Speed Problems at Cuise and Final

[wereiche 10]

I have exactly the same Problem during the landing Approach,in cruise flight, it has become a Little better with the Athr.XML- file,I' m waiting for the V. 1.3.1 !

es occurs particulary at low FPS

best regards!

[Stathis Z. 6]

I have the exact same problem as well, even with hotfix 1.30e. The aircraft is having difficulty achieving Vapp in managed mode and with A/THR in general.

Even in managed mode, when it changes attack angle on its own to compensate for micro-corrections in the glide slope, the throttles oscillates too much. If you disengage the A/P to land, the situation is worse, because when you correct your glide path by pitching up a bit, the engines go crazy momentarily. Meanwhile, if you need to go nose down for a bit to get on the correct path, the speed jumps up due to the previous spool up which hasn't died down yet. This occurs on cruise level as well but there it is much more moderate usually.

I have observed it closely and when for example I cruise at say N1 = 80%, with the tiniest bump from the wind and the slightest movement on the projected speed prediction, the engines may spool down up to 10% resulting in light oscillation for a while. The way I see it there is a mismatch in how the autopilot scales thrust for the projected speed change at current thrust. If your approach speed is say 135kts and you pitch up very slightly, your projected airspeed will go down a few knots momentarily and engines will spool up too much immediately and will ruin your descent. It doesn't make sense to spool from 40% N1 up to 75% to correct a momentary change in the predicted speed by 5 knots. Seems to me that the algorithm for the autopilot's thrust compensation isn't scaled well with predicted airspeed change magnitude.

I've flown mostly with the IAE engines, so I can't confirm if this is happening with CFM engines as well.

[Ilya1998 92]

By the way: I've just seen the video from Frank in another topic. After take off while retracting the flaps to 0 you see that the engines remain at climb thrust until reaching the selected speed. As you can see in my video's that's not the case for me (however it was before SP3).

In my case the engines always spool down after the flap retraction however they're still far from reaching the selected speed.

Can other people with this problem confirm this behavior?

Maybe that's interesting information for you for better understanding the problem? Hope it can help you.. Sorry if it can't

[Stathis Z. 6]

By the way: I've just seen the video from Frank in another topic. After take off while retracting the flaps to 0 you see that the engines remain at climb thrust until reaching the selected speed. As you can see in my video's that's not the case for me (however it was before SP3).

In my case the engines always spool down after the flap retraction however they're still far from reaching the selected speed.

Can other people with this problem confirm this behavior?

Maybe that's interesting information for you for better understanding the problem? Hope it can help you.. Sorry if it can't

I tried out a few stuff mate. My situation was pretty similar to yours. I had installed the hotfix after using the 1.30v a while. What I did and seems to work for now is

A. Uninstall the aircraft from windows' add or remove programs.

B. Delete the aerosoft folder in My Documents, the aerosoft folder in FSX main (if there) and the Aerosoft Airbus folder in SimObjects(if there again). Don't delete in simobjects a plane named Airbus a321, as this is the default fsx one.

C. Don't delete the allow entries for the aircraft's modules in fsx configs.

D. Install the SP3 version, when prompted to restart wait and additionally install the RAAS if you want it. Then, apply the hotfix and then restart. You shouldn't load FSX before you apply the hotfix.

I just did a difficult crosswind landing with no oscillation problem. I had some difficulty getting the speed down, but the aircraft was at max landing weight too. I'll try once more to see if there's any oscillation

[Alexrbus 0]

Personally, and despite having installed 1.30e and other new ATHR file. The problem discussed in this post is still present on my simulator. I specify.... with or without weather and do not tell me about FPS (as I have read) I have absolutely no worries on that side.

Meanwhile and since the installation of SP3 and other service pack I no longer use this Addon. I still expected a few weeks ago but I can not find a real solution to this problematic by Aerosoft.

I ask myself to return to the previous version of the SP3. Yes I kept the old software to install it. Is a chance for me who love flying on Airbus and especially with this addon.

You probably do everything you can to address this problem, but I admit that I also begin to find the time long for a problem that is far from resolved for everyone.

Thank you for your attention and your understanding.

[Stathis Z. 6]

Personally, and despite having installed 1.30e and other new ATHR file. The problem discussed in this post is still present on my simulator. I specify.... with or without weather and do not tell me about FPS (as I have read) I have absolutely no worries on that side.

Meanwhile and since the installation of SP3 and other service pack I no longer use this Addon. I still expected a few weeks ago but I can not find a real solution to this problematic by Aerosoft.

I ask myself to return to the previous version of the SP3. Yes I kept the old software to install it. Is a chance for me who love flying on Airbus and especially with this addon.

You probably do everything you can to address this problem, but I admit that I also begin to find the time long for a problem that is far from resolved for everyone.

Thank you for your attention and your understanding.

Did you uninstall it it completely and reinstall all the files at once like I said above? It solved the oscillation problem completely for me, without the ATHR file modification. There still is an issue on approach, because the plane spools up the engines too early. Say you're at 200 knots going for 170. If you open the airbrakes, the engine spools up before you reach the speed of 170, so with 170 you actually never reach it but remain at 180-190.

This is annoying, but nevertheless the aircraft is fully usable and generally is ok to fly and land after reinstalling it the way I outlined above. I generally feel that the airbrakes in this aircraft aren't really doing anything. Normally, you would open them and close them in intervals and this is enough to get the speed down even in descent, but in this airbus they don't seem to be working properly, even when constantly on, because the engines spool up too early. It is practically impossible to reach the managed or set ATHR speed when you are on final and your actual approach speed will always be +5-10 knots above, because the engines spool up before you reach the correct speed. As I said before there is an obvious error in scaling the autothrottle with the predicted airspeed difference.

