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stewamar

NZQN RNAV 05 Y approach not loading correctly in the Aerosoft Airbus

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G'day, I am seeking help to resolve an issue where the NZQN RNAV05-Y approach does not load correctly in the Aerosoft Airbus yet loads and flies perfectly in a competitor's detailed A320 (you can guess which one).

 

The data has been in Navigraph's AIRAC's since 1701 and to be honest, I have only flown the Aerosoft 'bus in recent times (1707) and now have experienced this issue.

 

The issue is not in the programming of the route into the MCDU, but it is how the Aerosoft Airbus interprets the data. 


This procedure does not have an Approach Transition (to match real world charts) and this is not uncommon in the nav data set from Navigraph.

 

The MCDU places the runway in an incorrect position in the flight plan, even though the nav data has everything in the correct order.

 

The Nav data from 1707 is as follows:

 

STAR,ELRU1A,05,5
IF,ELRUV,-44.617189,169.832606, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,EKVOX,-44.816000,169.331194,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,UKLAK,-44.910075,168.911464,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4,17000,16000,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,MABGA,-44.904144,168.737428,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2,13000,0,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,GOSPA,-44.901233,168.654719,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2,12000,0,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,AVGER,-44.961694,168.483822,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 
TF,IBABU,-44.992811,168.395425,0, ,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4,12000,10000,0,0,0,0,0, 

 

FINAL,R05-Y,05,R,12,0, ,0,0,0,0
IF,IBABU,-44.992811,168.395425, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,1,0,0.1
TF,QN577,-45.021083,168.314800,0, ,0.0,0.0,220.0,3.8,2,10000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN573,-45.126603,168.258731,1,RQN01,109.1,4.9,2,9200,0,1,170,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN571,-45.161086,168.309714,1,RQN02,61.3,3.7,2,8200,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN569,-45.157628,168.380089,1,RQN02,37.4,3.7,2,7100,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN565,-45.139047,168.429822,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.4,2,6300,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN562,-45.121078,168.477828,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.3,2,5500,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,OMUBO,-45.065722,168.625181,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,7.1,2,3100,0,0,0,0,2,0,0.1
TF,QN555,-45.050000,168.666889,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.0,1,2440,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN550,-45.037542,168.686750,1,RQN19,31.5,2.4,1,2040,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN545,-45.022775,168.717964,2,RQN20,52.8,2.2,1,1480,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,RW05,-45.020000,168.735689,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,8.0,1,1208,0,0,0,0,3,1,0.1
TF,QN547,-45.016544,168.757728,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,1.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN551,-44.987583,168.802617,1,RQN21,290.9,2.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN553,-44.952706,168.752972,1,RQN22,174.7,1.7,2,6000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN557,-45.001775,168.729611,1,RQN82,140.2,2.0,0,0,0,1,170,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN560,-45.064592,168.753631,2,RQN83,159.1,6.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN878,-45.302217,168.731147,0, ,0.0,0.0,160.0,14.3,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN882,-45.351672,168.712475,2,RQN24,181.2,8.0,3,11000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,SUNGU,-45.458381,168.638539,0, ,0.0,0.0,182.0,7.1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0.1
HM,SUNGU,-45.458381,168.638539,1, ,0.0,0.0,339.0,04.3,1,10000,0,1,240,0,0,0,0.1,


The runway is placed at the start of the final procedure group of waypoints and not in it's correct position, 12 legs into the final approach phase.

 

The attached images shows the incorrect flight plan in the Aerosoft A320 MCDU.

 

27.JPG.af89cc7430b045017a0d2dc6dc4af0fd.JPG28.JPG.e176a87961b833f3c4963a6fcb475d8f.JPG29.JPG.73197bc213c6e0c8ebb7d87ae672eb46.JPG30.JPG.77a288b7f4c9c395b04cd9b1de99fe52.JPG

 

Referring to the nav data set above and the MCDU images above, the runway NZQN05 is inserted after IBABU when it should be after QN545. All the waypoints are present but the runway gets slotted in the wrong sequence.

 

The result is an usable flight plan:

 

36.thumb.JPG.d829d52fa40e239b2cfa4d8a36ce9675.JPG33.thumb.JPG.e0da00caa7399550eb835205991e4f4b.JPG35.thumb.JPG.be576d073afe53e95f6a702e4b52760f.JPG

 

This is an image of the competitor A320 that plots the route correctly that is parsed from exactly the same data source from Navigraph.

 

fsl5.thumb.JPG.0098029f26331b31423277382cd0ee8a.JPG

 

Considering there are a lot of waypoints in the final approach before the runway (12 in all), is this the limitation of the Aerosoft MCDU and the resulting incorrect flight plan? 

 

Do all Aerosoft flight plans require a STAR, APPTR and FINAL of can the approach transition be omitted?

