Robert S 75 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi Question for Aerosoft, - I was just browsing looking to purchase another scenery package when I noticed that only *some* products are more expensive in download version than their Boxed CD counterparts... This isn't consistent across the product line - in most cases the downloadable version is less expensive usually. For instance, VFR London X is more expensive as a download product than a box CD. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArneH 15 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hello Robert, for me it's vice versa and obviously correct. The Box version costs 35.99€ and the Download version costs 32.95€. Maybe you just mixed it up? Greetz Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S 75 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Nope - just confirmed again - some download products are more expensive than the box CD version - BUT THIS ON THE U.S. $ SITE Perhaps the Euro conversion is fine? Anyone else in the U.S. seeing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Vendors are free to charge what they feel provides a commercial profit. If it's a big download then obviously the cost of providing the server capable of fielding peak demand requirements usually just after release and the network capable of fielding a large demand for a large product including customer support often far exceeds what it costs to create, market, package and deliver the equivalent hardware-based product, especially when the demand for CD or DVD-based products is a tiny proportion of the overall market. In addition, basic economics teaches us much about the Laws of Supply and Demand... on a larger non-specific basis, one may not be able to defer all costs of aftermarket support into a single aspect of sales, so one disseminates the costs of those services according to where the peak demand is coming from. No point in allocating 100% of support costs to the couple of dozen DVD sales, making them exhorbitantly expensive when you can load the majority market with a small marginal extra cost and inflict lower support charges on the individual customer. Alternatively, this can be simply used as a marginal additional revenue stream with a smaller per-customer margin but leading to larger overall profitability. If I ask you for a million dollars you wont give it to me, but if I ask you and a million others for a dollar each, I make a million and one... From a consumer the choice is simple: Buy cheap, buy expensive... or buy not at all. After that, pricing is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S 75 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Vendors are free to charge what they feel provides a commercial profit. If it's a big download then obviously the cost of providing the server capable of fielding peak demand requirements usually just after release and the network capable of fielding a large demand for a large product including customer support often far exceeds what it costs to create, market, package and deliver the equivalent hardware-based product, especially when the demand for CD or DVD-based products is a tiny proportion of the overall market. In addition, basic economics teaches us much about the Laws of Supply and Demand... on a larger non-specific basis, one may not be able to defer all costs of aftermarket support into a single aspect of sales, so one disseminates the costs of those services according to where the peak demand is coming from. No point in allocating 100% of support costs to the couple of dozen DVD sales, making them exhorbitantly expensive when you can load the majority market with a small marginal extra cost and inflict lower support charges on the individual customer. Alternatively, this can be simply used as a marginal additional revenue stream with a smaller per-customer margin but leading to larger overall profitability. If I ask you for a million dollars you wont give it to me, but if I ask you and a million others for a dollar each, I make a million and one... From a consumer the choice is simple: Buy cheap, buy expensive... or buy not at all. After that, pricing is what it is. Understood Simon, but the same downloadable product is cheaper than the CD version on the European site; it is only more expensive than the CD box on the U.S. site. There may be a reason for this discrepency (Europe vs U.S.), or it could just be an error on the U.S. Aerosoft web page (I am hoping) as the majority of downloadable products are less expensive than the CD Box version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I think the answer is clear: Two companies, operating if the same market areas but with different local economic realities, are going to charge different prices for the same product. This is as true of flight sim products as it is of anything else, and as localised pricing structures reflect local trends and exchange rate pressures - Aerosofts home base is in the Euro zone, and converting anything Euro to any other currency can currently show major price fluctuations. This is also true in the globalised marine industry I work in - we have suppliers all over the globe supplying us, and in turn we supply to end users the world over. But the same product sourced from one country can show considerable discrepancy over another, particularly when looking at European v. USA pricing. Exchange rates. And that's before you consider the impact of local taxation. I wonder whether the price comparison you have made is AFTER tax? We have to add 15% VAT to all purchases in the UK, similar tax exists across Europe, and these taxes are added at Point of Sale, NOT on the pricing pages for the product themselves as at that point the screen neither knows nor cares where the potential consumer is based. Have you mistaken the page price for the purchase price..