It just spools up too early. This makes it difficult to land under winds because the engines go crazy. However, I do believe that if you follow the steps I outlined above and uninstall, remove all files and folders and reinstall the SP3 version and the hotfix directly after it without loading the aircraft, it will make the aircraft usable in 95% of the scenarios you may encounter with realtime weather.

[Ilya1998 92]

Ezavvos, I don't really get your argument. You are saying that you have solved the oscillation problem, but further in your post you're describing the A/THR problem isn't solved.

I told in the beginning in the first topic; My problem are not only the oscillation of the engines but the unflyable autothrust system I'm experiencing in the SP3. For example even when I'm climbing to my cruise altitude there are moments when the speed is 30 knots above the selected one and the aircraft keeps flying with the same attitude and does nothing to correct it. (With no turbulence at all)

If the oscillation problems is solved but the aircraft can not decelerate to approach speed I do not consider it as a solved bug. Sorry if I may sound disrespectful that's not my intention.

For you, I'm thankful that you did your best to try to solve the bug and shared it with us. What was not the case with the Aerosoft.

I really do not understand why there are at first many staff posting in the thread which ensure us "That the problem is solved because they do not have it", and when I post the video of the problem we experience and other members confirm seeing the same behavior on their system the staff keeps posting in all other threads except this one. It feels like aerosoft thinks "Yeah guys there are just around 10 of you and however you're our costumers that's not enough to spend our precious time so bye lol". Not very professional, is it?

[Stathis Z. 6]

Ezavvos, I don't really get your argument. You are saying that you have solved the oscillation problem, but further in your post you're describing the A/THR problem isn't solved.

I told in the beginning in the first topic; My problem are not only the oscillation of the engines but the unflyable autothrust system I'm experiencing in the SP3. For example even when I'm climbing to my cruise altitude there are moments when the speed is 30 knots above the selected one and the aircraft keeps flying with the same attitude and does nothing to correct it. (With no turbulence at all)

If the oscillation problems is solved but the aircraft can not decelerate to approach speed I do not consider it as a solved bug. Sorry if I may sound disrespectful that's not my intention.

For you, I'm thankful that you did your best to try to solve the bug and shared it with us. What was not the case with the Aerosoft.

I really do not understand why there are at first many staff posting in the thread which ensure us "That the problem is solved because they do not have it", and when I post the video of the problem we experience and other members confirm seeing the same behavior on their system the staff keeps posting in all other threads except this one. It feels like aerosoft thinks "Yeah guys there are just around 10 of you and however you're our costumers that's not enough to spend our precious time so bye lol". Not very professional, is it?

Yes I am saying I had the exact same problems, which I solved that way, so there is no oscillation in the engines when I climb, when I retract flaps and when I cruise.

The problem on final is still there because the engines spool up too early so you can't get a correct VAPP speed when you are pitch down, but they definitely don't oscillate after I reinstalled it properly. After watching some videos from real a320 landings in the cockpit, I realised that this happens in reality too due to the mass of the aircraft. If you watch actual airbus landing videos, you will see that the aircraft in reality is in a speed greater than VApp when it is descending the glideslope. It achieves the correct Vapp only a few hundred feet above the runway where the descent path is shallower and the pitch goes nose up. If you start reducing your speed early enough, then it flies correctly. For reference, from the videos I've watched, airbus pilots and ATC usually set a speed of 180 at 6-7000 feet on a continuous descent. They rarely if ever use the speedbrakes, they just set reduced speed early.

Furthermore, if you watch how pilots reduce the aircraft's speed in continuous descent to Vapp in reality, you will see that for example with ILS, they follow it up to a certain point and usually they intentionally go below the glideslope and lift nose up to catch it again, in order to reduce speed to Vapp. This happens without turning off the autopilot because normally it allows for corrections from the stick. However, you can do this on your own as well and re-enable the AP. Many times, even with ILS the pilot will fly the aircraft manually apart from set speed and follow the ILS markers on his own. If you watch how they fly visual approaches, they again get below the glideslope early, so the lights on the runway are all red and gradually they lift nose up until they catch the correct descent path, which reduces the speed to Vapp. If you catch the glideslope from below, then speed does get down. There is no way to achieve Vapp if you are continuously nose down until 200 feet from the runway, even in reality. In my case yes, there is some early spool up but it is definitely manageable if you catch the slope correctly.

Why don't you try what I suggested and see for yourself? I'm telling you I had all the issues you described after installing the hotfix, but after removing the whole aircraft and all its files and installing it at once together with the hotfix they are mostly gone. I'd definitely like to see side stick priority implemented though, which would really help to fly the aircraft properly.

[Ilya1998 92]

Ezavvos,

I have not said that I didn't believe you, but so to see just didn't understand what you meant in your previous comment. Thanks for clearing it up.

So can you confirm; The speed doesn't reach the Vapp in the approach and stays around 5-10 knots above it? (Actually 10 is too much for real world but okay)

And you said the Vapp is not being reached because the engines spool up too early, but after spooling up they just remain stable without going up and down?

I'm thankful that you shared solution for the problem, but as I said several times in this topic I'm very busy these weeks and just had no time to do those steps and test it. To be fair I hoped that someone else would try and confirm if their bug had disappeared.

[Stathis Z. 6]

Ezavvos,

I have not said that I didn't believe you, but so to see just didn't understand what you meant in your previous comment. Thanks for clearing it up.

So can you confirm; The speed doesn't reach the Vapp in the approach and stays around 5-10 knots above it? (Actually 10 is too much for real world but okay)

And you said the Vapp is not being reached because the engines spool up too early, but after spooling up they just remain stable without going up and down?

