SAITEK'S X-65F PRO FLIGHT SYSTEM

[777cpt 18]

Introducing Saitek's Long awaited X-65F PRO FLIGHT SYSTEM

X65F Pro Flight System

Rule the skies with the latest Saitek X series controller – the Pro Flight X65F Control System. Custom engineered from high grade metal castings, this is a system that is built to withstand many combat engagements. The number of controls available will cater for any pilot’s needs, but the true innovation resides within the stick itself – Force Sensing technology.

What is Force Sensing?

In a world first for a manufactured simulation controller, the X65F’s stick does not move; instead, like those found in real modern fighter jets, it responds to pressure that you exert on the handle, resulting in a fast, accurate and realistic response that will make you the ace in your squadron. With no moving parts and a shaft that is made from high grade steel, this provides incredible reliability and longevity.

Product Features

Metal construction for the ultimate in realism and durability

Unique force sensing stick – all input is detected from how hard you push on the stick, just like in real modern day jet fighters. This includes a force-sensing twist rudder control

Features on-the-fly adjustment of the force settings for the stick – including separate adjustments for each axis of the stick for the ultimate in stick response configuration.

Dual throttle for finer control over twin engine jets, or lock the two throttles together for single engine fighters

Stick controls include:

3 x 8-way hats

1 x 8-way thumb hat

1 x trigger

2 x buttons

2 x pinkie switches

Throttle controls include:

2 x rotaries (incorporating push button controls)

1 x mouse hat

4 x 8-way hats

1 x 2 way ‘K’ switch

1 x scroll selector

1 x 4 position mode switch

Back panel with 5 more control switches, force-sensing strength selection, mode indication and mounting points for Saitek Pro Flight Instrument Panels (sold separately)

A potential total of 608 commands possible without ever moving your hands from the controls!

Connectivity: USB 2.0

Windows 7

Windows XP, XP64 and Windows Vista (all versions)

[Guest M31]

Introducing Saitek's Long awaited X-65F PRO FLIGHT SYSTEM

X65F Pro Flight System

Rule the skies with the latest Saitek X series controller – the Pro Flight X65F Control System. Custom engineered from high grade metal castings, this is a system that is built to withstand many combat engagements. The number of controls available will cater for any pilot’s needs, but the true innovation resides within the stick itself – Force Sensing technology.

What is Force Sensing?

In a world first for a manufactured simulation controller, the X65F’s stick does not move; instead, like those found in real modern fighter jets, it responds to pressure that you exert on the handle, resulting in a fast, accurate and realistic response that will make you the ace in your squadron. With no moving parts and a shaft that is made from high grade steel, this provides incredible reliability and longevity.

Product Features

Metal construction for the ultimate in realism and durability

Unique force sensing stick – all input is detected from how hard you push on the stick, just like in real modern day jet fighters. This includes a force-sensing twist rudder control

Features on-the-fly adjustment of the force settings for the stick – including separate adjustments for each axis of the stick for the ultimate in stick response configuration.

Dual throttle for finer control over twin engine jets, or lock the two throttles together for single engine fighters

Stick controls include:

3 x 8-way hats

1 x 8-way thumb hat

1 x trigger

2 x buttons

2 x pinkie switches

Throttle controls include:

2 x rotaries (incorporating push button controls)

1 x mouse hat

4 x 8-way hats

1 x 2 way ‘K’ switch

1 x scroll selector

1 x 4 position mode switch

Back panel with 5 more control switches, force-sensing strength selection, mode indication and mounting points for Saitek Pro Flight Instrument Panels (sold separately)

A potential total of 608 commands possible without ever moving your hands from the controls!

Connectivity: USB 2.0

Windows 7

Windows XP, XP64 and Windows Vista (all versions)

Is it out now? it was supposed to be out mid December, latest estimate is mid January.

Its very expensive and my X-52-pro is more than capable in FSX and RoF.

Looks really nice though.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Is it out now? it was supposed to be out mid December, latest estimate is mid January.

Its very expensive and my X-52-pro is more than capable in FSX and RoF.

Looks really nice though.