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S 75 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Well, here in the U.S. we do not pay sales tax on Aerosoft products (as compared to European customers, who must count on an addition to the advertised price which will be the VAT upon checkout), so the price we see ends up being the final price we pay; and the comparison to the European site I am making is not monetary based (i.e. - "Why is it cheaper on the Euro page vs the U.S. page?"), but rather: "Why is the one download product more expensive than it's CD based counterpart when all other download products on the same page are less expensive than the CD box version?" And I completely agree with your explanation of these relevant economic factors, except that it should be applied consistently to all products on the website. Ergo, either ALL boxed CD products will be more expensive or ALL downloadable products will be more expensive becuase of these factors. Your [correct] statements about economic conditions should not be impacted product to product...so, perhaps there is yet another reason why this one particular product is more expensive as a download version when compared to all other products comparisons on the website.... However, - perhaps I am not making myself clear here. To simplify: I would estimate that approximately 95% of all download products on the U.S. website are less expensive than their CD boxed counterparts on the U.S. website, except for just 2 or 3 products, VFR London City being one of them. On the European site, all download products are less expensive than their CD boxed counterparts. I am looking for an explanation to the "exception to the rule" here. Clear as mud...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No, you are absolutely clear. You think the laws of supply and demand should not apply to FS products. The price discrepancy shows incisively that they do. The reasons are legion. The justification has been explained. Call if profiteering, call it market forces, in our world the clever consumer buys the disk OR the download, depending in which is cheaper, and their demand for instant gratification. One guesses in the USA different criterion apply to `overseas` products which are less in demand as we all know how parochial the Yanks are toward their simulation. So charge more for `overseas` downloads that have to be supplied to US consumers, yet supported from Europe. Well spotted. Lets hope many consumers take advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiflyer 129 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 An interesting subject for me, as I was in BestBuy recently and was startled to see a few Aerosoft products for sale. Addons for FSX in US retail stores are almost nonexistant, so I was very interested. The first thing I noticed however, was the price. One of the items was the 747-400 from pmdg and it was going for $29.99 Having never purchased such a high end plane before, I was uncertain what the usual price for such an addon was, but I had a vague memory that it was pretty pricey indeed. Later, I went on the web, and sure enough, the price for even a download version is much closer to $80.00! (Holy bargains, Batman!) The other Aerosoft items were also at similar discounts, and I thought the whole thing was (besides being a bargain) a little inexplicable as well. I won't look a gift horse in the mouth, but I did wonder if somebody had made a mistake! Suddenly a plane I would probably have never purchased (too complicated) is looking very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S 75 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 An interesting subject for me, as I was in BestBuy recently and was startled to see a few Aerosoft products for sale. Addons for FSX in US retail stores are almost nonexistant, so I was very interested. The first thing I noticed however, was the price. One of the items was the 747-400 from pmdg and it was going for $29.99 Having never purchased such a high end plane before, I was uncertain what the usual price for such an addon was, but I had a vague memory that it was pretty pricey indeed. Later, I went on the web, and sure enough, the price for even a download version is much closer to $80.00! (Holy bargains, Batman!) The other Aerosoft items were also at similar discounts, and I thought the whole thing was (besides being a bargain) a little inexplicable as well. I won't look a gift horse in the mouth, but I did wonder if somebody had made a mistake! Suddenly a plane I would probably have never purchased (too complicated) is looking very interesting! Yes, it's getting confusing now. My BestBuy has 4 Aerosoft FSX boxed products, all priced at $29.99: PMDG 747-400X SeaHawk & JayHawk F16 Fighting Falcon DHC-6 Twin Otter (Note these are high-end items at very low U.S. prices that must still be supported in Europe) I also see an announcement on the Aerosoft website stating that "Boxed products are now sold from our new US-Shop Aerosoft USA, Inc. with shipping costs from US $6.99" which actually turns out to be a house in Massachusets that also reps Children's interactive touch-screen computer play sets... I can certainly play the savvy consumer and just pay the lowest price I find, but if I were Aerosoft I would universally charge less for download versions, and pocket the extra profit be cutting out the middlemen. Just my two cents worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur B. Hawkins 0 