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Romano Lara

Changing STAR in-flight

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I'm currently flying to KMSP. Reference to the MUSCL3 RNAV arrival. As you can see there are several transitions with different STAR "end points".

 

I originally selected ILS12R, so that would end at DOLEE. But ATC re-assigned me to 12L, so that is supposed to end at COZZZ. But when I selected ILS 12R, since it doesn't allow change to STAR, it still ends at DOLEE. I had to switch to HDG/TRK mode, then select a completely different STAR and rwy, then select the original STAR and rwy again in order to 'trigger' the correct transition that would put me at COZZZ.

 

I am not sure if this is the correct procedure, if anyone knows, please enlighten me. :)

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Hello Romano, sorry to hear you're having difficulty. 

 

You can always change the STAR during a flight.  What is preventing you from doing this?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Hello Romano, sorry to hear you're having difficulty. 

 

You can always change the STAR during a flight.  What is preventing you from doing this?

 

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

I am able to change the STAR in flight. What I'm having difficulty with is changing the transition for the same STAR (not the 'via' by the way). Please check the KMSP's MUSCL3 arrival. You will see different end-point if you're cleared for ILS12L or 12R. I currently don't find this possible in the MCDU. Or I am not doing it correctly.

 

E.g.

 

ARRIVAL1 rwy 12L = ABC -> ABC1 -> ABC2 -> Z -> ILS

ARRIVAL1 rwy 12R = ABC -> ABC1 -> ABC2 -> Y -> ILS

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Okay, it's a bug.

 

Basically, the former runway information (12R) is not being removed when the new runway is selected, however the new (replacement) runway (12L) information is being added.

 

Until we can look at this, simply consult the charts and manually delete the waypoints for the previously selected runway.

 

By the way, this occurs sometimes in real life as well, and the pilots make the same manual deletions.  But it is a problem and we'll add it to be corrected.  I'll check a few more airports for this issue as well.

 

Many thanks for the report!

 

Best wishes!

 

 

EDIT:  I tested at several other airports and did not see the bug, so it appears it's only at KMSP.

 

Bug reported filed.

 

 

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Thanks for the quick revert!

 

I will also continue to check with other airports as well. 

 

Another airport with a similar layout of procedure if KBOS (e.g. JFUND2), I will test it there as well with a quick flight.

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Easy way how to change STAR in flight.

Presume that you are fly: Dest: KMSP/ STAR: MUSCL3 - RNAV Y12R vias Greak and  ATC change RWY from 12R to RNAV Y 12L vias CMMO

 

Try this:

1/ F-PLN page

2/ lat. rev. page

3/  select new dest - KMSP ( by this way you delete previous star and rwy) 

4/ insert rwy RNAV Y 12L

5/ insert star: MUSCL3    

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1 hour ago, windsky said:

Easy way how to change STAR in flight.

Presume that you are fly: Dest: KMSP/ STAR: MUSCL3 - RNAV Y12R vias Greak and  ATC change RWY from 12R to RNAV Y 12L vias CMMO

 

Try this:

1/ F-PLN page

2/ lat. rev. page

3/  select new dest - KMSP ( by this way you delete previous star and rwy) 

4/ insert rwy RNAV Y 12L

5/ insert star: MUSCL3    

 

Thanks for the information (sincerely), however this isn't the problem.  The OP correctly identified a bug in the software (see my posts after his).

 

Best wishes!

 

 

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7 hours ago, windsky said:

Easy way how to change STAR in flight.

Presume that you are fly: Dest: KMSP/ STAR: MUSCL3 - RNAV Y12R vias Greak and  ATC change RWY from 12R to RNAV Y 12L vias CMMO

 

Try this:

1/ F-PLN page

2/ lat. rev. page

3/  select new dest - KMSP ( by this way you delete previous star and rwy) 

4/ insert rwy RNAV Y 12L

5/ insert star: MUSCL3    

 

This did work, thanks. But the caveat is; it deletes the entirety of the flight plan. I'm worried this method might pose an issue in places where the controller issues the arrival clearance 300nm out from the STAR entry point. But I guess you can always postpone it. In the meantime, I will just copy to secfpln the route without any arrival pre-programmed in case an online ATC issues a revision later.

 

By the way Dave, the same happens at KBOS, try the JFUND2. In the chart there are different transitions per runway. E.g. SCITU for rwys 32/33L. If ATC changes your arrival later to rwy 27, the routes programmed in the MCDU will still put you on SCITU instead of SEHAG.

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When i fly Airbus and want to change runway for landing:

 

1. F-PLN page

2. Just mark the runway you set up for landing

3. Select the new runway for approach

4. Select the new STAR

5. Clean up if needed waypoints not needed

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Small amendment.

All lateral changes (interventions) in actual flight plan (for example replacement RWY or VIA for approach) should be perform in SEC-FPLN. 

 

1. Sec FPLN

2. Copy active (KMSP, MUSCL3, via GREAK, RNAV Y 12R)

3. lat. rev. page

4. select new dest - KMSP ( by this way you delete previous star and rwy) 

5. insert rwy: RNAV Y 12L

6 insert star: MUSCL3, via CMMOE 

7 In approach page: enter destination data

8. activate: Sec FPLN

 

Happy landing 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AAC47 said:

Don't overdo it

 

Kindly re-read the thread. I know how to change the STAR in-flight, what I was asking is entirely different. 🙄

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"By the way Dave, the same happens at KBOS, try the JFUND2. In the chart there are different transitions per runway. E.g. SCITU for rwys 32/33L. If ATC changes your arrival later to rwy 27, the routes programmed in the MCDU will still put you on SCITU instead of SEHAG."

 

I made a test approach JFUND2 with SCITU  runway 32 and changed to runway 27 by entering in primary flightplan and JFUND2 arrival...

 

SCITU was replaced by SEHAG and the approach and landing was performed normally

 

I flew A318 with update 1.2.3.4 and Navigraph 1904

 

Can you show a picture of the MCDU before and after the change of runway for landing.....??

 

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