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Detail50

Flight losing control still

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Hello,   I took a week off and today loaded the new update following all the documented procedures concerning admin, virus, reboot etc.   I thought perhaps the plane would conduct a good flight after that, but it lost control twice and now the entire flight is again ruined.

 

Dave has been very helpful,, but it's not working and I'm at a impasse.  This basically is un-flyable,  it simply losses its control and then breaks everything downstream of when it happens.

 

The plane is again in a A Floor condition

AFloor2.JPG

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vor 6 Stunden , Detail50 sagte:

Hello,   I took a week off and today loaded the new update following all the documented procedures concerning admin, virus, reboot etc.   I thought perhaps the plane would conduct a good flight after that, but it lost control twice and now the entire flight is again ruined.

 

Dave has been very helpful,, but it's not working and I'm at a impasse.  This basically is un-flyable,  it simply losses its control and then breaks everything downstream of when it happens.

 

The plane is again in a A Floor condition

AFloor2.JPG

 

 

Maybe it's nearly the same problem:

Anything loading at this time? for me was it some AI. I could handle it, it took over control really fast, after getting control back, I enabled the Autopilot again.

 

Regards

Urmel

 

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The cause is really pretty basic, the fps drops below our threshold (around 16, 17...) and at that moment the FBW system that works on a frame by frame base is working against itself.  The FPS you see onscreen are not a good guide as they do not show short drops. To make sure this is the cause simply do the same flight on very low settings. If you do not see the issue it is confirmed.

 

As Urmel stated you can see this issue when a huge amount of data is loaded suddenly, like a complex airport that has the same distance visibility settings for all objects, or a large amount of AI traffic. Ideally all these things should be handled by the CPU cores that are not busy with the sim, but we have seen more than a few 'tweaks'  on the P3d.CFG that might cause problems with this. You can also try to set a FPS limit that is at least 10% lower then the FPS you normally see in these conditions.

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5 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

The cause is really pretty basic, the fps drops below our threshold (around 16, 17...) and at that moment the FBW system that works on a frame by frame base is working against itself.  The FPS you see onscreen are not a good guide as they do not show short drops. To make sure this is the cause simply do the same flight on very low settings. If you do not see the issue it is confirmed.

 

As Urmel stated you can see this issue when a huge amount of data is loaded suddenly, like a complex airport that has the same distance visibility settings for all objects, or a large amount of AI traffic. Ideally all these things should be handled by the CPU cores that are not busy with the sim, but we have seen more than a few 'tweaks'  on the P3d.CFG that might cause problems with this. You can also try to set a FPS limit that is at least 10% lower then the FPS you normally see in these conditions.

Thank you,  I'll try to adjust the limit.   Could you help me with a couple process steps as to how I can dial this in to your suggestion.   I know where the target rate adjustment is and I just checked my frame rate which is 32 in the air.

 

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I would set it at 20 fps. That way you can be sure the issue is prevented (if it is indeed fps related).  What you also can do is simply  use very low settings.

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1 hour ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I would set it at 20 fps. That way you can be sure the issue is prevented (if it is indeed fps related).  What you also can do is simply  use very low settings.

Thanks,   I've set at 20FPS and measured FPS with Navigraph and Active sky on is 20 fps.    Not the best visual effects,  but will see how the flight goes.

 

Before I start another topic has there been checklist sequence problems reported after the last update?

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1 hour ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I would set it at 20 fps. That way you can be sure the issue is prevented (if it is indeed fps related).  What you also can do is simply  use very low settings.

I'm at cruise on the way to Calgary.   Here is cockpit view at the present time

2019-12-30_13-0-7-160.jpg

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As you still see the "pushback" message, something seems to be completely wrong with your setup. I suggest a complete fresh install ov everything (P3D, addons etc.)

Everything else on your screnshot is OK (of course also the STBY Altimeter should also be set to STD).

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55 minutes ago, mopperle said:

As you still see the "pushback" message, something seems to be completely wrong with your setup. I suggest a complete fresh install ov everything (P3D, addons etc.)

Everything else on your screnshot is OK (of course also the STBY Altimeter should also be set to STD).

I had the same situation on both flights after the update,  yes you are correct the messaging shown is not correct.   The checklist sequence breaks after doors are closed.   No flight attendant notification that doors are closed,  no option 1 or 2 notification for pushback,  then checklists and ground control messages don't operate properly although eventually they seem to be able to be run as you start taxi.  Just want to mention this was not an issue with update 4 and now is an issue with update 5.   The only thing that changed was the update,  doing your suggestion is a lot of work.   It seems to relate to the update?

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The flight continued to a landing,  there were no loss of control events through most of the flight.

