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MrCaptED

Beginner that 'Lost His Way" part 1

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Hi to all that view this thread....

First I am a Beginner in "Soaring" in any form (Real or Virtual).. I am not a Kid... I am 65 years old...

I am adding it to the "General Chit-Chat" Group... I see it as General Basic Questions.

If you have followed my other Thread about a Beginner... it had 196 views ( someone is looking )...

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Now to the Topic of "Beginner that Lost His Way" and yes I am expecting there will be other parts...

I have been reading all kinds of info based around a Beginner but not fully explaining what is going on...

that is what has caused me to "Lose My Way"

====================================================

Now when I search for info on Soaring, I find the VirtualSoaring Website and this Forum and the one from the UKVGA (United Kingdom Virtual Glider Association)

-------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for those that opened this forum to read without belonging ... the UKVGA does not I might add... You must join ...

I can image they are wondering what a "Arky" (Person from Arkansas, USA) is wanting on the forum for..

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Now I was thinking that I would start a Group of Questions.. that are geared towards the Beginner...

Keep in mind everyone is a Beginner at some time or another...

I am not thinking that You as a responder will answer all questions... any input you add will be viewed by Beginners...

1.) I guess the first question right out of the box is Soaring in FS2004 or FSX..??

What are your Pro's and Con's on either of these two Sim's...

How easy do you view the install and tweaking and getting things to work....

Thinks like CumulusX, WinchX, CCS2004, Slope Tool <for CCS2004)

Not Really any point in bringing up "Condor Soaring" or "Silent Wings"

2.) Second Question should be what OS you use and any info concerning that you wish to share.??

While I am not thinking you are going to change OS's just to fly.... I am just wondering if you are happy with

your setup.... and Yes there is always a cost consideration....

3.) What Glider do you Like ?? what version of Sim. is it for ..?? how about a link to it...

Next do you have a "LNAV_polar.dat" specific to that Glider...?? are you willing to share..??

Do you always fly the same Glider... ??

4.) Some Gliders Carry Water ... Why?? When do you not carry water or adjust the water level...

5.) I personally have not changed anything in either FS9.cfg or FSX.cfg ....

any thing make yours a better sim...?? Are you willing to post the changes in the cfg's.. explaining as you go...

6.) What kind of Scenery have you added...?? Is it Free .... how about a link...

==================================================================

When this thread gets down around 25 Post I will create a Part 2 of this....

Thanks to all those that Read or Post...

Ed

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A.1) I have both FS-9 & FSX installed... I am going to have to chose one over the other...

FS-9 has higher Frame Rate .... FSX is in the 60's FPS

But Frame Rates are not everthing...

A.2) I am using Windows 7 64 bit.... Notes if you have the same OS...install either FS9 or FSX outside of the default

folder (ie) "Program Files (X86)"

Reason is simple FS-9 was release in 2004 and FSX in 2006 and the concept of UAC was unheard of....

A.3) I personally Like the "ASW28" from UKVGA...FSX glider...I do not have a LNAV-polar.dat

http://www.ukvga.org.uk/aircraft.php

I also enjoy the "Genesis-2" for FSX.... I had it given to me so I do not have a link to it...

there is 2 parts to fix it correctly... It does have the Docs on the Polar (Not sure how to use the info yet..)

I have FSX with CumulusX and WinchX installed and they both trigger...meaning they show up at the bottom of the screen

WinchX seems to work just fine... CumulusX I have no idea account I do not know what to do with it...

both the boxes Thermal and Slope are Green and Checked... and I unchecked the Scripted box..

I have read the instructions and mostly not understood by a Beginner...<<ME>>

I also have FS-9 with CCS-2004 installed... I have been just Slewing to get my alt.

I have no idea if CCS-2004 works or not... I am getting the message in FS-9 that it is Linked...

=========================================================

I am flying Both Simulators... but because of the confusion I am going to need to chose one over the other...

Later

Ed

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4.) Yes, some gliders have water tanks to increase their mass, sometimes even by 250 kg. I'll try to explain it.

