linuxwolf 0 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I could not belive after getting back from holidays Aerosoft has closed the canada office. We finally have a dollar worth a dollar and now the shop is closed. I find this totally unacceptable myself and will concider this when making future purchases. I loved the support Richard gave me atleast in Canada and that I could call based on my time if there was a problem. I really think Aerosoft needs to rethink this decission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altstiff 28 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I agree. Richard was the king of customer service to say the least. I wonder how much (if anything) he had to do with it. :?: Maybe Aerosoft made a mistake..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentBeale 0 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 They certainly made a mistake. I wanted to upgrade MyTraffic CD 5.0 which I purchased from Richard to 5.1. Now I would need to ship the CD to Germany for 30 euros and then pay 5 euros for the upgrade. Totally unacceptable and unless it's a download file I'll be taking my business to another publisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepid 2 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 awww! come on you gotta be kidding me they closed the Canada office ,Its only 20 miles from my house, I liked the extremely professional service I have received so far and was looking forward to dealing with such professionalism this X-mas when I purchase from my X-mas list to myself (please say it aint so) I guess I will have to check into it a little further..... a very disappointed customer Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk09 0 Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 WHAAAT they closed the Canada store what gives that bites:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 6, 2007 Aerosoft Share Posted November 6, 2007 WHAAAT they closed the Canada store what gives that bites:( But basically it will not make a lot of difference to customers, guys. It's not like we do bad customer support, right? The NA office was closed for many reason, the fact that the Euro/Dollar conversion made our products 25% more expensive in a few months is just a minor factor (but for sure it does not help). The only thing that will change is the phone support for now. All the other things will be taken over by other staff. All pending orders will be handled as they should be. It is not fully sure how we will handle boxed orders to the US. These days shipping costs from Germany to the US are not so much more expensive then sending them from Canada (keep in mind we had to send them to the Canadian office anyway) and delivery time is also not so much longer. The US/Canadian website will be merged with the English section and will haver selectable currency. This will ensure the website is better up to date and products are available at the same time for all regions of the world. So in the end, there really should not be a problem. If there IS a problem let me know and from that moment it is my problem and not yours, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk09 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hey Mathjis, Please do us canadian's a favor and keep Richard running the Canadian site he's got great customer service ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 6, 2007 Aerosoft Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hey Mathjis, Please do us canadian's a favor and keep Richard running the Canadian site he's got great customer service ! Sorry, Richard is no longer working for Aerosoft. But as you know we do good service here, even for you Canadians, lol. If you allow me a question, I am still not sure what the issue is, in what way do some customer fear that support will be reduced? The only thing I can imagine is in phone support. But the fact we done phone support there was rather special. We sell in 23 countries and only do support by phone in Germany and up to now in Canada. But if you consider that 10 minutes of phone support can eat up the total profit of a 19.95 sale it is just not always a viable option. If we see one of our staff spend 15 minutes on the phone with a customer we know it is good service, but it also means this sale is COSTING money, not making money. Aerosoft would be better off if that customer would not have bought that product. Sometimes things are that simple. The same support issue would have been dealt with a lot more efficient on the forum or by email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepid 2 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Please don't take offence (we) don't fear the loss of customer support,Its just in this large global flight sim community it is nice to deal with someone from your home-town area and in my dealings ,Richard never failed to please. Randy P.S. still desparatly waiting (patiently) for the F16 and Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altstiff 28 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Not to mention I could buy something from Richard and get it a day or two later. On another note, I bought the PMDG 747 a couple years back from another store in Ontario and it had no manuals. I contacted Richard and he sent them to me free of charge. I did have a conversation with Richard and he had alot of things to say, some I won't share here. One thing