We'll have it on our shop very soon. You'll even get a free F-16 download when you order it.

[Guest M31]

We'll have it on our shop very soon. You'll even get a free F-16 download when you order it.

That might be the swinger, wont have funds until end of January ... I'm tempted.

Hardware Junkie that I am

[777cpt 18]

We'll have it on our shop very soon. You'll even get a free F-16 download when you order it.

It's available now from www.flightstore.co.uk/saitek-x65f-control-system.asp/simulation/joysticks

@ £332

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

It's available now from www.flightstore.co.uk/saitek-x65f-control-system.asp/simulation/joysticks

@ £332

It would surprise me if they could deliver it at this moment. But who knows, we seen the thing and it is very impressive even though there is only one aircraft we know about that actually has a non moving stick we think it will work great in many games.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

It would surprise me if they could deliver it at this moment. But who knows, we seen the thing and it is very impressive even though there is only one aircraft we know about that actually has a non moving stick we think it will work great in many games.

As I thought. Might be on that website but it will be at least 4 weeks before it starts shipping.Think websites should always mention things like this.

[Guest M31]

As I thought. Might be on that website but it will be at least 4 weeks before it starts shipping.Think websites should always mention things like this.

Flight Store are famous for this kinda thing.

Here's a short video preview of it though, they are saying February release there.

Click

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Flight Store are famous for this kinda thing.

Here's a short video preview of it though, they are saying February release there.

Click

I will get a early production model next week and will report on it immediate.

[Guest M31]

I will get a early production model next week and will report on it immediate.

Please try flying some of the default FSX Helicopters for a while when you test it, my concern for this HOTAS is in this area, you need to keep the stick pushed forward all the time for fwd flight in FSX Helo modelling (no trim unlike some real Helo's) and also slow speed and precise transition to hover in Helicopters please.

I have A Thrustmaster Cougar (just a stock one) and the constant fwd pressure needed on the stick with its very heavy springs gets tiresome very quick, hovering with the TM Cougar is much more difficult than with Saitek X-52 Pro, the X-52 is going to be hard to beat for me for everyday FSX usage, especially Helicopters.

Please test with RoF too

I think for a dedicated Jet Fighter Sim, or even all the Jets in FSX including Airliners, this could work very well though.

Thanks.

[Robert S 75]

LOL, I still use my gen 1 Microsoft Force Feedback Pro joystick (serial connector, no less!), I won't replace it until it breaks but meanwhile it's great, even for Helis...

[Waleed 29]

It would surprise me if they could deliver it at this moment. But who knows, we seen the thing and it is very impressive even though there is only one aircraft we know about that actually has a non moving stick we think it will work great in many games.

Just watched the video, and I am unable to get to grips with the fact that the stick does not move.

What they have done seems to be very nice, but I do not know if I can handle "a non-moving"stick.

[Guest M31]

I will get a early production model next week and will report on it immediate.

So, what do you think of it, Mathijs?

Well it arrived today OK and I'm seriously impressed, very good quality construction and packaging.

Only had about an hours flight time so far, the force sensing feels really strange, the stick does not move at all (The real F-16 has a little movement that pilots asked for) and I thought I'd have real problems in Helicopter flight, so tried a helicopter flight in FSX first and it works fine, its going to take a little getting used to but it seems my worries in this area were unfounded.

Tried the Aerosoft Twin Otter next with the split throttle set up for its twin engines, again it works perfectly and feels really good, I did flunk the Lukla landing though but its a very hard approach at the best of times, with more practise I'm sure I'll do better next time I try this.

I've tried the four different force sensing settings and think the softest one (F4) is best for me so far, about my only gripe with the unit is the stiffness of the throttle, at the stiffest setting you really need to push and pull very hard and its impossible to do precise subtle throttle movements that you need in a Helicopter, at the softest setting its acceptable, but I've read that after a few hours use this slackens off.

I'm really pleased with it so far and I'm looking forward to testing it with Falcon 4 Allied Force, Black Shark and Rise of Flight.

10 out of 10.