 

I would love to hear your valued opinions to help resolve this issue!

 

Regards,   Martin YBLT

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Hi,

 

i think, it´s an failure in the navdata base. You can see, the approach is after the STAR only programmed between IBABU and the Rwy05, then follow only the points of the RNAV RNP Approach from QN577 via OMUBO to QN545. Between QN545 and QN547 it goes directly into from Approach to Missed Approach, the Rwy is at this point missing .

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Hi,

 

first at all I can confirm that the coding of RNAV( RNP) Y RWY 05 Approach into Queenstown, NZ is not correct inside the Aerosoft Airbus Family. I checked with the old Airbus X Extended v1.16 and with the Airbus A319 v1.31. Both with actual Navigraph AIRAC 1707.

 

After further investigations I think I have an idea or better a reason what is going wrong here. Since the coding for Rwy 23 seems to be ok I compared the codings and found that the FMC can not handle more than 8 entries prior to the runway definition!

I checked this with making an "Via" from "IBABU" (the end of the ELRU1A STAR) to the FAF "OMUBO" and reduced the number of waypoints in the FINAL-record to 5 with starting at "OMUBO".

 

This is the new coding I tested

APPTR,R05-Y,05,IBABU
IF,IBABU,-44.992811,168.395425, ,0.0,0.0,0,0,0,1,220,0,1,0,0.1
TF,QN577,-45.021083,168.314800,0, ,0.0,0.0,220.0,3.8,2,10000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN573,-45.126603,168.258731,1,RQN01,109.1,4.9,2,9200,0,1,170,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN571,-45.161086,168.309714,1,RQN02,61.3,3.7,2,8200,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN569,-45.157628,168.380089,1,RQN02,37.4,3.7,2,7100,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN565,-45.139047,168.429822,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.4,2,6300,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN562,-45.121078,168.477828,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.3,2,5500,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,OMUBO,-45.065722,168.625181,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,7.1,2,3100,0,0,0,0,2,0,0.1

FINAL,R05-Y,05,R,5,0, ,0,0,0,0
TF,OMUBO,-45.065722,168.625181,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,7.1,2,3100,0,0,0,0,2,0,0.1
TF,QN555,-45.050000,168.666889,0, ,0.0,0.0,38.0,2.0,1,2440,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN550,-45.037542,168.686750,1,RQN19,31.5,2.4,1,2040,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN545,-45.022775,168.717964,2,RQN20,52.8,2.2,1,1480,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,RW05,-45.020000,168.735689,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,8.0,1,1208,0,0,0,0,3,1,0.1
TF,QN547,-45.016544,168.757728,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,1.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN551,-44.987583,168.802617,1,RQN21,290.9,2.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN553,-44.952706,168.752972,1,RQN22,174.7,1.7,2,6000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN557,-45.001775,168.729611,1,RQN82,140.2,2.0,0,0,0,1,170,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN560,-45.064592,168.753631,2,RQN83,159.1,6.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,QN878,-45.302217,168.731147,0, ,0.0,0.0,160.0,14.3,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN882,-45.351672,168.712475,2,RQN24,181.2,8.0,3,11000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,SUNGU,-45.458381,168.638539,0, ,0.0,0.0,182.0,7.1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0.1
HM,SUNGU,-45.458381,168.638539,1, ,0.0,0.0,339.0,04.3,1,10000,0,1,240,0,0,0,0.1,

And it works with both the Airbus X Extended and the Airbus A319.

 

I don't know how the coding of NavDataPro works, 'cause I don't have the data, but it seems for me that the internal processing of Navdata inside the Aerosoft Airbus Family has a problem with Approaches with more than 8 waypoints prior to runway.

 

Best regards

Jan

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On 7.7.2017 at 5:39 AM, stewamar said:

RF,QN550,-45.037542,168.686750,1,RQN19,31.5,2.4,1,2040,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN545,-45.022775,168.717964,2,RQN20,52.8,2.2,1,1480,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
TF,RW05,-45.020000,168.735689,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,8.0,1,1208,0,0,0,0,3,1,0.1
TF,QN547,-45.016544,168.757728,0, ,0.0,0.0,54.0,1.0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1
RF,QN551,-44.987583,168.802617,1,RQN21,290.9,2.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.1

 

The 3 I marked red means that after this waypoint, the missed approach procedure starts. Therefore everything after the runway waypoint (NZQN05) is shown in blue. The order of waypoints is correct. The order in the TMPY flightplan is indeed incorrect, but since that's not used anyway, I don't see it as a major issue.

 

Navigraph just split the procedure in two. NavDataPro didn't. It's really something you can do or not. In the end it doesn't mean a difference.

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On 7/8/2017 at 10:04 PM, frumpy said:

Hi,

 

first at all I can confirm that the coding of RNAV( RNP) Y RWY 05 Approach into Queenstown, NZ is not correct inside the Aerosoft Airbus Family. I checked with the old Airbus X Extended v1.16 and with the Airbus A319 v1.31. Both with actual Navigraph AIRAC 1707.