Ricahrd did tell me was "The team around Mathijs Kok is awesome and very dedicated to customer service" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxwolf 0 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 My Conern is two fold, one the amount of time shipping for boxed sets will now take. Also the cost of shipping of course. When I ordered My Traffic X and the carenado stationair It cost me $7.99 for shipping and had it within 4 days. That is pretty dang good given Ilive on the west coast of Canada. Now I could have to wait weeks for an item to arrive and god knows what the shipping cost would be. On the canadian website the post said you can always purchase our boxed products from one of the listed retailers. Well let me tell you they have little to no stock of aerosoft products period, let alone for FSX. So therfore I am left having to order from you directly in Germany and hence we are back to my original two points I just mentioned. You have to keep in mind there is no way I can see Canadians willing to pay some outrageous shipping fee maybe as high as $20.00, perhaps import dutys, and on top of it wait perhaps upto 2 weeks for the items. Atleast that is my take on it and concerns. Sincerly David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altstiff 28 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 These guys carry almost all Aerosoft stock. Although it is a bit higher in price.... http://www.thresholdaviation.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxwolf 0 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 While I thank you for the link " A bit higher in price" is a drastic understatement. Eurowings for $60.00, Airbus holiday Destinations $60.00 thats insane. And thats just for FS9 stuff, I dont even want to see their FSX software prices. Though the wilco Airbus deluxe version 1 was reasonable at that price since aersoft canada site was about the same. But again thank you for the link I will keep it in mind if I cant find a product elsewhere. But I think I will look at other manufacturers/distributors based here in North america. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydvdan 2 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 You can always order Aerosoft products from PCAviator as well in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 8, 2007 Aerosoft Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hold on guys, we are changing things as we speak. When all is in place (think days), customers in the USA and Canada will buy the products for the same price as European customers and shipping costs will only be marginally higher. Also delivery time will only be about 2 days longer. Remember we used to do this for almost a decade before we opened the Canadian shop, okay? The fact you get so few Euro's for your US Dollars is unfortunately beyond our control. But you will understand it is a big problem. US folks pay a lot more then 18 months ago and we get exactly the same as 18 months ago. It just makes our products very expensive in the US. It also means that I order just about anything but the sugar in my coffee from the US these days. Btw, of course getting download version solves the whole problem, delivery time is down to minutes, you often get more up to date files compared to boxed versions and almost all of them are cheaper than boxed copies. In fact as US/Canadian customers do not need to pay sales tax for those orders they pay 20% less than European customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepid 2 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 While I thank you for the link " A bit higher in price" is a drastic understatement. Eurowings for $60.00, Airbus holiday Destinations $60.00 thats insane. And thats just for FS9 stuff, I dont even want to see their FSX software prices. Though the wilco Airbus deluxe version 1 was reasonable at that price since aersoft canada site was about the same. But again thank you for the link I will keep it in mind if I cant find a product elsewhere. But I think I will look at other manufacturers/distributors based here in North america. CheersI looked at that site as well,nearly fell off my chair when I saw the prices( $53 ) for the warthog as an example I for one wont be dealing with them if I can Help it > Mathijs, In my opinion (for what its worth)most of us ,will miss Richard as he was a great asset to your company,and our hobby but like many others I dislike change, and fear that when change happens it is not always for the better. I am sure that You and your business partners will do your absolute best to make sure we Canadians are not taken advantage of. Here's Hoping, my 2 cents worth. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxwolf 0 Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 While I appreciate the update Mathijs, you need to remembr Canada does on use US dollars we have our own Currencys. And doing a quick conversion based on the Airbus Deluxe from your EU site. http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?...;submit=Convert that is almost $70.00 cdn for it, then add lets say $12.00 for shipping that is almost and hoping no dutys or anything thats almost $85.00 for what we used to purchase for $59.95 and thats with our dollar being worth almost $1.10 USD. While I will of course wait to see what you and your staff come up with, if my calculations are correct dont think it will change my mind unfortunatly. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 9, 2007 Aerosoft Share Posted November 9, 2007 While I appreciate the update Mathijs, you need to remembr Canada does on use US dollars we have our own Currencys. And doing a quick conversion based on the Airbus Deluxe from your EU site. http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?...;submit=Convert that is almost $70.00 cdn for it, then add lets say $12.00 for shipping that is almost and hoping no dutys or anything thats almost $85.00 for what we used to purchase for $59.95 and thats with our dollar being worth almost $1.10 USD. While I will of course wait to see what you and your staff come up with, if my calculations are correct dont think it will change my mind unfortunatly. David First of all, we are VERY happy Canada has it's own currency, it makes that market a lot more attractive for us as this moment. Let me explain what we are trying to get done right now, let's use London Heathrow as an example (I am rounding of numbers, but never to our own advantage, ok?) - A European customer would pay 26 euro (us$ 38.00) to buy the product and 8 euro ($12) to have it shipped to his house. Total us$ 50.00 - A USA customer would pay 21.50 euro (us$ 31.50) plus 8 euro ($12) to have it shipped to his house. Total us$ 42.50. As we keep shipping costs the same and the USA customer would not have to pay the EEC sales tax, he would get the same product cheaper than our European (local) customers. There is one problem there, the shipment costs is for a simple postal shipment. Not ensured and the risk is with the customer. We can not trace the shipment. Sending a package over the pond using a courier is around $45, no way around that. We will ship that way if you prefer, but for $45 you better take the very small risk. We shipped thousands of packages and hardly had any problems. When there are problems we solve them. Basically, for $12 we are not loosing a customer, right? Now, take note, this is NOT what we offer now, we are trying to make it happen, but it is has issues I am not sure about now, for example many people say we got to charge the EEC VAT for a sale to the USA. Personally I think that is silly, a US customer does not need to pay EEC sales tax, but our legal department will flog for writing this (to be clear ANY tax we charge is paid to the state, it 's not like we keep it). So calm your horses, let us work it out. And in the mean time the SAME product as download will cost just $31, with always the latest files, a simpler installer (copy and pasting the serial from a mail is easier then copying it from a sticker in the box) and has a delivery time as long as your download (2 minutes for me). Personally I would always pick the download, why pay more and wait longer? Why depend on a delivery service that only delivers when you are NOT at home? Because it is safer? It's the same payment system and with download you know in 1 minute if all is okay, not a week while you wait for a box to arrive. As far as we know we currently have NO customers who have legit claims with problems about our download delivery. And to be honest, we do have those who are waiting for boxes. We ship them, but after that we are depending on others. The customer complains, we try to find out what happened, shout at UPS a bit and hope it is okay. That takes days. If somebody does not get a download link we send him a mail and it is okay. That takes minutes. Ohhh and in case you wonder, we spend a LOT of time to get printed maps in the boxed version, but all prices quoted would have made the boxed version at least $10 more expensive. So we send boxed and download customers to http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/login.jsp where all maps are downloadable . Would YOU pay $10 for something that is basically free to download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB 11 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 With a heck of a lot of respect to the US users, we EU users have exactly the same problem when buying US stuff and having it shipped here. OK, we are extremely advantaged right now with the exchange rates... but "anticlockwise postage" is even slower than EU to US sometimes, so downloads are really better for us here. ...but... (I accept I stand the risk of getting flamed here) What's wrong with download purchases and burning to a disc of your own choosing - and making a legit backup copy too, while you are at it? Slow connections - well I do appreciate that little issue, but I understand the ration of fast DSL connections is a lot higher on the US/Can side of the pond. And if you are a rare baud-rate-challenged user, there's always an excellent download manager to be found for free so you can get most downloads overnight (or two) (try Free Download Manager). Still a lot faster than postal. (Yes, you want paper... skip my rant and go to the end of this post :wink:) Of course, customer service is also an issue and that I do understand. You are between 5 and 9 hours behind Europe so... So there's another problem you folks have: In America, the average sim hobbyist is an evening flyer, which makes you active very late at night to early morning EU time. It is indeed hard to get "instant help". You have to wait until next day breakfast time for a customer support response or be up flying at 9:00 a.m. EU shop time here to catch the "paid" supporters to turn up "at work"... ...or make do with one of