I'm thankful that you shared solution for the problem, but as I said several times in this topic I'm very busy these weeks and just had no time to do those steps and test it. To be fair I hoped that someone else would try and confirm if their bug had disappeared.

Yes, the speed does stay 5-10 knots above in approach, and yes that is because the engines spool up soon. However, as I told you above, this only happens if you are on a continuous descent and this happens in reality too. If you catch the glideslope from below and go pitch up earlier, the speed gets down to Vapp and the aircraft keeps it correctly after I reinstalled it. The problem is actually that you can't make corrections when the AP is on, which is what pilots do in reality when landing in managed mode. Instead, the only thing you can do it to use airbrakes which will spool up the engines too, so this doesn't work out and is also wrong to use speedbrakes with flaps down at 3 or full because you lose a lot of lift. It would be easier to manage this with side stick priority when full managed is on. I usually fly the ILS approaches manually though, so I get below the slope at 1000 feet and then pitch a bit up to catch it again and this seems to set Vapp correctly, without the engines spooling too much.

[The Dude 6537]

I really do not understand why there are at first many staff posting in the thread which ensure us "That the problem is solved because they do not have it", and when I post the video of the problem we experience and other members confirm seeing the same behavior on their system the staff keeps posting in all other threads except this one. It feels like aerosoft thinks "Yeah guys there are just around 10 of you and however you're our costumers that's not enough to spend our precious time so bye lol". Not very professional, is it?

Hi IIya1998,

I am also a very busy man like you and I just "wasted" 30 minutes to check your video and reproduce.

First off, thanks for posting a video. It makes it so much easier for us to see what is going on. Keep that up!

Next, I am not saying that it is your system BUT:

- if you do not correctly configure your Airbus and fail to notice so and then make a video of it and post it here I am not so sure you "know" what you are doing.

Taking off without entering weights and or Cruiselevel and then trying to fly managed is a big nono. In RL and in the sim. Try the same pattern with a fully configured FMGC and show us that video please. Maybe we can then see the real problem you seem to have.

Things you should have noticed, no S/F/greendot speeds in your FMGC, no vertical (blank) mode after acc alt etc.

If you do not fly the plane like you should stuff will happen that will not happen when you do everything correct.

Thanks

[Stathis Z. 6]

Oh god, I just noticed that after you said it. The FMC hasn't calculated anything.

Mate have you read the manual? I can see your plane is loaded in the right MCDU. Have you enter the block fuel field in the second page of the INIT menu? Have you set an approach so you get the correct approach speed? How did you determine your approach speed? How did you load the aircraft, how is it balanced front or back? Furthermore, you catch the glideslope from above, so no wonder the plane is having difficulty maintaining the correct attitude. You intercept the ILS from below, not above. If you had set an arrival procedure it would have given you the correct altitude to be at when you intercept the ILS.

If you intercept the ILS from above the slope, the aircraft may set its V/S correctly for the slope, but its attitude may be wrong. As the slope gets shallower it will shift nose up to maintain the slope, which is why your aircraft is bouncing up and down.

Furthermore, the plane seems to arrive at the runway at exactly the speed you set manually and you touchdown at approximately Vapp -5,maybe +1 knot, so I don't really get what the problem is which 5-10 knots are you talking about? This is normal. Sometimes for various reasons like wind, turbulence etc, (apart from the fact you haven't set the FMC correctly) it happens that the aircraft is a bit above on speed.

Do you believe aircraft always arrive at exactly Vapp? The aircraft controls the excess speed with its flaring before it touches down, (with managed not set speed) or the pilot does it manually if they need to or if they fly the approach manually. You never autoland with speed set by you. When you see pilots setting the speed, they use the ILS but they follow the localiser and slope manually which is very common. When you set the speed yourself, the FMC stops accounting for speed when choosing its attitude and speed is managed only by the engines. The aircraft focuses its attitude solely on the approach, so of course it can't keep the speed you have set accurately, because it has to maintain a certain pitch and attitude. This is why the engines oscillate. If you have it managed, it will account for speed too and it will choose an attitude that keeps Vapp AND the glideslope.

We were talking about a different problem of the engines going crazy and accelerating way past the Vapp by the way. What you are experiencing, at least from the video I saw is because you don't use the aircraft correctly. Read the manuals well. Also when you autoland, speed always at managed. If you want to set the speed, fly the approach visually or by following the ILS markers yourself, so that you account for the speed also. If it's high, you slightly pitch up. When it drops, then you correct the descent path with very subtle moves. When you autoland, you reduce speed by activating the approach phase, not by setting it. When the speed is set, the aircraft won't correct its attitude to account for speed. Only when the speed is managed it will do it. In another post you say that the aircraft won't correct the attitude to reduce speed. This is why it happens. If you set speed, it will only reduce thrust to reduce speed. If throttle is idle and the speed too high, there is nothing more it can do in set mode. The same happens if you set altitude; it will always keep the V/S, no matter how much your speed may be. You don't fly in mixed modes. Either you fly fully managed, or managed speed and autopilot off, or set speed and autopilot off or on with set altitude. If you want the plane to autoland you let it manage it. Otherwise, you do it yourself.

Seriously, is no one reading the manuals?

[Ilya1998 92]

Hi IIya1998,

I am also a very busy man like you and I just "wasted" 30 minutes to check your video and reproduce.

First off, thanks for posting a video. It makes it so much easier for us to see what is going on. Keep that up!

Next, I am not saying that it is your system BUT:

- if you do not correctly configure your Airbus and fail to notice so and then make a video of it and post it here I am not so sure you "know" what you are doing.

