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VPA159

Two questions, RXP weather radar and INS system depth

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I'm considering this bird very much. Two questions I'd like to have answered:

1: The INS - I fly 99% of the time on Vatsim and can't easily accept rerouting or SID/STARs without ability to enter custom coordinates as waypoints on the go. I'm curious to find out if it can be used online without being compeletely hampered. Any experiences with this?

I had some success replacing the strange but very accurate GPS in the Catalina with the RXP Garmin 430. But that was easy, I just replaced the gauge and used the existing coordinates. Adding a wholly new gauge (I'm thinking between the INS gauges) is a wholly different thing. Has anybody tried this? Or can the developer give out what numbers to punch in for a square gauge that fills the area on the pedestal suitably?

- Tore

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I'm considering this bird very much. Two questions I'd like to have answered:

1: The INS - I fly 99% of the time on Vatsim and can't easily accept rerouting or SID/STARs without ability to enter custom coordinates as waypoints on the go. I'm curious to find out if it can be used online without being compeletely hampered. Any experiences with this?

I had some success replacing the strange but very accurate GPS in the Catalina with the RXP Garmin 430. But that was easy, I just replaced the gauge and used the existing coordinates. Adding a wholly new gauge (I'm thinking between the INS gauges) is a wholly different thing. Has anybody tried this? Or can the developer give out what numbers to punch in for a square gauge that fills the area on the pedestal suitably?

- Tore

Hi Tore,

Well first of all you should be aware that this bird is complete different flying than a typical FMC Equipped Aircraft!

It makes really fun to fly with INS and the STD equipment like NDB VOR because you allways have to be aware of where you are and where you're going next!

Now regarding you questions....

I'm an online flyer only!

There are practivally no flights I do offline!

And therefore I can say that the INS working principle here is absolutely great for people new to that material and for those who are already experienced!

Of course you can fly SID's and STAR's!

Most SID's ans STAR's are based on a VOR/DME or NDB or similar and therefore can be flown in many Cases without the INS and only by using the NAV1/2 HSI etc equipment!

Now when it comes to the Waypoints many alos have today, you simply enter the Coordinat into the INS and fly there ;)

For example the wayipoint NOLGO....

With FMC equiped you would enter NOLGO and thats it!

With the INS you simply enter the raw coordinates now that NOLGO will be somethin like N53*40'20 E010*05'12. (don't know if the coords are correct but as an example)

You can exactly fly Airways Procedures etc etc......

If you know how you even can manage to fly an Offset next to an airway ;)

You can fly direct to wayipoints and along the prescribed tracks according to the flightplan!

Now here it comes the user friendly part for those new!

You also can easily load a FS flightplan with the Converter tool and let the INS fly all the route without trouble!

So to awnser your 1st question:

YES the A/C and INS System is VATSIM capable of course!

And you even don't need AIRAC Updates :D

The second Question.....

I hgave no clue how to do that and I won't because that Aircraft is meant to be flown with this equipment and no other is neccessary IMO ;)

Rgds, Patrick

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Can you add waypoints after you've taken off? I'm a bit conserned about this as some places waypoints don't have navaids associated with them, not even a distance/bearing on the charts. And actual STAR can be changed by ATC after you take off, leaving your route a bit out-dated.

BTW here's a nice INS tutorial - originally made for a freeware gauge from FS2002. I don't know if the Aerosoft one is as deeply modelled as this one though: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nF0-ZbvjrEw (part 1 of 6, see "related videos" for the rest of them)

And here's a quick guide for the same INS gauge: http://v1-rotate.org/pdf/INS.pdf

Is the Aerosoft one just as detailed?

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I Think the best way to see how things work, is to do the tutorial flight.

I never worked with INS but since i made the Tutorial I Know how Things work.

The Manuals are good as well.

I prefer reading before posting smile.gif

Dont be worry, do the Tutorial and all of your questions will be blown in the wind...believe me.

BTW The most important Thing for flying with INS espacially considering SID's and STAR's ist to have Charts on Board.

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I Think the best way to see how things work, is to do the tutorial flight.

I never worked with INS but since i made the Tutorial I Know how Things work.

The Manuals are good as well.

I prefer reading before posting smile.gif

Dont be worry, do the Tutorial and all of your questions will be blown in the wind...believe me.

BTW The most important Thing for flying with INS espacially considering SID's and STAR's ist to have Charts on Board.

Hi,

on my 747-200 by RFP flights I always program just the first eight waypoints into the INS, so I am able to use number nine for directs given by ATC. Precondition is, that you have the coordinates for the direct available :-) Hopefully ATC give you a direct to a waypoint out of your flightplan, otherwise I say "unable" and ATC has to react on this. Sometimes ATC can direct you to a VOR which is easy to follow. Good luck....

Steffen

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Leaving one WP free is a good option fror such things ;)

--------To all new to INS system !!!------------

Real Pilots allways have Flightplan in a printed version aboard!

I know with all the FMC's etc one doesn't allways do so but for the INS flight you better print it with the coords or have a second monitor where all are listed.

Tip from my side: I have FSC8 running on a second machine where I allways have the route FPL coords, FRQ's etc etc...

And what is also very IMPORTANT is to have Charts available!

Again here I ahve a One more Monitor where I allways have the VACC-SAG Page with charts or other sources open.

With the INS it is possible to simply load forget and fly yes but when having ATC you certainly will get in trouble if you don't have a FPL with the points etc listed and no charts.