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I feel same here as you feel. Downloading of products are more expensive, costing should be reduce by the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 7, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted November 7, 2009 Two comments. If a download is more expensive then the same product on the same shop and same region (VAT etc) I like to know as it is something we most certainly do not like or want. Generally we will have 2 Euro difference (besides shipping cost). For some products the boxed is the same cost as the download though. For example developers insist on that we'll not drop a deal because of that. Personally I have not bought any boxed software since Windows XP, no need for boxes. Second... The dollar/Euro rate is causing us major problems. The weak dollars makes it hard for US customers to buy our software, even without paying VAT. US retailers just will not sell FSX addons for $49.95 so if we want it in the store there we got to take their prices. You will see this more or less reflected in the prices if you go to our US section of the site. So in the future you might see more divers prices on our different shops. Sign of the times. Third... (mmm three comments). The PMDG price issue is a nasty one, we are fully aware of that one and are working on it. The other prices are more or less compatible with what we ask. But believe me, we are seriously looking into that. Even considering he fact we seriously want more products in the US market and are willing to take less money to get that done, it hurts in many ways. I can only advise customers to take advantage at this moment. US customers can get very good deals at this moment. It's a issue that comes up every few months. We will never have the same prices all over the world. If a retailer comes to us and want to order w whopping load of products for a new market, we are more than willing to deal. Getting products in BestBuy was reason for a rather serious party in our offices. The US market is so darned hard. Certainly when we have do do everything in Euro's. I remember the time 1 euro was 1 dollar. Now a US customer more or less pays 50% more. And we dont get a penny more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 7, 2009 Aerosoft Share Posted November 7, 2009 I feel same here as you feel. Downloading of products are more expensive, costing should be reduce by the company. You mean downloading a product is more expensive for you then paying shipping? I know, certainly in the USA, serious unlimited high bandwidth as is more or less standard in most of Europe, but still, for the $7 shipping that rather normal.... To give you some idea, our average European customer does not care at all about how large a file is. It only means it could take a few hours. we got loads of customers that download 20 Gb of data instead of buying a box. I understand for you this is the opposite? For us digital delivery will always be cheaper. So we always try to share that with the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snave 466 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 As I said: Market forces. Only the really, really naive believe their personal demands supercede commercial forces. Consumer choice, should you choose to understand it, (rather than believe you override it with force of will or idiot commentary), is whether to buy. Or not. Nothing more. Ante up. Or not. THIS is your only choice... Welcome to consumerism at its finest. My, how I wish we Europeans could influence the perceived understanding of the real Global Economy amongst the Yanks. The Dollar is currently the worlds worst currency to do business in. More ups and downs than a whores draws... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiflyer 129 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 You mean downloading a product is more expensive for you then paying shipping? I know, certainly in the USA, serious unlimited high bandwidth as is more or less standard in most of Europe, but still, for the $7 shipping that rather normal.... To give you some idea, our average European customer does not care at all about how large a file is. It only means it could take a few hours. we got loads of customers that download 20 Gb of data instead of buying a box. I understand for you this is the opposite? For us digital delivery will always be cheaper. So we always try to share that with the customer. Which (I think) is the point that was being made. I have purchased several FSX (not necessarily Aerosoft) products recently, and have found the prices sometimes varying quite a bit from store to online store. Prices for downloads are often the exact same or higher than purchasing the box, even when you factor in shipping. (Depending on if there is a US distributer or not) Thats made even more complicated now if things are now available in the store for less than the download, because if thats going to be the case, what possible incentive could there be for US buyers to purchase online? Even more, if the prices are that uneven, I would be surprised if your own products were not re-imported back into Europe at a discount! (Yikes!) I am sure somebody is already in deep thought about all of this, and its not an earth-shaking issue to me, but it does make one curious about who is being paid what, and how customers in higher priced markets could be dissuaded from ordering from the lower-priced markets if, for instance your US download store rates were to become the same as that available in Bestbuy.... My interest is sheer, nosy curiosity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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