Taking off without entering weights and or Cruiselevel and then trying to fly managed is a big nono. In RL and in the sim. Try the same pattern with a fully configured FMGC and show us that video please. Maybe we can then see the real problem you seem to have.

Things you should have noticed, no S/F/greendot speeds in your FMGC, no vertical (blank) mode after acc alt etc.

If you do not fly the plane like you should stuff will happen that will not happen when you do everything correct.

Thanks

I understand that, sorry if I may sounded egoistic.

Fully understandable that you think the problem can be I myself. But I'm flying the bus since the extended, of course know all the manuals/training videos/ A320 videos on youtube and am slowly working on learning the FCOM.

I'll try to make a video of my cockpit preparation as well just to be sure.

And very well noted about the weights and the speeds. Several times a week I have a kind of tradition since I started flying the airbus to fly a little circuit to take off and land on the same runway just to practice my flying skills. I always set the bus to the take-off state, manually fill in the average landing weights, departure/arival airport, to/landing rwy, PERF take off + landing phase. The airbus always behaved like I just flew the entire route and I've never had any problems with this type of flying until the SP3. And by the way precisely the same behavior happens when flying the entire routes (which I've also never seen before SP3)

Oh god, I just noticed that after you said it. The FMC hasn't calculated anything.

Mate have you read the manual? I can see your plane is loaded in the right MCDU. Have you enter the block fuel field in the second page of the INIT menu? Have you set an approach so you get the correct approach speed? How did you determine your approach speed? How did you load the aircraft, how is it balanced front or back? Furthermore, you catch the glideslope from above, so no wonder the plane is having difficulty maintaining the correct attitude. You intercept the ILS from below, not above. If you had set an arrival procedure it would have given you the correct altitude to be at when you intercept the ILS.

If you intercept the ILS from above the slope, the aircraft may set its V/S correctly for the slope, but its attitude may be wrong. As the slope gets shallower it will shift nose up to maintain the slope, which is why your aircraft is bouncing up and down.

Furthermore, the plane seems to arrive at the runway at exactly the speed you set manually and you touchdown at approximately Vapp -5,maybe +1 knot, so I don't really get what the problem is which 5-10 knots are you talking about? This is normal. Sometimes for various reasons like wind, turbulence etc, (apart from the fact you haven't set the FMC correctly) it happens that the aircraft is a bit above on speed.

Do you believe aircraft always arrive at exactly Vapp? The aircraft controls the excess speed with its flaring before it touches down, (with managed not set speed) or the pilot does it manually if they need to or if they fly the approach manually. You never autoland with speed set by you. When you see pilots setting the speed, they use the ILS but they follow the localiser and slope manually which is very common. When you set the speed yourself, the FMC stops accounting for speed when choosing its attitude and speed is managed only by the engines. The aircraft focuses its attitude solely on the approach, so of course it can't keep the speed you have set accurately, because it has to maintain a certain pitch and attitude. This is why the engines oscillate. If you have it managed, it will account for speed too and it will choose an attitude that keeps Vapp AND the glideslope.

We were talking about a different problem of the engines going crazy and accelerating way past the Vapp by the way. What you are experiencing, at least from the video I saw is because you don't use the aircraft correctly. Read the manuals well. Also when you autoland, speed always at managed. If you want to set the speed, fly the approach visually or by following the ILS markers yourself, so that you account for the speed also. If it's high, you slightly pitch up. When it drops, then you correct the descent path with very subtle moves. When you autoland, you reduce speed by activating the approach phase, not by setting it. When the speed is set, the aircraft won't correct its attitude to account for speed. Only when the speed is managed it will do it. In another post you say that the aircraft won't correct the attitude to reduce speed. This is why it happens. If you set speed, it will only reduce thrust to reduce speed. If throttle is idle and the speed too high, there is nothing more it can do in set mode. The same happens if you set altitude; it will always keep the V/S, no matter how much your speed may be. You don't fly in mixed modes. Either you fly fully managed, or managed speed and autopilot off, or set speed and autopilot off or on with set altitude. If you want the plane to autoland you let it manage it. Otherwise, you do it yourself.

Seriously, is no one reading the manuals?

Thank you for your post. It was very generous from you to measure my flying skills and judge them them based on your knowledge, thank you for that. You have asked a lot of questions and told a lot about how an Airbus flies, even while most of your post had nothing to do with the posts above. I think I will answer them respectively, if you do not mind it.

- Yes, I have read the manuals, thank you.

- No, because I flied my traditional circuit: like I've never done before I have not entered the block fuel in INIT B. (Keep in mind; never had problems with that before SP3)

- Yes I had set my approach speed, if you've watched the video I manually entered the speed which was calculated by the MCDU as Vapp

- The Vapp + Vland were calculated by the MCDU according to the weights I had manually entered. That's what I always did when flying my circuit

- I loaded the aircraft via fsx. Then I chose for take off state. The CG was 25% because I entered the weights via the right MCDU

- If you had watched the video you would have seen that I caught the glideslope from below. The airplane was flying on LOC and holding the altitude, then the G/S came alive and the aircraft caught it. By the way: modern aircraft are capable of catching the glideslope from above. It's even nearly a standard procedure when landing with ATC vectors on schiphol for example.

- Also, I'm surprised that a pilot with so much experience and knowledge of the aircraft didn't notice that in my video the airbus had no "difficulty" at all flying the ILS approach. The speed was even held well by the ATHR until around 1200 feet. After that the engines started their progressive oscillation.

