Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Hi,Just flown a couple of circling approaches and it seems that the autoflight system doesn't work correctly:I made the initial instrument approach using 'approach' mode, to fly a fully coupled ILS approach down to the circling minima. Approaching MDA, I 'pushed to level off', expecting the aircraft to level off, but it did not: the FCU showed VS 0000, but the FMA continued to show G/S and the aircraft continued down the ILS glideslope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 25, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 25, 2015 Well you are using the autoflight incorrectly. Push to level off does not work with the GS mode. First change to TRK/FPA before pushing the VS knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 I beg to differ: 'push to level off' should work with G/S captured in approach mode. This method is routinely used when training circling approaches during type rating courses on the A320.Good spot about TRK/FPA. I re-flew the approach with TRK/FPA selected: this time the FCU showed FPA +0.0, but the FMA still showed G/S & the aircraft continued down the ILS glideslope as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 25, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 25, 2015 And to what lateral mode would the AFS change in these TR courses when push to level off would work? With TRK/FPA I also meant to have these modes active. When approaching the minima you pull the HDG knob and make sure you are in TRK and FPA. If you are flying an RNAV circling you should also activate the SEC and DIR TO now. I can not imagine that is done in LOC/GS mode nowadays during TR's. I am not the last authority in these matters so if possible please supply some original Airbus SOP material/videos concerning push to level off during circlings. It's always interesting to see what other airlines are up to. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 The lateral mode remains in LOC until you pull heading, at which point it changes to heading (track) mode.What is so strange about flying the instrument approach in approach mode if there is an ILS available? How would you fly the initial instrument approach down to MDA?Yes, you should activate the secondary flight plan (for the landing runway) at some point during the circling portion of the manoeuvre. But beware: you lose the missed approach procedure for the instrument approach runway when you do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 25, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 25, 2015 What is so strange about flying the instrument approach in approach mode if there is an ILS available? How would you fly the initial instrument approach down to MDA? In LOC/GS ofcourse, just like I mentioned in the above post. With regard to the push to level off, any proof to back it all up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 But you said previously that you can't imagine it being done in LOC/GS mode!How are you tracking the glideslope? And how do you level off at MDA using LOC/GS?Proof? Push the knob! What makes you think it shouldn't work?Regarding your request for supporting material, unfortunately Airbus don't provide it in their FCOM/FCTM, they just say vague things about 'levelling off at MDA'. And the systems descriptions don't make it clear when 'pushing to level off' works/doesn't work. But I have seen this method taught by Airbus-trained instructors and by instructors from a well known European low-cost operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 Sorry, I forgot that you are not a real Airbus pilot and when starting a new sentence where I was refering to an RNAV circling I obviously meant that part when you activate the SEC FPLN. Before you do this you must get out of LOC. How do I track the GS and or the LOC when I already leveled off at the minimum? I totally disregarding the GS when I am leveled off at/after reaching the circling minima. And from here you are visual so I do my primary tracking at the minimum by looking outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 As for pushing buttons to see what they do while transporting 200 pax, that is a big no no in RW aviation. If you ever persue a career as an RW airline pilot I would advise you to drop that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 And to round it all up. When I am in a simulator I will check you claim. If you think you saw a bug but have no proof of it: http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/85533-I-think-there's-a-bug%2C-but-the-developers-don't-believe-so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Sorry, I forgot that you are not a real Airbus pilot and when starting a new sentence where I was refering to an RNAV circling I obviously meant the part when you activate the SEC FPLN. Before you do this you must get out of LOC. How do I track the GS and or the LOC when I already leveled off at the minimum? I totally disregarding the GS when I am leveled off at/after reaching the circling minima. And from here you are visual so I do my primary tracking at the minimum by looking outside.I think we both know what to do after reaching circling minima, but my question, which you have not answered, is "How do you get there?" For example, let's say we are established on the localiser at a platform altitude of 3,000' and need to descend to the circling minima of, say, 1,000'. My method, flying a fully coupled ILS approach, using approach mode and then pushing to level off is perfectly valid. In fact, you can fly any kind of approach, from ILS to fully managed RNAV and push to level off when approaching circling minima. Please explain your method. As for pushing buttons to see what they do while transporting 200 pax, that is a big no no in RW aviation. If you ever persue a career as an RW airline pilot I would advise you to drop that attitude.I don't think I ever suggested that you randomly press buttons during RW operations. I do suggest the use of valid and approved techniques and procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 As a moderator in this forum I have deleted your last comments as they are condescending and not befitting any forum member. Any further discussion about the deleted part will also be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 And to round it all up. When I am in a simulator I will check you claim. If you think you saw a bug but have no proof of it: http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/85533-I-think-there's-a-bug%2C-but-the-developers-don't-believe-so!Thank you, I look forward to learning what you find... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Confirmed. push to level off works IRL. I was surprised about this feature because e.g. in the 767 you couldn't do that.one of the quotes from LPC-NG: Push in the V/S FPA knob for an immediate level off (V/S = 0)BTW, as a few people here know, I LOVE to experiment IRL to check if the Aerosoft A320 is correct or not Thank you very much for your confirmation.You can't do it in a 737 either, but it is definitely an A320 feature.  Perhaps AS would be kind enough to address this issue sometime, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 No problem! The dev just needs a video as proof (he does not believe RW pilots on their word) and it will most probably make SP4 and the A330. So ---, would you be so kind? Smartphone video will do and below 1000 RA. PFD and FCU visible please. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 No problem! The dev just needs a video as proof (he does not believe RW pilots on their word) and it will most probably make SP4 and the A330. So ---, would you be so kind? Smartphone video will do.I am running this exercise for a crew in a Level D sim next week & can video it: would that be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted September 26, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted September 26, 2015 I do think so. As long as it is a level D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 I do think so. As long as it is a level D.It is definitely Level D. I will upload it next weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Here you go...For good measure, this was a manually flown, single-engine, ILS to circling approach. But it works just the same in normal operation.Push to Level Off.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted October 5, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks for the video, I will make the dev aware of it. Only caveat is that it is an EIS1 aircraft so I guess the dev also needs proof of that on an EIS2. As you know there are differences between to two but we can must probably rule that out for this function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted October 5, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted October 5, 2015 Just spoke with the Dev. It is now in the to do list. Thanks again for the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrideruk 4 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yes, it is an older version, but it works just the same with current versions.Thanks for getting this done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Bug Noted, Will be fixed in the next Major Service pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Because we believe this topic has been answered we have closed it. If you have any more questions feel free to open a new topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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