[awesome 22]

Isn't it very annoying that the stick doesn't move? I can't imagine how this would be..

[Snave 466]

Isn't it very annoying that the stick doesn't move? I can't imagine how this would be..

That was my first thought, too, but the movement of out desktop devices doesn't actually replicate real-world movements very closely either, and we get used to them!

[Guest M31]

Isn't it very annoying that the stick doesn't move? I can't imagine how this would be..

Hi.

I don't think its annoying, but its definitely different and is taking a little bit of getting used to.

Actually, its taking a lot of getting used to, but in a good way:) for most of the type of sim flying I do, Force Sensing is inappropriate, there was nothing wrong with my Saitek X-52 pro or TM Cougar, or even my Yoke, but this thing just oozes quality and works way better than I thought it would with everything I've tried so far.

So far I've been enjoying flying the types of sim I thought this stick would not cope with, like RoF and Black Shark, and so far I've been proved wrong ... I tested the Logitech G940 earlier this year and found it way too gimmicky, the forthcoming TM Warthog seems like a long way off and the specs are still top secret.

It seems I was lucky enough to have scored with this price wise, I got it for £272.40 inc VAT from a popular UK store, they have now put the price up to £299.99 and most places are selling it for the rrp of £350.

Force Sensing is so different to what I've been used to, but I cant help just having *just* one more flight and getting to grips with this thing, having fun is an understatement for me just now

Cheers.

[Sharrow 107]

Hmmmm, I might just have to get myself one of these. The force sensing does sound strange but nothing one cannot get used to.

Does the stick twist at all or is this also force sensing?

What are the options for the second breakout box (the one on the right in your pic)? Can you assign whatever you like to the F keys or is it a preset set of functions?

[Snave 466]

Now that is interesting - What M31 says about working better - and I'd like to ask - is force sensing the same as force feedback? Do you get the feedback from in-sim pavement, runway and increasing g-load, or is it a `one way` force - FROM controller TO sim? I can see how I might give up force feedback for true range of movement, or range of movement for improved sense of feedback, but both must be a weird sensation?

[Guest M31]

Hmmmm, I might just have to get myself one of these. The force sensing does sound strange but nothing one cannot get used to.

Does the stick twist at all or is this also force sensing?

What are the options for the second breakout box (the one on the right in your pic)? Can you assign whatever you like to the F keys or is it a preset set of functions?

The stick does have a rudder twist ability (incredibly considering it does not move) But I have rudder pedals already and prefer this method and I wont even go there, I still prefer rudder pedals for this motion ... I'm sure the function would work fine, though.

The two panels above the throttle unit are, from left to right, the first one deals with the Force Sensing options, its got a flip up cover with a button I don't know what does yet? and several other buttons I'm still unsure what they do?, the next panel is mostly bogus, just info about the force settings, but it is also a mounting for the Saitek LCD instrument gauges ... I've got six of them already for my Yoke set up, but you could bolt one in there or mount others too, they are very modular in this respect.

I first tested the X-65F on my E8400 @ 4GHz rig with XP pro 32 bit SP3 and the provided Saitek software came up with an error, tried it again after my usual OS maintenance and a reboot, it still never installed, but XP recognises the hardware OK and so does Falcon 4 Allied Force that does not play nice in Win 7.

Next up I tried it with my Windows 7 I7 @ 4GHz rig, never even attempted the software install this time, Win 7 recognises the unit just fine, it did a small update and then I tried FSX, as reported, it works perfectly with my quick profile for FSX I use in FSX from its button, slider axis setting.

Its early days and I will try the provided software in Win 7 and XP again ... I must be losing a lot of functionality by not doing so?

But so far so great

[Guest M31]

Now that is interesting - What M31 says about working better - and I'd like to ask - is force sensing the same as force feedback? Do you get the feedback from in-sim pavement, runway and increasing g-load, or is it a `one way` force - FROM controller TO sim? I can see how I might give up force feedback for true range of movement, or range of movement for improved sense of feedback, but both must be a weird sensation?