A glider does not have an engine but it is still able to generate speed. Since the energy to make speed is not retrieved from an engine, it must have another source. This source is called gravitational potential energy. The formula for this is:

PEgravitational = mass * gravity (= 9,81 m/s2 on earth) * height

Imagine you drop a car and an egg from 10 m height on a human. Both will hit the human at the same speed but only the car will kill the human because it has a much greater gravitational potential energy because of its much greater mass. So increasing the mass will result in more gravitational potential energy of the glider.

In practice this means that for example a Ventus 2 sinks with 2,4 m/s when flying at 200 km/h while loaded with water it only sinks with 1,6 m/s flying at 200 km/h. This is a great benefit if you want to cover high distances in shorter time. Or in competitions for example.

The only drawback is that thermals don't get you up as quick as normal. So water tanks are only used in very good weather. You don't carry water in not so good conditions.

I can't answer your other questions because I think gliding in FSX is just too unrealistic. Use condor :P I am also a real life glider pilot.

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I'll try to come back to this thread later, but to answer just one of your questions...

As far as Q1 and frame rates, I'd be happy with just 1/2 your frames in FSX. I don't have my settings all the way maxed out, but I have tweaked the .cfg as best I thought/understood how and only get from 7-18FPS average I think (I'm used to that range, actually a lot less, I remember in FS4 or FS5 I was only getting maybe 2-7FPS and I think that was in wired view). Graphics Cards are a real blessing when it comes to stock computers I found out later. I will try to find the link that I had to an updated and more thorough guide to the .cfg tweaking.

Scott

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Thanks "Scott" for your replies...

Scott... are you saying after tweaking you are getting the 7-18 fps, what was it before you started tweaking..??

You did not say if you liked FSX the best or FS-9...??? or do you not have FS-9..

Now personally I have the FS-9 FrameRates slider set to equal the monitor refresher rate...(ie) 59 fps

but in FSX I have the slider in Unlimited...

Keep in mind folks, I read this as proper settings.... It may not be correct...

Ed

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Hello "Awesome" Thanks for your reply....

We appreciate you input on when to use "Water Ballast" and more importantly when 'NOT' to...

Now you comments about "Good Weather" and "Not So Good Weather".. I assume you are talking Thermal Soaring ...

Now I know you fly "Condor", and I assume you adjust the Weather in it much the same as FS-9/FSX

What I mean is... I can adjust Cloud Types, Bottom/Top of a Cloud, amount of Coverage of Clouds, Wind and Direction, Temp & Dew Point in FS-9/FSX

I use CumulusX in FSX for Thermals and Slope Soaring.. If I can figure out the little parts....

Now if all is Correct... Share with all us Beginners...

How about telling Us all what is considered "Good Weather" ....

Also you being a Glider Pilot ... Any Books you would recommend as easy reading for the Beginner....

====================================================================

Everybody.... If you have any input on the above subjects... Books..Thermal Setup of CumulusX or CCS2004.. or Weather

setup in either FS-9/FSX Please feel free to comment....

Thanks

Ed

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Hi MrCaptED

That's a good question. It's not always clear on first sight if weather is good for soaring or not. It also depends on how you want to fly. If you are for example wanting to use ridge lift, you only need the right winds. To give you a clear answer: most glider pilots I know consider this the best weather for soaring:

- High cloud base, here in Germany 3000 meter would be very very nice. The reason for this is that mostly you can fly in thermals until you reach the cloud base. Theoretically you could continue until the top of the cloud, because the thermal stops there, but that is dangerous and forbidden (there are exceptions). So the higher the cloud base, the higher you can go.

- Small cumulus clouds. Small and still in the process of forming cumulus clouds are an indication of good thermals.

- Not so much winds. Strong winds often come with turbulence and make the thermals deformed and not so nice to fly in.

- No high altitude clouds because they block the sun.

- Warm air at ground level, cold air at altitude.

A bit like in this picture: http://commondatasto...nal/8014939.jpg

But in my personal opinion any weather in which you are likely to find a good thermal and make a nice flight is good weather.

