Jump to content

Serious issue with AS 2012 winds in PFPX


Recommended Posts

Hello.

As title says, I have rather big problem with AS 2012 weather feed. As Im flying with AS2012, Id like to use its feed to get most accurate data for my OFP. Currently the winds are completely off and I cant understand why. I have set correct bath in appdata, and I dont know what PFPX is reading, but its clearly reading or parsing wrong information. I will provide 2 pdf files, one from AS 2012, other one from PFPX. Both are using same weather files (that is if PFPX are using right ones, I dont know) and planned for FL370. Differences are drastic.

Would be really nice if someone could help me with this, as currently PFPX is unusable for me.

AS 2012 winds.pdf

PFPX winds.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply

post-92552-0-68123600-1377917590_thumb.j02h19m04s.image-wintemp_uk_wintemp-smpz_eur-t4-fl390-20130831030000.87995377006083767.pdf

Good morning,

Please find enclosed the wind map from the PFPX weather supplier and another isued by London for the same time and same FL (used in real world).

Do not forget that there are not the real winds but PROGNOSTIC and may be it is not the same computer calculating and also probably not based on the same original observations.

It could make some differences and it is the same if you ask from one forecaster to another, their results could be different.

Enjoy your flight.

JP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello JP,

Im not entirely sure we are on the same page here. Im not trying to compare two data sources, thats the whole point that I want to have single data source. If I use AS 2012 data then wind maps shown above and winds for OFP are from same source and should match, and also are from latest wether snapshot not in future. My issue is that PFPX cant read proper data from AS 2012 snapshots, be it because of wrong FLs read by PFPX, or PFPX unable to parse data correctly winds are not right. As those two pdfs above are from same data source with same time tag, they should be identical, or close to it, match. In FSBuild 2 I had in flight wind matching FP winds within few figures, even after some 12 hours. In PFPX, with same AS2012 datasource, OFP can say 350/50, FS and AS 2012 logs are giving 160/14 (just for example). Theres clearly something wrong with PFPX using AS 2012 data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Raimo,

I understand that you have exactly the same source of datas and exactly valid for the same time.

In that case the problem would be when the server is computing the datas, the result being different if used through PFPX or AS2012.

When looking at the charts do the results in PFPX match the charts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again,

I compiled a FPL and used the winds from FS Global Weather and PFPX. Same FL same time of origin, today 0600 GMT.

The results may vary from some degrees and 10 knots which has no influence on the flight as when we fly, the winds encountered are a bit different than planned.

I enclose you the two documents.

I used AS before but not anymore due to the delay of weather information.

LFBH EICK FSGRW.pdf

EIN1246 LFBH-EICK (31 Aug 1525 UTC).pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And thats how it should be, few degrees variation. I built OFP once more and cross checked its winds with PFPX map with weather bars presented. OFP and PFPX map winds are the same, but when I enable winds on AS 2012 map and look at its flight plan, they are different, and those AS 2012 winds are in fact the ones that I get in my FS. Clearly PFPX is getting some wether data from AS 2012, it must, or else winds cant be presented (am I right?), but its not using them correctly. Something is clearly wrong and it would be good for developers to chime in and explain this or take a look at it.

Input from other AS 2012 users are also most welcome, so I can identify if its an isolated case or global issue.

Thank you,

Raimo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning Raimo,

This morning I checked the en route winds with PFPX, FSrealWX lite, AS, FS Global Real Weather and the charts for RW flying and nearly same results with a difference between 270 and 350 in direction and around 10 kt in speed which is acceptable regarding forecast.

Another point is that the base to establish all these datas are not necessary the same and the same time.

Finally if you have a difference, for the duration of all your flight, of 20 kt headwind more than expected, for a plane doing 450 kt TAS, for a 1000 nm trip you would have to fly 6 minutes more which would be considered in your cont. fuel (5%).

Have a nice day.

JP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

attachicon.gifWv FL400 0300.jpgattachicon.gif02h19m04s.image-wintemp_uk_wintemp-smpz_eur-t4-fl390-20130831030000.87995377006083767.pdf

Good morning,

Please find enclosed the wind map from the PFPX weather supplier and another isued by London for the same time and same FL (used in real world).

Do not forget that there are not the real winds but PROGNOSTIC and may be it is not the same computer calculating and also probably not based on the same original observations.