 

When the flight was approximately 5 miles from touchdown the speed started to act erratically with deviations of + or minus 5 > 10 knots, but it maintained it's approximate VAP of 140.  Despite that it continued to follow the glide slope down to the runway and landing.  From previous experience something is still not right

 

The first officer called out localizer captured,  but even though it was below the glide path it never called out that the glide slope was captured even though it flew down the path once the slope was intercepted.

 

As far as checklists,   they all executed properly and correct messaging was shown for top of decent and approach.   The whole flight though was dogged by the Configure and start pushback message, and a periodic first officer callout of APU bleed.

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Something is very wrong on your installation. I seriously suggest to do what Otto suggested.

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3 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Something is very wrong on your installation. I seriously suggest to do what Otto suggested.

Good day Mathijs,   I performed all the uninstall and install per established procedures (admin, virus off, reboot etc).   This did not clear the checklist sequence problem.

 

I tried it twice and the checklist sequence fails in the A330 as it did before:

 

It runs through cockpit prep ok,  then fuel is loaded etc as part of the pre flight,   the message is shown to close the doors which I do and then nothing happens.

 

I went back to the A320 and followed the same sequence from Cold and Dark.   Close doors is shown,  I close the doors and I immediately hear the sound of the doors close,  notification is given all passengers on board and before start checklist starts.

 

As I mentioned previously I did not have this issue before the 1.0.0.5 update.

 

I could go back and reinstall the A330 again and not do the update to see what happens if you think that gives any information?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I suggest to wait till tomorrow as there is an update that might change some things. 

Thanks I'll look for that.

 

I'm flying a A320 from San Diego to JFK and everything is running correctly per the Sim.   I did some reading about what the target rate slider is doing as I didn't totally get it.   Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to gain understanding on that.  I did move up to 30fps and that was enough to start to see some speed fluctuations,  back to 20 and it smoothed back out.

 

Wonderful sky today head east from California.

2019-12-31_17-32-57-461.jpg

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Well were still searching for an answer,   I just don't understand why it just goes mad after running along so well for so long.   I was out to dinner and came back to this and this is with the A320 which was rock solid.  Dave,  what else can I do?  Everything was again reinstalled this morning and I am flying with a target limit of 20 FPS.

SanDiego1.JPG

SanDiego2.JPG

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Happy New Years,    understand it's a Holiday,  just wanted to know if it will be a few days before I might get some additional suggestions to try?

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Hey Ray, are all your motherboard drivers up to date?   As the IC chip or motherboard manufacturers finds issues, or as Windows is updated, the manufacturers update the drivers to ensure everything works well together.

 

I use a program called Advanced System Care to ensure my drivers are always up to date,  but you can always do this manually via your motherboard manufacturers website.

 

More than that, have you ever heard of the "processor lottery"?  The same applies to IC chips on the motherboard, and not all motherboard manufactuers use the same type or level of quality control, so though a remote possibility, it's always possible that you've got a lesser performing or even errant IC chip somewhere. This also applies to graphics cards.  In fact, did you know that both CPU and GPU processors have known faults?  Manufactuers use some tricks of the trade  which allow them to sell them.  For instance, an i7-4770K processor is identical to an i7-4790K except the areas of the processor on the i7-4770K are essentially disabled because the faults they have.

 

Anyway, that's a broad look at things and much of it may not be germane to your situation.  I'd start by ensuring  your motherboard and graphics drivers are fully up to date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Hey Ray, are all your motherboard drivers up to date?   As the IC chip or motherboard manufacturers finds issues, or as Windows is updated, the manufacturers update the drivers to ensure everything works well together.

 

I use a program called Advanced System Care to ensure my drivers are always up to date,  but you can always do this manually via your motherboard manufacturers website.

 

More than that, have you ever heard of the "processor lottery"?  The same applies to IC chips on the motherboard, and not all motherboard manufactuers use the same type or level of quality control, so though a remote possibility, it's always possible that you've got a lesser performing or even errant IC chip somewhere. This also applies to graphics cards.  In fact, did you know that both CPU and GPU processors have known faults?  Manufactuers use some tricks of the trade  which allow them to sell them.  For instance, an i7-4770K processor is identical to an i7-4790K except the areas of the processor on the i7-4770K are essentially disabled because the faults they have.

 

Anyway, that's a broad look at things and much of it may not be germane to your situation.  I'd start by ensuring  your motherboard and graphics drivers are fully up to date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dave,   everything is up to date.   I have Nivida tools that let me know when a new version is available, and I just had a update a while ago.   I checked both ASUS and Nivida and both are up to date for GPU and MB.

