Announcement: Competitive Glider (outdated now)

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

The title is still under discussion btw.

Gliders are GREAT fun in FSX. The glider missions are by far my favorites and the new thermals are really pretty good. If you really are careful you can even feel under what wing the thermal is and steer into it. As we also have the tow aircraft in FSX a whole new aviation world is available. Most importantly we found a guy (Joachim Schweigler) who knows how to make it look good and flies the aircraft himself (a rare mix, believe you me!).

We chosen the Discuss gliders because they are pretty well known, used to be top of the line competition gliders until a few years ago and are now flown at many clubs. We'll do three models;

• Discus CS (pure glider)

• Discus BT (glider with 15 Kw aux engine not self launching)

• Discus BM (glider with 35 Kw aux engine self launching)

We'll also do a gauge set that is very high end and will include what gliders call a 'flight computer' that helps you along your route. These are small but complex gauges and you will be surprised how much info there is to be found in them. Release is scheduled this spring and we'll report more when we got more information.

[ChrisB 11]

EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!

Ideas and thoughts for Joachim (just to add mileage and "difference" to the addon and to give it a USP): a ground vehicle and trailer to drive to your favourite airfield. Different planes for the default tow aircraft (there must be a way to change that?). Some method for placing winches at selected airfields. Flexing wings? Competition missions (more wave and ridge lift please). Have bits of the pilot visible in VC - unlike "normal" VCs, you can't fly these kind of gliders without seeing your own feet. And while he's at it, one hand on the stick and the other on the controls on the left.

Oh... Duo Discus at some stage would be a worthwhile second purchase.

Mathijs is soooo right: Gliding really is fun in FSX and gliders are low on polys too. OK, it has been a long while since I stopped RW gliding, but FSX gliding is the most enjoyable and best feeling gliding experience. Unfortunately I never had a chance at RW flying a Discus, but the word on the "streets" was that these were serious gliders!

Me? I have "old stuff" in my log book like the T21, Blanik, Oly 2B, Schwalbe, K4 -6 -8 and 13, Pilatus P4 - very WOW! Aluminium skin, + 6G and very aerobatic ((and if anyone wondered where I got my bad habits from with the Christen Eagle, the P4 is my solo source of mad acros - it's amazing what you can do with a P4 and 4000 feet of height reserve! :wink: )) and a few others of the era.

This will be one addon to watch out for.

[Robert S 75]

I've actually flown gliders myself, so I can tell you a good soundset will be important. In other words, what do you hear when there is no engine?

Well, during acrobatics you can hear dirt particles running up and down the fuselage as wind noise bleeds off, and of course speaking of, - wind noise is crucial to adding to realism.

Also, take offs and landings have a unique sound to them as well...

Great news on this announcement, acrobatic gliding can be so fun!!!

[ChrisB 11]

Ah yes Ripmaster - and we we mustn't forget all the crud that lands in the canopy when inverted. "Ahhhh! That's where I left my sandwiches last month..."

My CFI took me through loops in a K13 - we'd been practicing field landings the week before. At the top of the loop he pushed the stick forward and.... "pitter patter"... half an inch of Dhekelia (Kingsfield Cyprus) melon field landed in the canopy top, below my head. Most of it went down my collar on levelling off. CFI thought it was funny.

[Iron.Eagle 0]

AHH! that is some really good news. Flying the Glider in FSX is one of my favourite activities since it's slow and doesn't eat much FPS

@Aerosoft: Will ya stop sucking the money out of my pocket? you're doing too many good Add-ons, which makes now: 5 left to buy (goodness, my purse!) ;-) *pun intended*

[maverickNL 0]

great i thrust on realism?

and how bout a ASk-21???

this is after the f -16 the best idea in my opinion:P

if nessesary i could provide pictures (if i can find these planes on my soaring field )

maverick

[Iron.Eagle 0]

an f-16 on a soaring field?