It could make some differences and it is the same if you ask from one forecaster to another, their results could be different.

Enjoy your flight.

JP

Just compared your wind chart with the one of PFPX. Can't see major wind differences. Please bear in mind the different projection types of the charts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can some dev please shed some light on this? I did another flight to LHR-PHL, and once more winds were unsatisfying. I did a table which has FSX, AS 2012 and PFPX winds after each waypoint. PFPX weather data was sourced from AS 2012 and was built with same snapshot that AS 2012 winds were. Please take a look at it and tell me if this is how its supposed be, because I think this is completely unaccurate. It doesnt make sense that AS 2012 navlog and PFPX winds that were built from same weather snapshot will be so much different and theres nothing wrong with PFPX.

Winds comparison.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going to have to agree with Raimo, PFPX is not reading ActiveSky wind data correctly.

It is not a simple display issue either, it has a direct effect on planning, especially long haul.

Looking at the OFP wind information, and the navigation log in ActiveSky (I am using Evolution), we see that for at least two flight levels, FL300 and FL340, we can make a direct comparison between these two reports for each waypoint.

There is no reason at all, at least that I can think of, why the values for each waypoint at matching flight levels shouldn't be exactly the same. Not close, not a few degrees off, but EXACTLY the same, as all PFPX should be doing is reading the data for those flight levels directly from the snapshot.

Unfortunately, this is not the case, and the data PFPX seems to be using is often off by quite large amounts, both in direction and velocity.

I will use only the first waypoint from a recent flight as an example now, but please understand that the variance I will show you continues throughout the entire flight, and in the end, resulted in an OFP that was nearly 40 minutes short on trip time, and of course, also short the corresponding fuel.

Also, the ActiveSky source is a downloaded archive with updates disabled, for consistency.

From PFPX OFP

IRK
FL380  224/026 -54
FL360  229/036 -49
FL340  232/045 -45
FL320  233/046 -40
FL300  234/047 -36
 

From ActiveSky Evolution

IRK
FL390  292/078 -54
FL340  297/073 -44
FL300  303/058 -36
 

As you can see we have directly comparable data for FL300 and FL340, and would expect some similarity between FL380 and FL390. Unfortunately the values aren't even close.

Some examples now of the effects on planning, using FSBuild generated numbers for the same routing, which I KNOW reads wind data more accurately:

Calculated HW component:

FSBuild HD030 PFPX HD011

Calculated trip time:

FSBuild 13h39m PFPX 12h59m

* an interesting note here, when manually applying a HD030 component in PFPX, trip time is an exact match to the FSBuild number. Actual en-route time was 13h35m

Calculated trip fuel:

FSBuild 204210klbs PFPX 195892klbs

etc, etc...

I really hope that you will take a harder look at this issue, as it is more than just a small variance, and even if it were, for the examples I have used, there shouldn't be any variance at all.

Please feel free to contact me for any further information/testing. I will be glad to help in any way that I can.

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fully agree with the arguments of Raimo, I face the same issue. Personally, I like flying offline and that is why I am a user of AS2012. So Raimo, your case is not isolated and I think there is a real problem regarding the correspondence of data decoding wind alofts. The results are completely different. By cons, for TAFs and METARs there is no problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Out of simple curiosity, I installed the old ActiveSky 6.5, and guess what, it works perfectly.

So it seems that there is some difference between the snapshot or station files that is causing this to happen.

Looking at them side by side, there are few apparent differences:

In ASv6, airports are listed first, with the Activesky generated waypoints ($040, etc) after. ASE is the opposite, with the AS waypoints first, airports after.

More interestingly though, it appears there is a difference in how the data is listed in the wx_station_list files:

From ASv6:

$040,-8.000,-164.000,2,11.5
 

From ASE:

$040,-8.000,-164.000,0.0
 

A sample of that waypoint's snapshot information from each version (this is supposed to be from the same exact time, notice the differences)

From ASv6:

$040::*::*::053,011,23.2/064,016,17.3/071,018,15.4/068,010,07.2/082,011,-05.7/046,022,-15.4/014,011,-31.0/283,014,-41.3/277,015,-54.0
 

From ASE:

$040::*::*::095,009,22.4/083,006,17.5/067,005,15.2/075,008,06.3/071,010,-06.2/050,027,-15.9/036,007,-31.0/254,012,-41.4/261,016,-53.8
 

I only post this to say, that while PFPX may not be working properly with newer versions of ActiveSky, it is working perfectly with ASv6. I would hate to break this for ASv6 users in an effort to correct the issue for users of newer versions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

I'm another Active Sky 2012 user.