I doubt you speak German so unfortunately I can't recommend any books.

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Thanks for the Reply "Awesome"

We beginners appreciate any input you are willing to share....

And Yes you are correct I do not speak 'German'... <Books>

But as you see there is currently 70 views on just this thread ....

So list a few books even in German that you like...

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First Question is where is the Picture taken.??

I assume this is your Glider Club... appears to be 2 Tow Planes... One towing a glider beyond the Runway up about

1000 feet... and the other hooked to a Glider waiting to take off...

What Altitude does the tow plane take the glider up too...

and also if you know, what kind of Altitude on a Winch Tow...

=====================================================================

On the Subject of Ridge Lift.... what kind of Wind speed.?? I read something between 16-24 knots...

Just wondering if that is correct??

Now to the subject of Thermal Soaring.... High cloud base at 3000 meter... Is this the top or bottom of the clouds.??

and when you say Small Cumulus Clouds... I assume you are talking between the bottom and top of the Clouds...

On your comments about Warm air at the Ground and Cold air at Altitude....

Give us some kind of Idea of those temps...

Thanks

Ed

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Attention all Beginners.....

Not sure if you have Google Earth installed.. You need it ... and here is why....

I have found a file (.KML) that has all of FSX Airport's, VOR's & NDB's..

This is "Free" ..Get it here..

http://www.flightsimworld.com/downloads/viewfile/1726.html

The 'ReadMe' tells how to get it working in Google Earth (it is simple)

The first picture is showing you the Airports only in South Island, New Zealand this is only

an example .... When you click on each of the airport disk ... giving you the Runways & Alt.

Radio Freq. control tower etc , Long/Lat.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/a2OYUQN38bzK5tTU9m5EwA?feat=directlink

Second Picture shows how I turned the display on... Notice...Pacific, Airports, New Zealand

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7FDArgJdUSe_tzuSRHRwCg?feat=directlink

===============================================

We will need this to figure out the direction the winds need to blow on a Ridge .... "Ridge Lift"

Alot of Exploring ahead of Us....

Ed

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Hello to all the Beginners...

I am going to Start leaning towards FSX... CumulusX and WinchX

What I am going to tell about will also apply to FS-9..

Not sure if all have FSUIPC for either version... it is Cheap and Works Great...

I am talking about controller setup as far as Gliders ....

I personally have removed all the JetLiners & other things from both Sim's..I am not a Jet Jockey...

I have left Cessna, Maule and added the Republic SeaBee..

This is besides the Gliders....

OK I have a CH Products Yoke... and a Logitech Extreme 3d Pro Joystick...

Now the Yoke has the Flaps and Speed Brake on the Axes... and Aero Tow on buttons...

I do not use Rudder Pedals instead I use the 3d pro twist action for rudder control...

and also setup brakes to the joystick also ....

Now I do fly AutoRudder (Set in Realism setup) when soaring then press a button to unconnect and use twist grip to control rudder

on landing ... you know when you are a little two high and need to side slip...

FSX only has the ability to assign a button to unlink the AutoRudder... If someone knows different Post it...

==========================================================

Now the first thing you notice is I have the Throttle, Mixture, Prop Pitch axes used as something else...

Now here is where the FSUIPC shines (only one of many ways)

You can setup "FSUIPC" to control the axes on the Yoke .... specific to a Plane/Glider....

In other words the 3 axes on the Yoke .. When in a Cessna (Prop Plane) can control the Throttle, Mixture, Prop Pitch..

but when you change to a Glider the same axes control things like the flaps/Spoiler etc...

Now You have guessed he sure has alot of buttons on both the Yoke and the Joystick....

How many things in a Glider are controlled only by mouse... "Water Ballast", CAISET gauges all controlled by mouse...

OK Gang... Lets talk about "MouseTrapping"... better yet I am going to let 'Nigel' tell you about it..7 minute video...

=============================================

One other note: FSUIPC can be mixed with the FSX controller settings ... but before you can assign a Axes or Button in FSUIPC

you must turn it off in FSX...