[ae_timmy 3]

Great idea! but I have 1 thing that has been bugging me with the DG in FSX, so maybe you guys can do it properly with these gliders.

The problem I have is that the DG in FSX does not have a corrected vertical speed indicator (vsi), which makes it less realistic. In most gliders (at least all the ones i flew in) the vsi has been hooked up to the dynamic pressure as well. This way your vsi won't start beeping like crazy when you pull yourself out of a dive for instance. Thus the vsi basically becomes an indicator of what the air is doing around you, in stead of actually indicating the vertical speed of the aircraft.

Now I would personally really like to see something similar in FSX, but I don't know if it's possible, that would depend on the way FSX handles the physical parameters during flight and the possibilities for programming such stuff.

Grtz Tim.

[Timmey 0]

Guys, that is a great idea, but in my opinion FSX isn't a good base for gliders. I have flown the DG at the Microsoft promo at the FS Konferenz. I must say it's very unrealistic. The towplane flies always straight out. So it isn't possible to get high alt's in towing, because you are miles away from your field. And thermal circling is soo unrealistic. The thermals have a radius where you can circle a 737 :wink: . The thermals are too constant and too strong. I'm a RL glider pilot and I want to see you sitting in a real glider wondering why there isn't any big lift in the whole air, while other planes were going up...

But if Aerosoft is able to change the weather model, I will think of buying FSX, too :wink:

The ONLY thing where FSX is best, is graphics. FSX looks so cool, but if you haven't the best hardware it even isn't possible...

just my 2 cents...

[Lennart B. 6]

Nice Idea, a field that was never paid much attention on by payware companies.

You can change the tow glider, I know someone who did it allready....

[maverickNL 0]

Guys, that is a great idea, but in my opinion FSX isn't a good base for gliders. I have flown the DG at the Microsoft promo at the FS Konferenz. I must say it's very unrealistic. The towplane flies always straight out. So it isn't possible to get high alt's in towing, because you are miles away from your field. And thermal circling is soo unrealistic. The thermals have a radius where you can circle a 737 :wink: . The thermals are too constant and too strong. I'm a RL glider pilot and I want to see you sitting in a real glider wondering why there isn't any big lift in the whole air, while other planes were going up...

But if Aerosoft is able to change the weather model, I will think of buying FSX, too :wink:

The ONLY thing where FSX is best, is graphics. FSX looks so cool, but if you haven't the best hardware it even isn't possible...

just my 2 cents...

agreed iam an RL glider pilot aswell:P .

and u cant even use the erm disturbers properly

mav

[ChrisB 11]

Hold short, Timmey and Maverick... where are you guys flying? I learned at Kingsfield on Cyprus and thermals were indeed tight as a ducks wotsits... When I moved to England it was as if the whole sky consisted of lift in comparison. Thermals over SE England were BIG enough for a 747 most of the time and climb was easy at twenty degrees of bank. OK, when they were around, that is. In the Cypriot thermals being cored meant that you had at least 60 degrees of bank and the stick in your lap.

If you do the Alpine soaring competition in FSX you'll get some tight thermals too - AND with the typical mainland Europe gentle bump as you enter. A RW Cyprus thermal would put you "one wing up" almost immediately - a darned nuisance on downwind, I'll have you know. Downwind and level with the bus (i.e. at the end of landing roll if you followed circuit) I once picked up a hot thermal. Bl#*@y red hot if you ask me. Just levelling the wings had me 200 feet higher so I was now well out of pattern. I "went for it" and got my silver height off that thermal - just two minutes later (that's what it felt like - and the needle was bent on the 10 up stop on the vario) I was at 6000+ and as I was carrying an active baro I got the award and still have the proof (no "war story" here). The curve on the baro line is almost backwards. The CFI told me after that I was circling in about the width of two runways (well, including the taxiways).