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1 hour ago, Detail50 said:

Thanks Dave,   everything is up to date.   I have Nivida tools that let me know when a new version is available, and I just had a update a while ago.   I checked both ASUS and Nivida and both are up to date for GPU and MB.

 

Okay, thanks for checking Ray, and I also want to thank you for sticking with this.  I'm really pressed to come up with more things to check here.

 

You have really been terrific to work with, and if you don't mind doing something else, I'd like very much to get video of what you're experiencing. You know what they say about a picture, and video is even better.

 

Please download and install a freeware program called Open Broadcaster Studio. This software should be installed and run as Administrator.  After that, let's meet up on our Discord server and I will set Open Broadcaster up for you to record and stream, and you can then run this on all your flights and when you experience this you'll be able to provide us with a link to watch the video... which will show us what happened just before the anomoly and while it's happening.  That i think is out best way to go here.

 

Regarding the drivers, there is one more check we can do if that's okay. It will take you less than 5 minutes.

 

Download the Snappy Driver Installer HERE, then unzip and run the 64-bit version of the software which will be the "SDI_x64_R1909" file which you'll want to run as Administrator.

 

When you run the program, please be sure to select "Download Indexes Only" (see screen shot below).  In just a few minutes the program will check all your drivers against the most up to date list.  Then take screen shots and upload the report here in this thread, but DO NOT install any new drivers.

 

Screenshot - 1_1_2020 , 6_22_17 PM.png

 

 

 

Also, are you still using the settings that I provided you with for P3D and ActiveSky?

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Okay, thanks for checking Ray, and I also want to thank you for sticking with this.  I'm really pressed to come up with more things to check here.

 

You have really been terrific to work with, and if you don't mind doing something else, I'd like very much to get video of what you're experiencing. You know what they say about a picture, and video is even better.

 

Please download and install a freeware program called Open Broadcaster Studio. This software should be installed and run as Administrator.  After that, let's meet up on our Discord server and I will set Open Broadcaster up for you to record and stream, and you can then run this on all your flights and when you experience this you'll be able to provide us with a link to watch the video... which will show us what happened just before the anomoly and while it's happening.  That i think is out best way to go here.

 

Regarding the drivers, there is one more check we can do if that's okay. It will take you less than 5 minutes.

 

Download the Snappy Driver Installer HERE, then unzip and run the 64-bit version of the software which will be the "SDI_x64_R1909" file which you'll want to run as Administrator.

 

When you run the program, please be sure to select "Download Indexes Only" (see screen shot below).  In just a few minutes the program will check all your drivers against the most up to date list.  Then take screen shots and upload the report here in this thread, but DO NOT install any new drivers.

 

Screenshot - 1_1_2020 , 6_22_17 PM.png

 

 

 

Also, are you still using the settings that I provided you with for P3D and ActiveSky?

 

 

 

 

Its not going to your UI example,  it immediately goes to this screen and starts the process to configuring and installing drivers which I interrupted.

Drivers.JPG

3 minutes ago, Detail50 said:

Its not going to your UI example,  it immediately goes to this screen and starts the process to configuring and installing drivers which I interrupted.

Drivers.JPG

If you want me to use the SDI version I get this error message

SDI.JPG

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3 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Ah, no, not the torrent version.  This one:

 

 

Screenshot - 1_1_2020 , 7_28_36 PM.png

Thanks Dave

SDI1.JPG

SDI2.JPG

SDI3.JPG

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Oh baby!  Yeah, looks like you have some out of date drivers my friend, I suspected as much.  But don't do anything about it.  The next time we get together I'm going to take a deeper look to be sure, and then help you update them.  I've never used that software (I use payware), and I just don't want to risk your system getting screwed up, so that's why I want to wait and do this with you.

 

We'll also get you set up with Open Broadcaster in case you still have issues after we update your system.

 

I have a heavy day today until 9pm/10pm GMT (Zulu Time), but I should be available the day after.  What's  your time zone again?

 

 

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29 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Oh baby!  Yeah, looks like you have some out of date drivers my friend, I suspected as much.  But don't do anything about it.  The next time we get together I'm going to take a deeper look to be sure, and then help you update them.  I've never used that software (I use payware), and I just don't want to risk your system getting screwed up, so that's why I want to wait and do this with you.

 

We'll also get you set up with Open Broadcaster in case you still have issues after we update your system.

 

I have a heavy day today until 9pm/10pm GMT (Zulu Time), but I should be available the day after.  What's  your time zone again?

 

 

Thanks Dave,  I am in EST Florida,USA

 

My son is arriving for a visit later today for the next three days or so, so I will be busy.   I did the 1.0.0.6 update today and am checking to see if checklist works properly now.

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