There is a good tutorial on setting it up for a beginner... and the Author is online all the time and helps alot if you are clear on

your questioning...

I told you there would be more to learn...hehehe

Later

Ed

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That's not my gliding club. Just a picture I found on Google.

What Altitude does the tow plane take the glider up too...

and also if you know, what kind of Altitude on a Winch Tow...

About the tow plane: depending on the situation mostly something like 500-1500 meter OGL as far as I know. For acrobatic flight you want to be higher than for example just a training start. But tow plane launch is very expensive. 20 euros for a tow to 500 meters at my club.

Winch launching: the altitude depends on many things:

- Wind speed and direction (strong headwind will get you the highest)

- Material of the cable (steel or plastic, plastic is better because it is much lighter)

- Power of the winch

- Mass of the plane (obviously in a 300 kg glider including pilot you are likely to get higher than in a 600 kg glider)

- Length of the field (mostly around 1000 meters long but longer is better)

Sometimes you get only 300 meters. I think 400-500 meters is normal. But I've also heard of VERY RARE occasions when someone got to 1000 meters and higher.

On the Subject of Ridge Lift.... what kind of Wind speed.?? I read something between 16-24 knots...

Just wondering if that is correct??

To be honest I don't know. But 16-24 knots sounds very reasonable.

Now to the subject of Thermal Soaring.... High cloud base at 3000 meter... Is this the top or bottom of the clouds.??

and when you say Small Cumulus Clouds... I assume you are talking between the bottom and top of the Clouds...

Cloud base is the bottom of the clouds. With small clouds I just mean small in all dimensions.

On your comments about Warm air at the Ground and Cold air at Altitude....

Give us some kind of Idea of those temps...

I don't know about exact temps but it's like in spring, when the sun can be already very strong while the air is still a bit cold.

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Thank You, Thank You 'Awesome'...

You have no idea how much this info means...

I have been winching to 2000 ft (610 meters) and full of Water...

Too High, Too Heavy....

My Aero Tows are about right... anywhere from 3000ft-5000ft. (915m-1525m)

The price of the tow.. 20 Euro=$25.00 USD... that is expensive...

So I would say Weather conditions have to be Good be for you spend the money sort of speaking...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

When being towed by a Airplane where is the glider suppose to be ...

(ie) above to tow plane, below the tow plane... or directly behind it...

Reason I ask is in FSX when I am being towed up I am full of Water and Heavy and I have been keeping it

just a little above the Tow Plane.. just able to see the plane out the bottom of the canopy...

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Some general questions Please....

You belong to a Glider Club... so how many people in your club???

Do you own your own Glider.? or the Club owns them all and you take turns Soaring..

What kind of a glider do you fly..?. (Make/Model)

How far away from the Glider Field are you .?

How often do you get a chance to Soar..?? Once a week, Once a month..

When the Weather is Good for Thermal Soaring/Ridge Soaring... what kind of time aloft does a average flight last..?

1 hour, 2 hours, or do you have a time limit so others can use the plane the same day..

Again Thanks for the Feedback ...

Now to go and experiment with FSX...

Ed

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Hi Ed, I am always happy to talk to people interested in soaring :)

Reason I ask is in FSX when I am being towed up I am full of Water and Heavy and I have been keeping it

just a little above the Tow Plane.. just able to see the plane out the bottom of the canopy...

Straight behind or just a little above is fine. If you get to low you get in the turbulence caused by the propeller of the towing plane, also called "propwash" I believe. But I don't think that FSX simulates that.

You belong to a Glider Club... so how many people in your club???

About 90 people are in my club.

Do you own your own Glider.? or the Club owns them all and you take turns Soaring..

I am still a soaring student but soon to have my GPL (hopefully :P). I am 19 years old so I can't afford my own plane yet. The club owns planes but many people have their private plane too. If I ever get 30k euros I'll invest it in a glider :)

What kind of a glider do you fly..?. (Make/Model)

I currently fly a Schleicher ASK 23

How far away from the Glider Field are you .?

