you Sr. I do have access to latest 330 Fcom also (I have plenty of colleagues that fly 330s) but I didn't say anything cause I don't fly it myself. Seems like being an A320 pilot is not enough to give input (...and talk about "airbus logic"). But I'm glad you did quoted the info. I hope the Aerosoft's A330 pilots team reconsider to check this VERY important feature, since is one of the veeery few moments we actually get to manually fly the craft.

 

Thanks again.

Alfredo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I'd just like to check in on the status of whether this feature will be implemented in the next update. I am currently on 1.0.1.0 and don't notice any difference between the airplane's behavior in the previous versions and this one - as of now I do not feel any difference whatsoever between normal law and flare mode - which makes touching down in the A330 a bit of a task since we're inclined to put in back pressure on the stick at about 30-40 feet but the airplane tends to float down the runway if back pressure is put in. In my past couple of landings the airplane has just about touched down right at the end of the TDZ despite very little back pressure. There is a skybrary article which describes proper flare mode logic from the A330's perspective, which mentions that flare mode in the A330 is similar, but not identical to that of the 320 - whereas in the 320 the airplane takes a snapshot of its current attitude at 50 feet RA and starts pushing the nose down to -2.5 degrees at 30 feet RA, this article states that the 330 goes into flare mode at 100 feet RA and starts the downward movement at 50 feet RA, although no particular attitude target (i.e. 2.5 degrees in the case of the 320) is specified. I am linking it here:

 

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Flight_Control_Laws#Airbus_Flight_Control_Systems

 

Of course, I am not a real world pilot on the A330 and I'm only going off of publicly available information. Can AS confirm whether this is being worked on and/or will be implemented in the next update cycle?

 

Thank you, keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly not in the next update. Maybe at some point in the future, but no promises.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...