- I find it very strange what you said. You don't get the problem? Maybe that the engines are oscillating on final from 30% to 85% n1 while flying the selected speed? Or maybe that because of those oscillations while the attitude is constant the V/S is going +/- 200 feet/minute up and down?

- Thank you for your monologue about that the aircraft does not always land on Vapp but where the hell have you seen me posting that he does? Even such an inexperienced and bad-skilled pilot as me was aware of that all. Thanks.

- It was a wonderful theory from you that the engines oscillate because of manually set Vapp, but sorry - they do the same when flying managed Vapp. And why does the aircraft perfectly fly the Vapp + G/S + LOC up until 1200 feet without oscillation then? By the way I've seen real world pilots landing with manual entered Vapp in the FCU, don't know why, but they did.

- Indeed, very good that you finally noticed it: we were actually talking about the oscillation so I don't know why you change that subject

- When flying the aircraft manually (This was the first time me using Autoland), and disconnecting the AP at around 3000 feet the oscillation are only worse. Because I'm a human being I do not fly in the straight line but constantly making little adjustments. The engines don't know what I will do next and the oscillation becomes much worse.

- Then comes your speech about speed and altitude which I had to read multiple times to understand what you actually mean. Well what you're saying and the facts you're telling have also nothing to do with this problem.

- Yes there are people reading manuals.

Thank you for your time, but next time I would recommend you to better look at what I actually said, and the material I've posted. Oh and please keep the subjects of your posts ontopic

[Stathis Z. 6]

I'm not trying to measure anyone's flying skills and I'm definitely not qualified to do that, nor it is my intention. The only reason I am entering a monologue is because you are abusing your voice and I need to spend my precious time explaining to you those things that are in the manuals, which you insist you read thoroughly, but is obvious you haven't. I am simply pointing out that your argument that the aircraft doesn't correct attitude to reduce speed is invalid, as this is what is supposed to happen if speed is set. Show us an example of the aircraft not correcting attitude in managed mode, after setting it up correctly, so we can talk on the same basis. So please read this post well and without a pinch of salt.

1. You asked me to confirm that the aircraft is 5-10 knots above Vapp, while in your video I see that it clearly achieves Vapp and the speed also gets down to Vls when you set throttles to idle.
2. I have told you repeatedly some posts above that I had an oscillation problem similar to yours, which I solved by reinstalling the aircraft and the hotfix from scratch.
3. In my case, I had set the aircraft correctly for approach. Because we are busy too, have you actually tried that or are we talking about what would theoretically happen if you had properly set it up?

4. I am using the same aircraft, with the same hotfix and I don't have any problems flying it auto or manually after reinstalling it. I haven't even installed the newer ATHR script and it's fine. Even when I set the speed the aircraft keeps it very well. The only case I arrive with higher speed is when there are strong gusts of wind and strong turbulence in low altitude which is normal because the aircraft spools engines up so it doesn't stall. I made that perfectly clear in my previous post, yet your reply was if I can confirm that the aircraft doesn't keep Vapp properly, despite I made perfectly clear when that happens.

5. I can clearly see in your left MCDU that the FMC hasn't calculated green dot speeds. You have also set the decision altitude wrong and this is very important. I am not criticising your flying skills, but your patience and your ability to follow people's suggestions and the manuals. It is an autopilot after all, there are no "flying skills" involved and anyone who believes they are skilled because they can program an autopilot is deluded.

   • You are saying you have read the manuals, but if you had read them you would know that since the airport you are flying to, EDAH, has a CAT1 ILS approach for runway 28, you need to set your decision altitude elsewhere. Despite your plane showing a CAT3 approach (because you have both APs enabled), the glideslope is still CAT1. You can determine that in the airport's charts here: http://www.vacc-sag.org/airport/EDAH
   • For a CAT1 approach, you set a decision altitude (MDA) in the "BARO" field, so the aircraft uses your BARO reference (above the one you have set it). The "RADIO" field where you set the decision height (DH) is used for CAT2 and CAT3 ILS in which the glideslope follows the elevation of terrain below. Also you have to set the decision altitude at the value for decision on go-around in the airport's charts and not arbitrarily. If you look at the charts I told you, you will see that for an ILS approach in your airport, the minimum obstacle clearence height (OCH), ranges from 296 to 326 feet and this is your minimum decision altitude when using ILS. This means that if you are 300 feet above the runway and you don't see it or there are obstacles, you have to abort the landing and go around. After that you are committed to land. So when your AP calls minimums, if you don't abort the landing it trims the aircraft for landing and changes its attitude. Usually this is around 200 feet above the runway and taking into account your runway's elevation which is almost 100 feet, this makes sense. The oscillations and attitude changes you are experiencing happen because there is a mismatch in the reference altitude you get from the radio altimeter and the glideslope the craft is trying to follow. If you haven't noticed, your aircraft starts bouncing and oscillating a lot at around 500-600 feet and the area you are flying over is elevated a bit in comparison to the runway. That is when the Radio altimeter shows you are in the DH of four hundred something, I can't make out clearly the number you have set.
   • In reality, you are almost at 600 feet according to your barometer and at a higher part of the slope than the autopilot thinks. This is a problem because the slope is more steep at the altitude you're in than in the normal decision altitude. Consequently, when the aircraft lifts nose up and trims for landing, after minimums and continue have been called, it shoots above the slope and then it dives nose down to catch it again. This is obvious in your video, where the AP calls 500 and then immediately minimums when you're at almost 600 feet, while minimums should be called at 296 feet. Because the slope is steeper until 300 feet, until it reaches 300 feet it has trouble maintaining landing attitude and the slope. If you notice it becomes better as you get closer to the runway and to the normal MDH. Normally, as I told you above, this should happen at 296 BARO reference for your runway in ILS, but instead is happening in 580 feet in your case, because you have set DH instead of MDH and because the height you have set is wrong. I am pretty sure that if you find the time to read the airport's charts and set up the aircraft properly for the ILS approach you are using, you will have no problem flying it. Thus, in order to set up the autoland correctly, you have to input 296 in the BARO field and not almost 500 which you have set in the RADIO field. Additionally, in FSX, runway altitudes are sometimes a bit off by 10-15 feet, so you may want to add +10 to that. I see that it is off in your case, as the normal elevation is actually close to 90 feet. Also this altitude is not the same you would use for a VOR approach, in which it should be higher like 450 feet.
   • What the AP uses each time as a reference is outlined very well in page 93, point no. 3 of the step by step guide. If you had read the manuals, you would know what the autopilot does in an ILS approach and you wouldn't find my "theories" that weird.
6. I am looking very well at what you say, and I can't see anywhere that you tried setting up the aircraft correctly. I proposed a solution to you some posts before, which worked for me provided you set the approach correctly, and you are trying to argue on that without having even tried to set your approach according to the charts.