About 20 km

How often do you get a chance to Soar..?? Once a week, Once a month..

We fly two days a week, Saturday and Sunday if the weather allows it. Also we have three camps of one week per year where we fly the whole week at another airport. We don't fly from November until March. These months are used for theory lessons and maintenance of the aircraft and other things.

When the Weather is Good for Thermal Soaring/Ridge Soaring... what kind of time aloft does a average flight last..? 1 hour, 2 hours, or do you have a time limit so others can use the plane the same day..

There are no mountains here so only thermal soaring. My experience is that once you manage to get up high you can stay there as long as you want. But I fly club planes so mostly I am limited to one hour because other people want to fly too. Also you occasionally have to visit a toilet haha

I don't know about soaring in the USA, but if there is any gliding club near you I would totally recommend to visit them and become a member if you like it. ANYONE can learn it and do it and it is totally not expensive. Seriously, soaring is the most fun thing I have ever done. You have total freedom in the three dimensional room without worries about fuel noise etc.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have

Cheers!

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Thanks for the Info...

On the subject of a Glider Club... I am in Bryant, Arkansas ... about 10 miles south of Little Rock, Arkansas...

The closest Glider Club is about 140 miles..(225 km) to far to travel...

=========================================================================

How soon before you get your Glider Pilot's Licence..?? I assume Flying Hours...

I know in the USA 40 hours for a private pilot's Licence ... in something like a Cessna 150...

=========================================================================

I know your using "Condor Soaring" Sim..

I am wondering does the Sim improve you real flying...?? and does real flying improve your Sim-ming ??

and I might add the comment about using bathroom break also applies to Flt.Sim.

======================================================================

Working on FSX setup based on your replies ... this might take longer than I think ... I will be asking

alot more questions....

Thanks Alot

Ed

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How soon before you get your Glider Pilot's Licence..?? I assume Flying Hours...

I know in the USA 40 hours for a private pilot's Licence ... in something like a Cessna 150...

GPL (Glider Pilot License) requirements:

- You need to pass theory exams

- Uninterrupted series of 5 approved target landings in at least two different days

- Flight experience of at least 40 solo flights, at least 6 hours flight time and older than 16 years

- Passed for practical exams

You might think this isn't much, well, it isn't. But this is the absolute minimum. Mostly it takes at least 1 or 2 years in active participation at the club before you get your GPL. Being in a gliding club is very different from piston aircraft flying. You can't go to the airfield, fly, and then go home. Most of the day you spend on the ground helping, talking and waiting :P I am very happy if I can make 4 flights on a day. Unless you own a glider yourself, gliding has a very low efficiency, speaking in terms of time spent on the ground and in the air. But in the end the wait is totally worth it.

I know your using "Condor Soaring" Sim..

I am wondering does the Sim improve you real flying...?? and does real flying improve your Sim-ming ??

I started simming before gliding. When I started gliding my instructors said that I "could already fly" :P that was nice to hear.

So yes it makes quite a difference but only until a certain level. I knew the very basics like the controls but I could by no means takeoff or land. I knew for example that you had to pull the stick a bit when you are in a turn. Things like that. People who are totally new to flying don't know that. But if you get more advanced in (real) flying the sim doesn't make that big of a difference anymore because the real thing has so much more details that totally don't matter in the sim. For example in turns you always look in the direction you want to turn to make sure that there isn't anyone else flying. And when you land the landing field can be full of other gliders who just landed and then you'll have to improvise. You don't have those problems in the sim.

But you can use the sim for training things you already learned in real life. In my opinion in the beginning simming improves the real flying, and later when you get more advanced the real flying improves the simming. Of course this only applies to glding, I don't know about normal piston aircraft.

One thing that is very prominent in gliding is the use of the rudder (the pedals). When making turns you always need to apply your rudder quite a bit. This is also the reason that most glider aircraft have a small wire attached to the canopy. By watching this wire the pilot can see if he is flying "clean" turns. The wire should always be in the middle because then you are flying with the least air resistance. It requires some training to always get that right. It is one of the cheapest but most important instruments. Take a look at this picture: http://www.alfred-ob...s/fliegen-7.jpg I mean the red wire you see there.