I've had limited experience with Force Feedback, Force Sensing is totally different, you don't feel anything, all those skills we have learned in traditional stick usage can be thrown out of the window (almost) but I find you adapt very quickly indeed ... its very hard to explain, its so smooth, but I've found my self adjusting to Force Sensing very quickly, the precision and accuracy is way above what I expected.

In years to come I imagine not only F-16's and F-22's will use this technology, its so intuitive.

Cheers.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

My experiences.

FSX

I started using the stick in the test of our Airbus X project. The first 3 minutes were rather problematic as I was not able to get any serious control. My brains kept shouting the stick was defective as it did not move. Yet after a few minutes it seemed my mind seemed to accept it and from one moment to the next the stick worked for me. Strange effect. I switched the stick to it weakest setting to get a more relaxed flying experience and was blown away by the stability in flight I could achieve. Manually lining up for the runway was easier than ever before because the stick is so dependable. The high stability of the aircraft made it a perfect match with the X-65F. Tweaking the forces and the setting up a softer profile made it even better.

Logically I also tested it with the F-16 we done last year and just as logically the combination seemed to work very well. Setting the stick to near maximum force setting and a more aggressive profile made the F-16 better controllable and yet more in control then with my previous Saitek X52 stick. Using the stick with the Discus Glider and the Huey X was less successful. Both these aircraft need prolonged input when circling or hovering and it is simply easier to keep a stick in a certain position then it is to keep a steady force. Flying a small GA aircraft was okay, the more stable input and the lack of any dead zone helped but I would have preferred to have movement in the stick.

Rise of Flight and Lock On, Faming Cliffs

Using a stick based on the F-16 in a simulation of First World War aviation might seem strange but again the superb construction and the stability came through. Lining up on targets was easier because the stick prevents the (for me usual) overcompensation and the many buttons make it very easy to control the options of the game. In fact there are so many keys and controls on theX-65F that I never used all of them.

All in all I love the new stick, it is so incredible precise and stable that using any other stick afterward feels very 'loose' and sloppy.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

I've tried the four different force sensing settings and think the softest one (F4) is best for me so far, about my only gripe with the unit is the stiffness of the throttle, at the stiffest setting you really need to push and pull very hard and its impossible to do precise subtle throttle movements that you need in a Helicopter, at the softest setting its acceptable, but I've read that after a few hours use this slackens off.

Talked to Saitek about the stiffness of the throttle. It seems this is caused by the grease, in transit during the cold period we had the grease solidified.

There tech people advised me to move the throttle as fast as possible back and forward for 30 seconds, really put an effort into it. That seems to solve most of the problem for me. It also helped to put the stick in the sun so it heats up for a while.

[awesome 22]

I still fail to understand what is the true benefit of a force sensing stick over a regular stick (in flight simulator). Probably the only way to discover is to feel it

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

I still fail to understand what is the true benefit of a force sensing stick over a regular stick (in flight simulator). Probably the only way to discover is to feel it

The biggest thing is the accuracy. Just use the calibration tool with your stick and see what happens when you move it from left to right and then let go. It will center but it will not center at 000. My X52 (pretty old and well used by now) can be anything between -25 and +25 so I have to have a rather large dead zone. The X-65 is always 00 and the dead zone of the stick is zero. So even the slightest input is accurate. How can I explain this best.... mmmmm wait perhaps with a car analogy.

See I got a Chrysler 300. Very large and heavy car, great to drive long distances in. But I can move the steering wheel about 1 inch without anything happening. That's the standard play in the steering rack. It also uses power steering that adds some more vagueness in the steering. It's in fact fine as it makes driving far less stressful. I also got a Lotus Elise that has no power steering and almost no play in the steering. It's ultra direct, you feel the slightest bump. Like Jeremy Clarkson said, you can count the number of legs of the insect you are driving over. The X65 is like that, super accurate, very direct. Because an aircraft does not need constant steering it does not make it nervous.

If a moving joystick would give me that I might prefer it. but I do not think that will ever be possible with moving parts.

[Snave 466]

Interesting, and thanks for the report. Must give one a try sometime as I really get annoyed about the centre sloppiness in standard controllers.