EDDK/EDDH - massive FPS issue when turning towards the trees

[mischka27 0]

Hey guys, 

 

I have been using your software for ages now and after I finally switched to MSFS I had to get some of your airports as well. I am very happy, but I am having some issues in two of them (EDDK,EDDH). Everything seems fine when I am in the cockpit our outside view, while looking towards the terminal (over 40fps on ultra in 4k). Once I turn around or taxi with a view to the trees around the airport, I have massive frame drops. I noticed even more: if I look on the aircraft from above the frames drop to below 30. It seems somehow the graphics card is limited by something. On the other hand I am using your EDDM scenery and everything works like a charm with over 40fps. 

 

I already tried everything (install/uninstall), but still the same issue, I have installed REX  AccuSeason as well, but the problem was the same before and after. 

 

My system:

i5-13600k,  32Gb DDR5, 6800XT GPU, Win11 (everything updated), MSFS installed on NVSM.

 

I added some screenshots to show you the issue and some pictured of munich not having any. I am glad if you guys can help.

Best regards,

Mikhail

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[Jo Erlend 2145]

Hi, I'll try and recreate this at EDDK, although the scenery itself doesn't make any adjustments to the trees in that particular area.
Is this with or without the "City Update 01" installed? As that one adds some photogrammetry for Cologne.

[mischka27 0]

I have installed all MSFS updates. By the way, I noticed I had my Radeon chill on, so the frames at Munich climb to 60. In Cologne and Hamburg the problem continues. And I assume it’s not only about the trees, since I have the same issue in the top down view…

 

Thanks for your help!

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Are you 100% sure you have this issue with ONLY our products activated?

[barneyz_bln 2]

EDDK is indeed very demanding in terms of system performance relative to other airports. I guess that it is also due to the many objects on the airport and of course the suboptimal programming and performance optimization by Asobo. Regarding the performance optimization, something has been announced for the next update.

What you can try out is if a reduction of the LOD for objects and terrain makes your frames look better. I wouldn't go above a value of 100, but also not less than 75. 

 

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

47 minutes ago, barneyz_bln said:

 and of course the suboptimal programming and performance optimization by Asobo.

 

Sorry? As far as I am aware, the Asobo engine is about the most efficient if you consider the long view lines and curved globe model, If you know any graphics engine that is more efficient do let us know.  We have shown that the graphics engine can handle objects with 5 million polygons without breaking into a sweat in the North Sea project and are experimenting with objects that have 20.000.000 polygons. One single object (a ship) having as much polygons as 10 high def airport in P3D.  What matters is using what the graphic engine can do. So using modern concepts and forgetting high def bitmaps. If you see a project being advertised with high def (or 4k or even 8k) textures, you know this is outdated technology. Modelers who do not understand what the graphics engine can offer. P3D technology. 

 

Using the new technology you can put a 4 point text on a fastener on the hull of an aircraft (so readable text that is less then 5mm tall) that uses a 2k texture for the full length.

 

Without disrespect, I doubt you understand the issue. 

[barneyz_bln 2]

Okay, I can only judge this from my point of view and my existing hardware, but I can understand the previous speaker's problem very well. There is definitely still potential to optimize the performance. You can always read in the official forum that many users have problems despite a high-end system. This is also confirmed by the announcement that Asobo wants to improve the performance with the next update. I'm not saying that the graphics engine is fundamentally bad, but that there are performance problems in some places, such as frame drops or micro stutters.
For example, I specifically have problems when using a triple screen setup. As soon as you add another monitor, you have a massive drop in frames. Despite i9-13900K and a RTX 3080 Ti. Asobo definitely still has some room for improvement here. Other development studios have proven that it can be done better (Nvidia SMP, for example).
But that is not the topic here. And EDDK is definitely very hungry in terms of performance. But that could also be due to the city of Cologne, which is very close to the airport. I don't want to complain about EDDK's scenery either. After all, it is very successful and rich in details and therefore needs a little more in terms of performance. If you want a smooth image, you may have to reduce your graphics settings a bit. That is also understandable.

 

[mischka27 0]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Mathijs Kok:

Are you 100% sure you have this issue with ONLY our products activated?

Thanks for the reply, do you mean if I have this issue with other scenery (made b different developers) as well? If that’s the case, I must say I don’t know. At least I did not realise it. But the installation is quite new, so I will try other places tomorrow. 

 

Its just strange, since my system can do so much more apparently. Do you have any idea what the issue could be (even  if it’s not only Aerosoft related)?

 

thanks for your help. Best regards 

[mikkel 63]

13 hours ago, barneyz_bln said:

As soon as you add another monitor, you have a massive drop in frames. Despite i9-13900K and a RTX 3080 Ti. Asobo definitely still has some room for improvement here. 