Please be considerate of other people's time too and try the proposed solutions before arguing about them. You seem to be taking suggestions with a pinch of salt. No one has anything against you and we are trying to help. In order to resolve a problem, you have to fly the aircraft like Frank also suggested above, so that we can talk on the same basis and so that the people that are looking into this (developers or members) can try and replicate the problem. If no one can replicate your problem then it must mean that you are doing something wrong, or you are not following people's suggestions.

Please try setting up and flying the approach correctly. If it doesn't work, reinstall like I outlined before and try again. Tell us if you have any further problems after you have set up the aircraft correctly for the particular approach you are flying, as has been pointed out numerous times by different people who saw your video. Someone wrote a 124 page guide on setting up the aircraft. Still, people are using up their time trying to explain that which is in the manuals. Meanwhile, you are arguing about what was my problem in comparison to yours and are attacking me personally. The people in this thread have suggested a lot of things to you that will solve your problems. Please respect our time and effort, and read the 124 page manual thoroughly before we try to re-invent the wheel. No one is obliged to read out the manual for you and do a step by step interpretation like I did above, no matter how much you insist you have read it. I do get your problem perfectly well. It is you who doesn't get that this happens because you haven't set it up correctly, while at the same time you insist your setup is correct. When someone puts the effort into helping you, the least you can do is to read the manuals and the airport's approach procedures thoroughly and properly and try the suggested actions before going on a rampage of rudeness.

Next time, I would recommend that you had a better look at the manuals, before giving us lessons on topic relevance and before wasting people's time in endless arguments, or insulting the devs that they are not doing their job like you did in post #32. My posts are on topic and I had a very good look at the material you posted. I wasted half an hour of my life looking at your video again, only to discover that your approach setup is more flawed than I had initially thought. This my friend is an insult to our intelligence. If you take that as criticism on "flying skills" then this is your problem and not mine. I am not criticising you, I am explaining to you why you should follow the procedures properly and accurately. If you can't understand that much, there is nothing I can do. I couldn't care less about criticising you on your "flying skills". It is simply a matter of having the knowledge to operate the AP and nothing more. This knowledge you gain by reading the manuals and airport procedures, so it doesn't require any particular skill other than being literate and putting some effort into reading them.

Seeing you have set the radio altimeter instead of the baro, and even that at a wrong MDA, the aircraft won't fly properly with an incorrect setup for the approach, no matter how much you want it to or how much you insist your setup is correct. The AP is a system that manages the flight given the constraints you set (MDH for example). If those are wrong, of course it won't do what you you want it to. Finally, I wasted another hour to explain to you why you need to set up the aircraft properly and another hour in the previous post, so I expect that when you reply you will have tried out all of the suggestions by the people in the thread, including setting the approach properly. It seems to me that you have time to argue on forums, yet you can't devote your precious time to reading the manuals and approach procedures. If you still have problems, I expect to see a video with the problem, which also shows that you have set up the systems correctly and not how you thought you wanted to fly the autoland. I have no other suggestions for you at this point and I'm confident that if you follow those suggested in this thread, your problem will be resolved.

[The Dude 6537]

OK guys, let's leave it at that alright. Everybody had it's say, now get back to the topic at hand please.

I will post a video of a pattern on my system later on so we can compare the AT behaviour.

[Stathis Z. 6]

OK guys, let's leave it at that alright. Everybody had it's say, now get back to the topic at hand please.

I will post a video of a pattern on my system later on so we can compare the AT behaviour.

Yes, you are right. I'm sorry, I got pissed off by the "I do everything correctly while it's clearly not the case" attitude and I got carried away.

I have a lot of work today and will go home late, so I'll try to record something at night or tomorrow. I'll try the same approach in EDAH with correct approach settings for the runway and ILS

and also with wrong settings to see what happens in both managed and set speeds.

It would help if we had some info on the exact load settings and TOW %MAC.

Stathis

[Stathis Z. 6]

I looked into my FSX now that I came home to eat lunch and in my version which is Acceleration with all updates,

the ILS for EDAH is actually categorised as a Localizer. As a result I can't get a glideslope. It says there is a type ILS localiser/DME with the correct identifier, frequency and course,

but when I select it it shows as type Localiser not ILS like the rest ILSs

Frank what does your FSX show? Do you get an ILS in that airport?

I can't really fly that approach. I'll try to find a similar and run that one, but out of curiosity could someone show me what it shows in their FSX? Have you come across something like this before?

Could it be you used AFCAD2.21 or something similar to generate the ILS, or used an addon for the airport?

