AUTOLAND and TAKEOFF problems

[schmiko 17]

1.) A Takeoff with the Airbus X and maximum weight is a very dangerous thing . The "Bus" is very slow and need many many meters for TAKEOFF. For Vr i need nearly 2.500 m, which is very dangerous at EDDN with a 2.694 m runway. Is that normal for that data:

Airport EDDN

Runway 28

Passengers: 161

Fuel load: 19108 kg

TakeOff weight: 83026 kg (88%)

Airtemperature 25° C

Alimeter 1.000 ft

2.) I tried some ILS Landungen with CAIII AUTOLAND at EDDN and also at LTAI. But every AUTOLAND is very very uncomfortable (and damaged my Aircraft with the FS Passengers AddOn ). The touchdowns are to fast and the Airbus touches the runway first with the right weehls and not in the right direction, it looks slightly to the left. I tried every ILS approach with a unusual long distance for right capturing the ILS glideslope and the Airbus fly absolutely stable (vertical and lateral) on the ILS glideslope.

EDDN RWY 28, ILS INUW, 109,10

ILS Landing CATIII AUTOLAND

MCDU VAPP data for APProach: 147 kt

Real Landing Speed: 147-149 kt

Landing Touchdown: -538,00 up to -583.08 ft/m

Landing Pitch: 3.65°

Landing Weight: 72686 kg

Regard Jörg

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

We're looking at the engines, we know there is an issue there.

On landing we know it is rather sensitive to how heavy you are and at 72 tons you are really pushing things, lol.

[schmiko 17]

Next try

EDDF

Airtemperature 25° C

Alimeter 358 ft

Runway 25L

ILS Landing CATIII DUAL AUTOLAND

ILS IFSW the RAD/NAV Page shows 111.15 but the right frequency is 110.70?!?

MCDU VAPP data for APProach: 143 kt

Real Landing Speed: 140,90 kt

Landing Touchdown: -540,77 ft/m

Landing Pitch: 4.14°

Landing Weight: 67.855 kg

Passengers: 177

Similar problem but this time it touched the runway with the left wheels first and the aircraft was slightly directed to the right (In FS Passengers again blowOut of the wheels, this time the left, penalty points and damage on the aircraft). It looks like strong wind from the right with a correction of the pilot, but there was "no weather". i think it is a problem with the ILS bus only for the last 20-30 ft altitude before touch down.

Regards Joerg

[conchulio 20]

Concerning the take-off problem:

Have you look up the N1 percentage during take-off? i have seen that when entering a FLX temp. accorind to the take-off sheet provided by the airbux Manager the N1 percentage firstly rise to the aimed percentage FLX limit, then it slowly decreses to something between 70-80%. i often had to push to TOGA to actually rotate.

Maybe that's a point you might look up when doing another take-off, have a look at the engine parameters.

[schmiko 17]

I have tried the CAT3/Dual approach to RWY 25l at EDDF 7 times now.

3 times it was a disaster: at the moment of the call "Retard Retard" the Airbus changed its direction to the right I think for 20 or more degrees, no chance for the pilot

3 times it was not good: at the moment of the call "Retard Retard" the Airbus changed its direction to the right I think for 5 or more degrees, heavy but with luck no accident lol

only one approach was a perfect success without a problem, very smooth and absolutely the right direction!

Regards Joerg

[Shaun Fletcher 570]

Hello Joerg,

One customer who practised the flight by the book managed a perfect auto land so it is possible.

[tup61 185]

Hello Joerg,

One customer who practised the flight by the book managed a perfect auto land so it is possible.

Don't know if that customer was me, but I finished me second flight, also with a great autoland. Vs was 500, a bit rough, but no one got harmed. So that's two great autolands in a row, on two different airports btw.

[Finn 873]

Important thing to remember is to set the CRS for the ILS RWY on the RAD/NAV page !!

Autoland uses this for bringing the Aurbus back on runway heading shortly before touchdown during crosswind landings.

Even without any winds, this is important.

Finn

[tup61 185]

Important thing to remember is to set the CRS for the ILS RWY on the RAD/NAV page !!

Autoland uses this for bringing the Aurbus back on runway heading shortly before touchdown during crosswind landings.

Even without any winds, this is important.

Finn

Yes, I did that! I don't know why I did it, but I noticed there was room for a course entry and so I decided to enter it. Something I've never done before, actually... Apparently I did the right thing by luck and hence the great autolands.