 

Sounds reasonable that you get a drop in frame rate when doubling the amount of polygon, textures and vertices being turned into pixels. I have a similar setup to yours, and notice that the system is very well balanced between the GPU and the CPU on normal resolution. An extra monitor would probably require an extra GPU to work fluently. Btw, regarding consistent stutters, that is absolutely a problem with the latest builds of the sim when using certain add ons. As an example, I would consider current build and 'Powerlines and Solar Farms' by 'mamu82' as incompatible at this moment, unfotunatly. I certainly hope we'll see some improvements in this area.

BTW: What about Nvidia SMP? Seems like there was a lot of talk about it 5 years ago, is it still relevant?

[mikkel 63]

11 hours ago, mischka27 said:

Its just strange, since my system can do so much more apparently. Do you have any idea what the issue could be (even  if it’s not only Aerosoft related)?

 

Do you have any other sceneries activated?

 

Have you tried deleting/emptying all other sceneries in the Community Folder, and deleting the content of the "scenery index" folder and deleting all scenery caches from within the simulator options menu, and only run your setup with the 'problematic' add-ons? I mentioned problems with 'Powerlines and Solar Farms' in my previous post as an example, there are a lot of QA issues, even with popular add ons. 

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

13 hours ago, barneyz_bln said:

For example, I specifically have problems when using a triple screen setup. As soon as you add another monitor, you have a massive drop in frames. Despite i9-13900K and a RTX 3080 Ti. Asobo definitely still has some room for improvement here.

 

So if you ask the system to draw double the amount of pixels you see a drop in framerates? Now that is not really surprising right? 

 

Now there is always room for improvement, but the simple fact is that the MSFS graphics engine is incredibly fast. 

[mischka27 0]

So guys, back to topic

 

Well I am trying every scenery I have right now:
AS Brussels - constantly over 60fps, when turning towards infinty, fps drop by 10 and I am GPU limited as well (might be something with the drawing distance?) but at least not as massive as EDDK/EDDH

FlyTampa Athens - 65 to 60 when turining away from terminal

FlyTampa Corfu - 70 to 60

AS Paderborn - 68 to 53

FSDT Zurich - 62 to 52

FSDT Basel -  59 to 49

ok, so testing until this point leads to one thing: the problem is everywhere but in some places worse than in others. After some testing I got better results by reducing trees from high to low and reducing the terrain level of detail. So lets go back to EDDK.

 

Cologne once again: like posted, 30 fps, when turning trees to low, 45 fps... So that seems to be the main issue with the only diffrerence being that the performance hit in EDDK and EDDH is way worse than in other places. Thats why i noticed it on landing and while taxi. 

 

Main question now: does everybody have the fps problem with trees or is it something with the system I can resolve? I actually don't care about fps numbers, but I cant fly while the sim has to load the trees on short final

 

I tried deleting the cache and everything. No change except for tree setting and terrain level of detail

 

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

 

 

 

[barneyz_bln 2]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Mathijs Kok:

So if you ask the system to draw double the amount of pixels you see a drop in framerates? Now that is not really surprising right? 

 

Now there is always room for improvement, but the simple fact is that the MSFS graphics engine is incredibly fast. 

Of course, this is no surprise. However, only a simple solution for multi-screen operation has been implemented, which has not been optimized in any way. The graphics engine is fast in most cases, but not in this one. Multiprojection and Nvidia SMP would be a solution to improve the performance massively.

 

===

 

But to come back to the original problem of @mischka27 ...

I can confirm that EDDK and EDDH basically generate a higher system load compared to EDDM. I tested this yesterday in comparison under the same conditions, as I am in the process of finding an optimal graphics setting myself.

I suspect, but this is just an assumption, that especially because of the many, small objects on EDDK the graphics card has to do properly. But maybe it has other reasons that I am not aware of.

 

Question, do you have the value for 'GLOBAL RENDERING QUALITY' set to Ultra or Custom in the graphics settings?

If this is set to Ultra, then you should definitely set the value to Custom and adjust the individual values. 

Play around a bit with the values of 'OBJECTS LEVEL OF DETAIL (LOD)', 'TERRAIN LEVEL OF DETAIL (LOD)' and 'OFF SCREEN TERRAIN PRE_CACHING' in the graphics settings. I would set a maximum of 100 for both LOD's, for pre-caching you have to test if it makes a difference to use Mid, High or Ultra. 

I would also recommend to delete the rolling cache and create a new one, if necessary with a higher value.