With an FMC you could do that and nobody would knoe but here not! ;)

Rgds

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So help me understand this: If I create a flight plan in Flight Sim Commander and I save as a .pln file. This file was created using waypoints, etc. via a Navigraph cycle. As we all know, FSX alone doesn't have any updated data other than what was shipped with the program. The INS can read these "new" waypoints because they have been "assigned" LAT/LON coordinates by FSC/Navigraph? The INS reads the coordinates assigned to the waypoints?

I hope that's not too confusing!!!

Thanks,

Hylan

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So help me understand this: If I create a flight plan in Flight Sim Commander and I save as a .pln file. This file was created using waypoints, etc. via a Navigraph cycle. As we all know, FSX alone doesn't have any updated data other than what was shipped with the program. The INS can read these "new" waypoints because they have been "assigned" LAT/LON coordinates by FSC/Navigraph? The INS reads the coordinates assigned to the waypoints?

I hope that's not too confusing!!!

Thanks,

Hylan

Guess I know what you mean....

The INS from Simcheck can read the FS plan files and displays the corresponding name of the wp yes!

But only if you loaded a flightplan into the cdu then it wil also display the names because it has been implementented in the *.pln file you created with fsc or whatever!

If you type manually the coordinates then it doesn't know of course what waypoit it is!

That's the same thing in real except that the real INS won't display you names ;)

Here Simcheck did something to help people new to that and make it a bit more simple!

Of course you can change the waypoints during flight!

You can fly along the loaded plan or the self entered plan and points!

Therefore you can also fly airways, directs etc etc!

Rgds, Patrick

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Guess I know what you mean....

The INS from Simcheck can read the FS plan files and displays the corresponding name of the wp yes!

But only if you loaded a flightplan into the cdu then it wil also display the names because it has been implementented in the *.pln file you created with fsc or whatever!

If you type manually the coordinates then it doesn't know of course what waypoit it is!

That's the same thing in real except that the real INS won't display you names ;)

Here Simcheck did something to help people new to that and make it a bit more simple!

Of course you can change the waypoints during flight!

You can fly along the loaded plan or the self entered plan and points!

Therefore you can also fly airways, directs etc etc!

Rgds, Patrick

What if the flight plan I load has newer waypoints because the AIRAC cycle for FSC is newer than the default nav data that shipped with FSX? The INS only reads LAT/LON so with an exported flight plan, it looks at the LAT/LON coordinates. For example, let's say DUMMY is a new fix as of 2010. Dummy isn't in the default FSX data. But when I create a flight plan with FSC, the current AIRAC cycle has DUMMY. When the flight plan is exported, everything should work? Maybe this question is better suited towards a general FSC forum. Maybe that will explain it better. I need to run a test flight to check.

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What if the flight plan I load has newer waypoints because the AIRAC cycle for FSC is newer than the default nav data that shipped with FSX? The INS only reads LAT/LON so with an exported flight plan, it looks at the LAT/LON coordinates. For example, let's say DUMMY is a new fix as of 2010. Dummy isn't in the default FSX data. But when I create a flight plan with FSC, the current AIRAC cycle has DUMMY. When the flight plan is exported, everything should work? Maybe this question is better suited towards a general FSC forum. Maybe that will explain it better. I need to run a test flight to check.

Every flight plan is based on LAT/LON coordinates, names are only used as a convenience. The flight plan itself has the lat/lon for each point on the plan so it does not matter if FSX is using a different AIRAC. Think of it this way; you are not going to the waypoint called DUMMY, you are going to the cordinates X,Y. In some tools, the coordinates X,Y happen to have a label called DUMMY.

By the way, this applies to offset waypoints as well. The fact that a waypoint is describes as a certain distance in a given direction from another waypoint does not change the fact that it has coordinates and it is those coordinates you are going to.

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Every flight plan is based on LAT/LON coordinates, names are only used as a convenience. The flight plan itself has the lat/lon for each point on the plan so it does not matter if FSX is using a different AIRAC. Think of it this way; you are not going to the waypoint called DUMMY, you are going to the cordinates X,Y. In some tools, the coordinates X,Y happen to have a label called DUMMY.

By the way, this applies to offset waypoints as well. The fact that a waypoint is describes as a certain distance in a given direction from another waypoint does not change the fact that it has coordinates and it is those coordinates you are going to.

Thanks Paul. I was seeking confirmation on all you stated.

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Hi,

I think most has been said already but in short:

- INS flightplans are NOT related to any kind of database, neither does it check if a waypoint is named correctly or if the coordinates are entered correctly

- you can fly by entering each waypoint manually (LAT and LONG), for that to work you will best use a printed flightlog and write the number of the waypoint in the INS next to each waypoint in your printed version. Also you would normally check the distances between the waypoints in your flightlog to the calculated distances in the INS, this gives you some safety against entering wrong coordinates. In a real airplane 1 pilot would enter the waypoints and the other pilot would verify them and check the distances

- you can also have the INS run through an FSX style (XML based) flightplan. In this case the flightplan will be progressively loaded into the INS memory. If the flightplan contains more than 9 waypoints then only 9 will be inside the INS memory at any time. That being said, you can decide in which memory slot the first waypoint* in the flightplan will be loaded. If for instance you are not sure about the exact SID you will get but you do know the exit point for the SID, you could decide to put the first waypoint in memory location 4 leaving 1-2-3 open for entering SID waypoints manually

*an important note about what I mean by "the first waypoint in a flightplan", in a standard FSX flightplan the very first waypoint is the departure airport, I have decided NOT to load this in the INS but to use the first real en-route waypoint as the first waypoint that will be loaded in the INS

Hope that clarifies things for you.

And NO we have no plans at this time to add an FMC, sorry.

Björn

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