EDIT:

BTW The tutorial only mentions to enter the ILS frequency (step 129, but it is only explained in the text below it, not in the procedure- and checklist itself: shouldn't it be in that list too?). Maybe entering the CRS should be added to the tutorial? (And both the FREQ and CRS to the procedure- and checklist?)

And BTW 2: the explanation of 129 tells you to press the LOC button, which also isn't in the procedure- and checklist list... I did my autolanding today without touching that LOC knob... Is it needed at all?

[schmiko 17]

....The tutorial only mentions to enter the ILS frequency (step 129, but it is only explained in the text below it, not in the procedure- and checklist itself: shouldn't it be in that list too?). Maybe entering the CRS should be added to the tutorial? (And both the FREQ and CRS to the procedure- and checklist?)...

Ok I will check that, it could be, because I didn't used that CRS field, because normally a MCDU takes that infomation from the database automatical together with the frequence.

It would be an explanation for the different changes of the direction after touchdown.

....the explanation of 129 tells you to press the LOC button, which also isn't in the procedure- and checklist list... I did my autolanding today without touching that LOC knob... Is it needed at all?

The LOC button plus AP1 is for the lateral glideslope to the runway, the APPR button plus AP2 is for the vertical glideslope. Normally you use first the LOC button, if the Airbus is stable on its way to the runway you activate the APPR button+AP2 for automatic reducing the altitude. This is necessary for an AUTOLAND CAT3/DUAL.

Regards Joerg

[tup61 185]

The LOC button plus AP1 is for the lateral glideslope to the runway, the APPR button plus AP2 is for the vertical glideslope. Normally you use first the LOC button, if the Airbus is stable on its way to the runway you activate the APPR button+AP2 for automatic reducing the altitude. This is necessary for an AUTOLAND CAT3/DUAL.

Yes, I knew that from the big planes I used to fly, but LOC wasn't in the checklist I used (the one from the tutorial), so I missed it, but I still did a perfect autoland without using LOC... When I press APPR both LOC and G/S are activated. I seem to remember this was also true for other planes... somehow LOC isn't mandatory...? Maybe it's better (and I will use it from now on) but not really necessary...

[cbd80 258]

Yes, I knew that from the big planes I used to fly, but LOC wasn't in the checklist I used (the one from the tutorial), so I missed it, but I still did a perfect autoland without using LOC... When I press APPR both LOC and G/S are activated. I seem to remember this was also true for other planes... somehow LOC isn't mandatory...? Maybe it's better (and I will use it from now on) but not really necessary...

From what Finn told me in testing it is only really necessary to use APPR for full autoland. This controls both localiser and g/s inputs (you will note that LOC disengages when APPR is pressed). AP2 is required to control g/s once captured.

LOC is there to service airfields that only have a localiser and no glideslope facility.

Hope that helps

Chris

[schmiko 17]

So I have tried the CAT3/DUAL landing at EDDF for the 8. time, but im so sad, it was the same as before.

I used the CRS field, in case of my ILS approach IFSW it was 258 degrees, also the heading was armed with 258 degrees (normal precedure for a Go Arround).

Landing Speed: 137.91 kt

Landing Touchdown: -436.15 ft/m

Landing Pitch: 5.61°

Landing Weight: 69485 kg

The problem was here as before: the Airbus changed the direction for 10 or more degrees to the right very short before touchdown and touched down first with the leftwheels so I have again a blowout. After touchdown the Airbus leaves the runway after a couple of meters. I have tested that for that airport/runway 8 times with 7 negative results. I have also tested it with a active flightplan and without, and with FS Passengers and without.

Could it be a problem especially with some ILS approaches?

I used IFSW, normally the right frequence for that would be 110.70, but the RAD/NAV Page shows me an empty first field and the wrong frequence [],[111.15].

As the Airbus didn't recognized that, I used FlightSim Commander which send the right frequence 110.70 to the Airbus and immediately the PFD shows me the right Name IFSW and frequence 110.70 and the LOC works. The same problem was at EDDN runway 28.

Next step for me is testing exactly that airport/runway of your tutorial. hope this works :-)

Regards Joerg

[conchulio 20]

So I have tried the CAT3/DUAL landing at EDDF for the 8. time, but im so sad, it was the same as before.