[The Dude 6537]

Let's really get back to topic here. Your input is appreciated but the topic is already very bloated as it is due to your comments.

For the problem in this topic it does not matter where you fly. I fly my patterns at EDBC for example.

[The Dude 6537]

Alright, this is my video of a pattern with the A319 CFM. What you see here is what all the beta testers are also seeing on their computers. That is one of the reasons that the issue is more or less solved for us. If you do not see this behaviour with the latest ATHR fix I posted in this thread then chances are it is you or your system. We are ofcourse still here to help and solve the problems you are having but the video shows how it should be and how it is with many a people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct-59gAbQ0A&feature=youtu.be

Some tips that work for me:

- after de-installing the software also delete any remaining files and reboot.

- do not overwrite files, delete the old and then copy in the new.

- make backups before you delete anything, like the old ATHR file for example.

[mareak29 0]

yeap same here for a month now since I buy this aerosoft airbus bundle. I can't fly it manually ( auto pilot off, auto throttle off) especially if I want to descend. Somehow the auto system will kick in and the aircraft will climb back and try to level up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Dude 6537]

yeap same here for a month now since I buy this aerosoft airbus bundle. I can't fly it manually ( auto pilot off, auto throttle off) especially if I want to descend. Somehow the auto system will kick in and the aircraft will climb back and try to level up.

Please open your own topic and do not hijack this one.

Thank you

[mareak29 0]

Please open your own topic and do not highjack this one.

Thank you

oh sorry about that. I didn't even think of hijacking your post at all. ill move on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stathis Z. 6]

So here is an approach in rwy16 of LGTS, with an A320 IAE after taking off from the same runway. CFM variant is pretty similar and I haven't used the new ATHR file.

I can't reproduce any of the problems after reinstalling the aircraft as I noted some posts before and as Frank also suggests. I have set the speed here to show an example with set speed. Normally

I let it managed and it's pretty much the same. Note that that if there are wind gusts that shoot the aircraft up or down, set speed won't work well for you and speed should be managed so it's taken into accoun

when the FMC calculates the attitude. My aircraft is also heavy for landing and still it reduces speed nicely. If it's lighter it's even easier to achieve and maintain Vapp.

The final approach starts at around 12:00.

https://youtu.be/5scB7CnLtVc

Things that should be done if you have problems and that have also helped me:

1. Uninstall the aircraft from windows add/remove and delete the aerosoft folder in the FSX directory, the aerosoft airbus folders in FSX/SimObjects and finally the aerosoft folder in My Documents. The first two should be gone after the uninstallation, but if there delete them. Then reinstall the aircraft and before restarting apply the hotfix (without loading FSX in-between). I have found that if I install the hotfix after using the SP3 aircraft it doesn't apply properly, but I don't know why this happens.
2. Make sure you are setting not only the approach, but the flight plan in general correctly. There is a variety of problems that can arise from not doing so. The problem that after flaps retraction speed remains at V2 and engines spool down is either because you haven't entered block fuel, or because the flightplan has discontinuities (or isn't entered correctly like not choosing a departure), so the FMC can't calculate speeds and green dot speeds throughout the flightplan. Also be sure to enter the BARO or RADIO references correctly, because if they are entered in the wrong field, this can cause problems if ground is elevated in comparison to the runway or the glideslope is steep.
3. After ensuring those, if you still have problems try out the ATHR file. Make sure you backup the old one, delete it and then paste the new.
4. Take note that when you are flying an approach with strong winds or wind that gusts, or turbulence, the Vapp will fluctuate and this is normal, because the aircraft is struggling to maintain the approach. If you land in a storm for example you can't expect the aircraft to maintain a constant and precise Vapp. This happens in reality too and no one will take your head if you land with +5 in Vls with bad weather or strong wind gusts, as long as you don't wreck the aircraft. From what I've seen this happens regularly in reality and the pilot compensates by floating the aircraft in flare a bit until wings are level and speed is down, or just lands if the runway isn't very long. Alternatively, if you believe conditions for landing are not met and ATC hasn't ordered you to go around already, you can declare a missed approach, go around and retake the approach.
5. The aircraft isn't supposed to fly at Vapp 10 or 15 miles from the airport. In reality this would make your entry very slow and other aircraft that are behind you in line to land may overtake you. You reduce your speed such that when you arrive at the runway it is at Vapp, or follow vectors from ATC. As long as you maintain the glideslope, either in ILS or in a visual landing, it is fine. It is good when you start your final descent to be at or below 160, especially in steep visual approaches. If you are faster you will need a higher V/S to make the slope, which makes reducing speed to Vapp all the more difficult.

[Ilya1998 92]

Stathis.. I really don't understand you... You said that you agree with Frank but still keep pointing me at my "mistakes" and changing the subject of the topic. I know everything you're telling me. And yes: Even that during turbulence the speed will not be exactly the Vapp - Thank you for that. And even how to properly set the MCDU. I can also point you that "no one in real world lands with just single AP2 and CAT2 on the FMA" and write an hour-long story about it, but no thanks.

The fact that I flew so long with the Vapp is to show you that the aircraft is capable of catching the ILS and flying the Vapp for a long time, but then on final it stops & the engines start doing something crazy. But I'm sure that if I decelerated like in the real world you would attack me with "airbus is not capable of decelerating so fast you idiot you must fly with the Vapp at least 10 miles" and tell a story about it.

I know that it's not how it's done in real world. Is it something that now must change the normal behaviour of the aircraft? No.

But I must say: some of the information you use as a fact seems for me like you just invented it yourself.