 

After further investigations I think I have an idea or better a reason what is going wrong here. Since the coding for Rwy 23 seems to be ok I compared the codings and found that the FMC can not handle more than 8 entries prior to the runway definition!

I checked this with making an "Via" from "IBABU" (the end of the ELRU1A STAR) to the FAF "OMUBO" and reduced the number of waypoints in the FINAL-record to 5 with starting at "OMUBO".

 

This is the new coding I tested

And it works with both the Airbus X Extended and the Airbus A319.

 

I don't know how the coding of NavDataPro works, 'cause I don't have the data, but it seems for me that the internal processing of Navdata inside the Aerosoft Airbus Family has a problem with Approaches with more than 8 waypoints prior to runway.

 

Best regards

Jan

 

G'day Jan,

 

this is good advice (that the Aerosoft Airbus cannot handle more than 8 legs in the final approach) and what I suspected was the case as this FINAL is the longest procedure I have come across. Also consider

the fact that all the other add-ons I have tested don't have an issue with the long procedure (Aivlasoft EFB, PMDG and FSLabs).

 

On 7/8/2017 at 11:11 PM, Hans Hartmann said:

Navigraph just split the procedure in two

 

Thank you also Hans for your advice. I will test the "split" procedure on other platforms and request the change in the next AIRAC from Navigraph (as raw ARINC data) if it checks out OK.

 

Thank you both for your great advice.

 

Regards,   Martin YBLT

 

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I did further investigations and found these three entries in the complete Navigraph AIRAC 1707 with more then 8 legs prior the runway:

EGWU.TXT,[357]FINAL,I25,25,I,10,0, ,0,0,0,0
LYNI.TXT,[261]FINAL,D11,11,D,11,0, ,0,0,0,0
NZQN.TXT,[636]FINAL,R05-Y,05,R,12,0, ,0,0,0,0

So, you found one of these three with the RNAV 05-Y Approach into Queenstown, NZ.

 

I also did purchase the NavDataPro Cycle 1707 today and looked in it, but this doesn't contain any APPTR or FINAL records for NZQN. You can't even select an ELRUV1A STAR for Rwy 05.

 

And at least I have just flown from Wellington to Queenstown with the Aerosoft Airbus A319. Could nearly autoland on the rwy 05 following the modified RNAV 05-Y Approach with Navigraph AIRAC data.

 

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G'day Jan,

I too found another RNAV approach without an Approach Transition with 8 legs before the runway at Cairns YBCS R33-W. It loaded up just fine:

596409427a5e6_ybcsr33w1.thumb.JPG.4b605961b9f84c9209861350e7c7c56e.JPG

 

YBCS Aerosofot nav data 1707: FINAL,R33-W,33,R,8,0, ,0,0,0,0

 

I will check out the other two airports you mentioned above 

9 hours ago, frumpy said:

EGWU.TXT,[357]FINAL,I25,25,I,10,0, ,0,0,0,0 LYNI.TXT,[261]FINAL,D11,11,D,11,0, ,0,0,0,0

and see if they load OK or if 8 is the cut off point for a FINAL without an APPTR. The procedure for YLNI has a APPTR's before the FINAL so that one may not count. The NZQN R23-Y FINAL has 9 legs before the runway but it has APPTR's and it loads OK. The EGWU test will be interesting.

 

I have rewritten the ARINC code for a modified NZQN R05-Y and tested it on the Aerosoft Airbus and the FSL A320 and it loads perfectly. It has an APPTR and 5 legs before the runway in the FINAL procedure. I hope this slight change will be accepted by Navigraph in the next AIRAC:

 

14.thumb.JPG.1365c154081533f540cb189b785011f3.JPG

This image is a bit messy and fuzzy but it shows all legs display correctly on the ND in the AS A320 and the MCDU in the Flight Plan page. (I can't seem to get a sharp image of the Aerosoft ND.)

 

Anyway, thanks for your advice and help.....It has been a pleasure!

 

Regards,  Martin Stewart

 

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There is a hotfix for this issue available. As it contains some other changes we'll not immediately release this as a update. But if you want to test this new file, drop me a mail at mathijs.kok@aerosoft.com and I'll send it to you.

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Brilliant news! Thank you Mathijs, will do.

 

Regards, Martin Stewart

 

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The Hotfix works inside A319 to fly the RNAV 05-Y Approach into Queenstown, NZ. So, no longer need to alter Navigraph AIRAC data.

 

Jan

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G'day Jan, I can also confirm the hotfix works in the A320 model as well. Thanks everyone for all your help. 

Regards, Martin

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Hi Mathijs any chance I could get this hotfix from you?

 

Regards

 

Brian

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