 

What I noticed in your screenshots: All EDDM screenshots are with clear sky, EDDK is very cloudy. I can't see it clearly, do you have the VOLUMETRIC CLOUDS set to Ultra? Ultra draws a lot of power. Here just set it to High.

 

Otherwise, you can also upload a screenshot of your graphics settings, if you like.

[barneyz_bln 2]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb mischka27:

Main question now: does everybody have the fps problem with trees or is it something with the system I can resolve? I actually don't care about fps numbers, but I cant fly while the sim has to load the trees on short final

 

oh, our posts just overlapped. Have your previous answer only now seen.

 

I'll have to check at home. But I know that I only have the trees on Medium.
Buildings and Grass and Bushes are also only on Medium.

[mischka27 0]

Well, actually I tried everything, that you wrote on your previous post  I have just created a new cache with 120Gb, OBJECTS LEVEL OF DETAIL at 100, TERRAIN LEVEL OF DETAIL at 170, OFF SCREEN TERRAIN PRE_CACHING on Ultra. My PC can handle that quite well, except for EDDK/EDDH... Yeah, I have forgotten to change the weather while creating the screenshots, but today I tested with clear skies to be able to compare better. But yeah, I have almost everything set to ultra. I also tried all settings apart from trees. Reducing Building quality gives me maybe 1-3fps and all others don't change anything. I will turn down trees to Medium for now, but I sure would love to see a better solution  . Maybe Mathijs has some ideas...

 

 

[barneyz_bln 2]

Have you also checked your settings for Traffic, Airport Life, Land and Sea Traffic? Here you can also get out some performance for your system.

Otherwise, I can upload my settings to you this evening.

 

And are you sure that a value of 100 for TERRAIN LEVEL OF DETAIL does not bring any improvement?

 

 

[mischka27 0]

Sure it does! But that’s not the problem apparently. I would rather like to know if it’s my system, reacting that way to trees or my settings. Or maybe the limit of my GPU… if it wasn’t for cologne I would not have noticed anything with limited fps   and I don’t like changing my settings just for one airport. 

[barneyz_bln 2]

I have just take some screenshots from my system on EDDK and EDDM.
3x 2160x1440 (6480x1440), custom graphics settings, LOD all on 100 , trees medium, clear sky, no traffic, no AddOns, only Fenix A320 and Aerosoft EDDM/EDDK

 

two screnshots from EDDK (EEDK_01, EDDK_02) --> with trees on ultra I have 42 FPS for the first screenshot 
one from EDDM (EDDM_01)

One screenshot from EDDK with Terrain LOD 170 (EDDK_LOD170)

 

Two things I noticed in your screenshots:
1. at the point "Render" a different resolution is displayed (3456x1944) instead of 4K with 3840x2160, but should not be the problem
2. you seem to have installed an add-on that replaces the original vehicles with custom vehicles. Have you deactivated this add-on and seen what your frames do on EDDK? 

 

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[mischka27 0]

Hi, well if I turn trees to medium and reduce LOD to 100 I have over 60 fps, even in cologne. Like I said, that’s not the point. I like my performance at other airports so there is not much sense reducing my settings just to make it work at one place. But I guess only an update of EDDK or a way to reduce the performance hit by trees will help there. 
 

The rendering is set to 90%, a nice way to increase performance without losing almost anything of the visual. The addon used is GSX. If it would be the problem, then I guess everywhere. 

[barneyz_bln 2]

Ok, then it is indeed the case that you have to live with the fact that EDDK is obviously more FPS-hungry, for whatever reason. I have the same problem as soon as I activate the live traffic and the live weather including the ultra clouds I love. Then I have in and around EDDK also only 30 FPS. Maybe EDDK is still optimized, if it is possible.
Continue to have a good flight.

 

[mikkel 63]

Seems like the problem is with the trees and not EDDK? You mentioned running a season add-on that modifies the tries, sounds like the plausible sinner to me.

[Ha_Ma 195]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb mikkel:

Seems like the problem is with the trees and not EDDK? You mentioned running a season add-on that modifies the tries, sounds like the plausible sinner to me.

This Addon modifies the trees all over the world, not only around EDDK and EDDH

[mikkel 63]

1 hour ago, Ha_Ma said:

This Addon modifies the trees all over the world, not only around EDDK and EDDH

 

Yes, and global sceneries can show their problems at certain areas, so this proves nothing. Personally I think a scenery modifying all the trees in the MSFS world sounds like madness. Seasons will come to the simulator when it it's ready, IMHO.

[mischka27 0]

Like I said in the first post, there is no change when deactivating REX Accu Season. It’s all about tree density. All (smaller) airports with a lot of trees around are showing similar results. But EDDK is absolutely extreme, because it’s giving me much lower fps in the first place.