Could you please tell me the source about the DH? I know that it's just a dummy that will change when the GWPS call minimums (and 100 above) for pilots to know that beneath that altitude if losing visuals with the runway they must go around. It does not affect any flight-characteristics of the aircraft. I don't understand what did you make sure it does, to use it several times in your posts

Thank you Frank and Stathis for the videos and your time making them. It's very useful for me to see how the ATHR works on other systems since the SP3.

So Frank, you are telling that it's the fault of my computer? What can I do know? Reinstall it? Cuz there were more people with this problem who said this is not a kind of bug where reinstall helps. I'll try to do it on the way Stathis described, hope it helps.

And Stathis, I must say that the strange ATHR is not completely solved on your system. For example when decelerating to the S-speed the N1 kept going up preventing to slow down (of course not as extreme as in my case, but still)

Again thank you all.

[Stathis Z. 6]

Stathis.. I really don't understand you... You said that you agree with Frank but still keep pointing me at my "mistakes" and changing the subject of the topic. I know everything you're telling me. And yes: Even that during turbulence the speed will not be exactly the Vapp - Thank you for that. And even how to properly set the MCDU. I can also point you that "no one in real world lands with just AP2 and CAT2 on the FMA" and write an hour-long story about it, but no thanks.

The fact that I flew so long with the Vapp is to show you that the aircraft is capable of catching the ILS and flying the Vapp for a long time, but then on final it stops & the engines start doing something crazy. But I'm sure that if I decelerated like in the real world you would attack me with "airbus is not capable of decelerating so fast you idiot you must fly with the Vapp at least 10 miles" and tell a story about it.

I know that it's not how it's done in real world. Is it something that now must change the normal behaviour of the aircraft? No.

But I must say: some of the information you use as a fact seems for me like you just invented it yourself.

Could you please tell me the source about the DH? I know that it's just a dummy that will change when the GWPS call minimums (and 100 above) for pilots to know that beneath that altitude if losing visuals with the runway they must go around. It does not affect any flight-characteristics of the aircraft.

Thank you Frank and Stathis for the videos and your time making them. It's very useful for me to see how the ATHR works on other systems since the SP3.

So Frank, you are telling that it's the fault of my computer? What can I do know? Reinstall it? Cause there were more people with this problem who said this is not a kind of bug where reinstall helps. I'll try to do it on the way Stathis described, hope it helps.

And Stathis, I must say that the strange ATHR is not completely solved on your system. For example when decelerating to the S-speed the N1 kept going up preventing to slow down (of course not as extreme as in my case, but still)

Again thank you all.

I don't believe arming the 2nd autopilot changes anything. It's just a redundancy feature and I know there aren't going to be any failures in this flight. The ILS in LGTS is CAT1 in FSX (the airport normally has CAT1 and CAT2 glideslopes). Even so, arming the 2nd autopilot has nothing to do with the ability to follow the approach. Please, don't make me shoot a 2nd video to show you it's the same. Yes, the N1 is still a bit erratic definitely not that much as in your case and if you get flaps down at the green dots it's ok. The decision height normally is used in a variety of functions. For example in CAT1 and 2 ILS, the autopilot disengages automatically at the DH-set value, because you are not supposed to autoland with CAT1 and CAT2, but only with CAT3. Whether FSX actually provides CAT info to the plane and whether these functions are implemented in the model is beyond my knowledge.

My point about Vapp is that if you are at Vapp, when the aircraft starts descending on final, it is bound to go up. Then it will correct when the slope becomes shallower. Not maintaining Vapp through the whole slope is ok there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you land with Vls. My last reply is not personalised to you or pointing out at any mistakes at all. I simply mention some points which helped me resolve my problems. Why do you need to take it personally? You're not the only person in the thread.

The discussion on possible causes has dragged long enough, we've pissed everyone off and I don't want to continue it.

In any case, I'm not trying to dictate you what to do or what not to do and it's not my place to do so. For all I know, this may be specific to A319 which I don't have. I had the same behaviour though in the 320 and I told you how I solved it. Many other people have solved various issues by reinstalling the aircraft and the hotfix. But it's been some days now and we keep going around in circles adding nothing to the thread and we are both to blame for this.

However, you reply again and you haven't even tried reinstalling the aircraft, something you need to devote 5 minutes at most to do. Is there any reason for not having done that yet, after Frank told you to try it and after I told you that it helped me? Just try it, it's simple. Reinstall like I said above, if you have problems (after setting up the aircraft fully), only then try the ATHR fix. How do you expect me to take you seriously if we keep discussing about reinstalling the aircraft for 4 days? There is nothing to discuss really if you don't do that as well. If you don't take the basic steps into troubleshooting your problem, no one will be able to help you knowing there may be 20 reasons why that happens and there is nothing more to discuss about what would happen theoretically. Frank can't know if reinstalling would help you and no one can guarantee if it will work out for you unless you reinstall it and show us. Again please try reinstalling and setting up the approach and the fmc correctly, with block fuel and departure/arrival, so it calculates green dot speeds for takeoff and landing.

We won't know if it's a system specific issue, unless you try reinstalling the airplane and setting up its systems fully and correctly. There is no criticism when I say you have to setup the systems correctly and I don't mean that I am correct and you are wrong. But unless you follow the manual's procedures for setting up a flight, there is no reference point to eliminate causes. If you don't do that, no one will be able to help you and personally I'm not willing to spend more time trying to reproduce it, knowing you haven't set up the FMC fully and per the manual.

I'm sorry if I offended you before, but the fact that you are asking for help, but keep commenting on suggested solutions without even trying them is beyond me. If you have further issues after doing that, everyone including me is open to discuss them, try to reproduce them and help you resolve them, but please do the basics.