I don't know the reason for the prominent rudder use but it is probably due to the design of gliders. I would highly recommend getting a pair of rudder pedals if you want high realism. Or just use autorudder :P My joystick also has a twist axis but it is just too annoying to use that all the time.

Cheers

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Thanks 'Awesome'

We as beginners do appreciate your insight in the the Glider/Soaring experence...

The Red string... "YAW String" and you are correct about what it is used for....

All my FS-9 & FSX gliders have them....

Now on the Subject of Rudder Pedals making it a real experence... You are correct and I have some "Maxx Pedals"

I personally had to remove them and go to a second Joystick (with Twist) to control the Rudder...

Reason is both of my feet are Numb... (Meaning I could not feel the Rudder Pedals with my feet.)

Now I do use AutoRudder in my Glider but FSX can assign a button to turn off/on the AutoRudder....

So when I need to Side Slip a little I press the button to turn off AutoRudder and use the Twist grip to fully control the Rudder...

I do have two controllers a Yoke and a Joystick..

I assume that makes sense to You...

======================================================================

I was surprised about you getting up to 4 Flights a day...

Thanks for such detail in the Real Glider Flying vs. the Simulator...

Thanks

Ed

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I was surprised about you getting up to 4 Flights a day...

Do you mean surprised as in that's much? or that's not much? :P

Just wondering, which gliders do you fly in FSX? And does ridge lift work in fsx?

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Note to all Beginners.... Want to be Glider Pilots....

A VERY large THANKS goes to "Awesome"

==================================================

'AWESOME' lives up to his Nickname.....

I am going to detail this in another Thread as this one

is getting Long.....

==================================================

Now to your wondering about my comment about the 4 Glider Flights in one day.....

I was surprised at that many were possible....

I figure out of the 90 members 1/3 showed up...(30 members)

Thermal times appear to be around 11:00am to 5:00 pm....(In General)

If each person got to fly 1 hour then 6 members per Glider...

So it would take 5 Gliders for each person to fly one hour....

Keeep in mind I could have done my math wrong also.....

========================================================

Now the Glider in FSX that I enjoy flying is Gensis-2 and the DG808S-Soar..

Now to your question about the Ridge Soaring (I have not been able to figure that out yet

but you can bet I will be asking you questions about it)

========================================================

Moving to another Thread in the "General Chit Chat"

Thanks

Ed

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Sorry about not getting to this sooner, life is really full right now. Anyway...

Thanks "Scott" for your replies...

Scott... are you saying after tweaking you are getting the 7-18 fps, what was it before you started tweaking..??

You did not say if you liked FSX the best or FS-9...??? or do you not have FS-9..

Yep, before the tweaks, I had to run the sliders very low. But that's what I was used to in most sims. What I'm getting now is much more realistic in terms of scenery. I'd really hate to go back to lower frames and not so good scenery, but that happens when I don't pay the price for a "gaming" computer.

I do love FSX over FS2004. But one thing I didn't like, was that FSX doesn't include secondary roads in it's scenery. But then again, I do like the moving vehicles, it really adds to the "feeling" of simulation.

I'm still a bit busy with minor health concerns and other stuff at the moment, but hope to be getting back reading the forums at a consistent rate soon. Nothing to be concerned about totally, so Karen if you're reading this, don't be concerned, I'll PM you later with details.

Scott

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Thanks for Replying Scott....

Sorry to hear about your health problems....

When you do get around to feeling like it ....

How about a detailed list of your tweaks .... I would think all Beginners like me

would appricate your input.....

Besure to list the computer parts (ie) CPU, Harddrive, Memory, OS .....

And on your comments about FSX over FS-9 ....

I see alot of info for both, so that was my reason for asking which Version most people liked....

Get Well Soon , We need You Now...hehehe

Later

Ed

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