I used the CRS field, in case of my ILS approach IFSW it was 258 degrees, also the heading was armed with 258 degrees (normal precedure for a Go Arround).

Landing Speed: 137.91 kt

Landing Touchdown: -436.15 ft/m

Landing Pitch: 5.61°

Landing Weight: 69485 kg

The problem was here as before: the Airbus changed the direction for 10 or more degrees to the right very short before touchdown and touched down first with the leftwheels so I have again a blowout. After touchdown the Airbus leaves the runway after a couple of meters. I have tested that for that airport/runway 8 times with 7 negative results. I have also tested it with a active flightplan and without, and with FS Passengers and without.

Could it be a problem especially with some ILS approaches?

I used IFSW, normally the right frequence for that would be 110.70, but the RAD/NAV Page shows me an empty first field and the wrong frequence [],[111.15].

As the Airbus didn't recognized that, I used FlightSim Commander which send the right frequence 110.70 to the Airbus and immediately the PFD shows me the right Name IFSW and frequence 110.70 and the LOC works. The same problem was at EDDN runway 28.

Next step for me is testing axaktly taht airport/runway of your tutorial. hope this works :-)

Regards Joerg

Just a short note, course of RWY 25 L/R is 249, not 258.

[tup61 185]

From what Finn told me in testing it is only really necessary to use APPR for full autoland. This controls both localiser and g/s inputs (you will note that LOC disengages when APPR is pressed). AP2 is required to control g/s once captured.

LOC is there to service airfields that only have a localiser and no glideslope facility.

Hope that helps

Chris

Thanks for the explanation and for confirming what I noticed during my flights.

[schmiko 17]

Just a short note, course of RWY 25 L/R is 249, not 258.

I think I have tested to much today - have I used 258 or 249 , oh dam..ed I have to try again I fear

Regards Joerg

[schmiko 17]

Next turn, this time with the right CRS at MCDU page RAD/NAV and a very low ZFW: the result was really it works .

I was so happy and so I tried again with the same low ZFW of 50.50 tons, but with wrong CRS and really the Airbus goes to the right as before. So it seems clear for me, the right CRS is very important for that AddOn.

So I have a few points for a yet better Airbus X

1.) Using the "right" fields ILS/FREQ for entering the ILS data (I thinks thats allready on your issue list)

2.) Using CRS automatical from the Navigraph database, displayed with small font (normally it is NOT changable, but if it would be changeable, displayed with a bigger font)

3.) please proof the search for ILS names, the Airbus won't found the ILS at EDDF RWY 25L with IFSW but it found it with the frequence 110.70 and then it displays IFSW

Next testing with full ZFW, because I have to transport as many passengers and cargo as possible for earning money with FS Passengers

Regards Joerg

[schmiko 17]

EDDF changed the ILS frequency for RWY25L some time ago in reality, it was 110.70 and now changed to 111.15....

Hello Ralf,

thanks for the help, I am using the Mega Airport Scenery and so I hope I will find an update at the Aerosoft support pages.

But how long in the past was that change, my FlightSim Commander with cycle 1007 shows me 110.70 for RW25L, also the Airbus X shows me the right name IFSW after I am using the frequency 110.70 instead of the ILS name at page RAD/NAV of the MCDU.

Do you know how I could see the actual state of the cycle which Airbus X used?

Regards Joerg

[Andy B. 40]

FSCommander gets it data from the AFCADS for things like frequencies, not from Navigraph updates, you need to update the database with the database manager that comes with FSCommander. Its a separate program that comes with FSC, you dont update from within FSC itself.

[schmiko 17]

Oh, of course you are right , I have done that in FSC last week for my new Mega Airport Honolulu

Regards Jörg

[caseystef 2]

autoland , lol

http://youtu.be/co9Vjhj9dj0

well now on the v1.22 is a bit better it lands at -500 feet but why, can i find a xml file where i can change the input when the plane has to start the flare. or land between -1 and -100 feet per minute.

[caseystef 2]

poeple , i believ i have it, i have the autoland workin and it lands between -10 and - 200 feet per minute , depends on weight and glideslope path in degrees and speed and weather .

tomorow i will do more tests but it looks good. i had the flare workin but flightsim had a fatal error on closing , maybe becose my code entry was not right.

so i tryd a other option ,now it flares and then it holds attitude , with that i had no fatal error on closing my sim. will see tomorow , im getting close.