I had run several releases and compared to AS21012 NAVLOG. It seems there is a huge difference when PFPX is collection WX from AS2012.

However, I must say that when I use PFPX server the results are good.

Please devs take a little look at this and I'm available if needed to send some information/testing if needed

Best Regards and congratulations for your work

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

Thanks you gents, that proves the problem. Maybe some of the developers could chime in and let us know whats causing it and if theres anything we can do to fix it or help you to release the fix for this issue. At the moment I am unable to produce correct OFP's, both time and fuel wise, which renders PFPX practically useless.

Kind regards,

Raimo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmm...

I'm just on a long Flight from LOWW to FACT... and I also see the same problem..... winds aloft are totally off......

Hope someone from the development team will have a look on this, because wright now its not working as it should....

but I do understand that at the moment they are for shure have a lot of work at hand with all the little bugs showing up after release...

regards

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the moment I am unable to produce correct OFP's, both time and fuel wise, which renders PFPX practically useless.

Until this issue is fixed, could you not set the weather source in PFPX to use an average wind and temperature, then use the averages that AS 2012 produces when you enter a flight plan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the same issue like all other people here. PFPX winds are way off the AS2012 winds, when using the *same* data source.

I also did an inflight check. Right after AS2012 has updated the weather I paused the flight, read out the wind data from the FMC and fired up PFPX.

I enabled the PFPX traffic in PFPX, so that I knew where my current position was. Then I compared the winds of my FMC with the winds which PFPX

has read on startup. And they are way off! The same happens to me with regard of the temperatures.

I do not know what is going wrong here, but something is definitely strange here!

PFPX (updated via ActiveSky): 343°/32kt -21°C

FSX (updated via ActiveSky) : 220°/7kt -12°C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe, but I'm not talking about the PFPX server here.

I use AktiveSky in FSX as well as in PFPX. The reason is, that I want the weather to be consistent. It's easy to get an inconsistency when using different sources, but NOT when using the exactly same source. So in my understanding the weather in FSX (updated via ActiveSky) should match the weather in PFPX (updated via ActiveSky). If not, it makes no sense to have a flight planner which can account for the winds/temps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sent the following in another post :

Hi,

I understand that there would be some diferences between Active Sky and PFPX regarding the winds aloft.

I enclose 2 charts one from PFPX and the other RW.

Please note that the two are very similar.

Personnally I use FS Global Real Weather for the FS flights and it is very similar to RW and PFPX (see fsgrw file).

Anyway, everybody uses the same datas.

Again it appears that there are problems berween AS and PFPX.

I would say PFPX winds are correct if you use them as there are and there is a problem when the winds are collected from AS.

Regards.

JP

EIN3132 EIDW-EGPD (05 Sep 1200 UTC).pdf

PWBE40.pdf

fsgrw.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say PFPX winds are correct if you use them as there are and there is a problem when the winds are collected from AS.

I think we are beginning to mix the things up in this thread. Fact is:

No matter how AS collects his wind data, if it is the same or not the same as the "real weather" - If PFPX is reading the AS data, it should be able to display the same weather conditions as AS, whether they are wrong or not (compared to the real world weather in this moment). I don't care how the real weather is. All what I'm expecting is, that I can reproduce the same weather in PFPX and FSX - because I fly with the weather provided from AS. And if AS is collecting "old" or "wrong" data from their servers, so what, then I want to plan with that "old"/"wrong" data, because that is the data I will also fly with.

Another thing:

Imagine that you want to fly in a "historic weather event" (e.g. hurricane katrina). Then PFPX should very much be able to read and reproduce the historic weather data provided by AS. Currently this seems not to be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi ChrisM, there is no mix here.

The issue is that PFPX software is depicting AS winds way off. They will not be compatible with the winds i will have flying with AS weather engine in FSX. So fuel burn and time is off too because of this.

The only solution till now is to use PFPX servers weather to plan my flight, which indeed is similar with what AS depicts in FSX.

So i hope the dev team fixes this as i don't have the option to fly with PFPX's weather.

I hope it is clear as english isn't my first language.

Sincerely

Sergio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...