the hordes of us non-Aerosoft nutters who try our best to help out. I can see where US customers do have a CS issue - after all, as an EU purchaser of US Sim stuff, I can still reach a hotline when I am "live". AND I can get it cheaper... The main "beef" seems to be the lack of a "local guy" yes? One without a quaint accent :wink: But even with Richard manning a "local" distribution point for hardcopy etc. I did often wonder how much it cost Aerosoft to get the bulk stuff over there in the first place and how many copies Richard had to sell to show black numbers instead of red on his accounts. Aerosoft are doing their fair best to make a profit - it is business after all - but they must still keep us customers happy. It's all simple math in the end, even if Richard was not on a full time job as Aerosoft rep (or was he? Expensive option...). Personally I'd put "instant" purchasing as far more advantageous than a fancy DVD box and waiting for the postman. At least the online shop is 24/7/365 and help is never really that far away in the final analysis. And then look at some of the "paid" Aerosofters' response mails and forum posts. Have you seen the timestamps and seen the hours of availability you really do get? Even if it is earning money by doing something like simming, the kind of hours you get from the Aerosoft staffers are really amazing. Finally - of course and at last - you hard cores want the printed material (me too, even in EU). Hey, Aerosoft, Why not do a split deal? Download the software and stick the paper in an envelope at letter postage rates. Forget about sending the DVD and box - that's just a waste of money. We can buy an empty DVD box for a fraction of the postage cost - if we really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S 75 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I know everyone has been mentioning customer service here as a driving factore for voicing concerns... Personally, and it has been mentioned many times, these forums provide the absolute BEST customer service of any flight sim vendor I have ever seen. And believe me, I know Mathijs and his crew take customer support personally. As Chris mentioned, Aerosoft is a business and frankly he presents an interesting compromise between download availability and being mailed manuals through the post. Also, - I know many people can be computer challenged...so flying in their favorite sim can be a much easier task than knowing how to burn a CD or DVD and archive your downloaded product...so how about a sticky thread with some basic tech support on burning your product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSU 0 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Personally, I don't buy boxed products. I go for the download everytime and burn it to a disc of my own. So much faster and convenient. Got a problem? I post to the forum or send an email. Problem soved by the next day at the latest, while I would otherwise still be waiting for the product to arrive at my door. As far as the paper side goes, I don't need it. You get .pdf files of the manuals and other documents. If I need a hard copy, the print button is only a keystroke away. Maybe I am in the small minority here but the download option has always been my method of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc W. 0 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Personally, I don't buy boxed products. I go for the download everytime and burn it to a disc of my own. So much faster and convenient. Got a problem? I post to the forum or send an email. Problem soved by the next day at the latest, while I would otherwise still be waiting for the product to arrive at my door. As far as the paper side goes, I don't need it. You get .pdf files of the manuals and other documents. If I need a hard copy, the print button is only a keystroke away. Maybe I am in the small minority here but the download option has always been my method of choice. I agree completely, only advantages in downloading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepid 2 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I second that posting from Ripmaster ,I am one of those critically computer challenged individuals(if it wasn't for the teenagers that freeload around my house)I would find it difficult to get the info off the net and direct it to the PROPER location(without help) Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted November 20, 2007 Aerosoft Share Posted November 20, 2007 I second that posting from Ripmaster ,I am one of those critically computer challenged individuals(if it wasn't for the teenagers that freeload around my house)I would find it difficult to get the info off the net and direct it to the PROPER location(without help) Randy Okay, I like the idea. "Download shopping for dummies" if you excuse the pun. I will use you and Ripmaster as the testers. You each get one free download and follow the text I will create to see where I go to fast, to slow to what ever. Deal? I will make time for that somewhere this weekend (got to install a new server so that always gives me loads of time to do other stuff.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB 11 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Big thumbs up to Mathijs there! That's what makes Aerosoft Aerosoft! Pleasant surprises... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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