It weren't a thermal, it were a bubble and ended with me in a flat spin - inverted. The other gliders that day saw me "Doing the Saturn 5" and tried to "get some of that"... they were lucky to even land - I took it up with me...

The FSX thermals do come in tight too - try the alps. Then fly over Oz and you'll get thermals a couple of minutes wide (it seems :wink:).

The only thing I miss is FS-generated ridge lift - or rather weather controlled. The only place you get ridge or wave is in the Alpine mission. If you care to, I guess it's possible to edit the FSX default alpine soaring mission - that way you'll find out how the wave lift is generated and you can copy the technique. Likewise, if FSX has different sized thermals, there must be a value somewhere which defines radius and lift values. Come on you editors...

As for audio varios, the only time I ever had one was in the Pilatus P4 and as I was aerobatic I turned the darned thing off I also went instruments in that flight - I was taken into a cloud by a strongish thermal and held the turn for about five - six hundred feet in cloud before exiting.

And as for the tow plane not turning - the Emma Field plane in FS9 does, so it's only a matter of time before someone manages to sort out the FSX. And if you want some "Fun", take an air tow launch out of Innsbruck... :shock:

The Condor glider sim is better in the math of gliding, but I do rather find the scenery a lot less attractive and the price is a bit too much for Mister Man in the Street.

[maverickNL 0]

well where you are flying that sort of thing can happen. but where i fly EHTL ( terlet holland) a big thermal is kinda rare. you will need to vly at lest 45 degree bank turns and the biggest thermal ive been in was a 4 m/s one.

mav

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Guys, that is a great idea, but in my opinion FSX isn't a good base for gliders. I have flown the DG at the Microsoft promo at the FS Konferenz. I must say it's very unrealistic. The towplane flies always straight out. So it isn't possible to get high alt's in towing, because you are miles away from your field. And thermal circling is soo unrealistic. The thermals have a radius where you can circle a 737 :wink: . The thermals are too constant and too strong. I'm a RL glider pilot and I want to see you sitting in a real glider wondering why there isn't any big lift in the whole air, while other planes were going up...

But if Aerosoft is able to change the weather model, I will think of buying FSX, too :wink:

The ONLY thing where FSX is best, is graphics. FSX looks so cool, but if you haven't the best hardware it even isn't possible...

just my 2 cents...

I just do not agree.

The tow plane is indeed a bit silly but there are some tweaks for that available (also for the incorrect speed). As a somebody with just 20 hours in a glider I do not say I am an expert, but the thermals and ridge lift seem rather good to me. Just and hour ago I was trying to find a thermal that turned out to be not big enough for a sparrow.

Think it also depends a lot on where your fly. Above some parts of France I have 'seen' thermals that you could fly in a Concorde. Some UK pilots that were flying kept banking like crazy while we were almost level and going up a lot faster. They were used to much more localized thermals.

Personally I was VERY impressed by the thermal model in FSX, never seen any better in any sim. Is it real? No of course not, glider flying is a matter of feeling your way around. But it is great fun.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Guys, that is a great idea, but in my opinion FSX isn't a good base for gliders. I have flown the DG at the Microsoft promo at the FS Konferenz. I must say it's very unrealistic. The towplane flies always straight out. So it isn't possible to get high alt's in towing, because you are miles away from your field. And thermal circling is soo unrealistic. The thermals have a radius where you can circle a 737 :wink: . The thermals are too constant and too strong. I'm a RL glider pilot and I want to see you sitting in a real glider wondering why there isn't any big lift in the whole air, while other planes were going up...

But if Aerosoft is able to change the weather model, I will think of buying FSX, too :wink:

The ONLY thing where FSX is best, is graphics. FSX looks so cool, but if you haven't the best hardware it even isn't possible...

just my 2 cents...

By the way, the last flight I done was a towed start up to 7500 feet in an almost straight line. Cause that is were the lift was. In a more restricted airspace that would be hard but in many parts of the world that is not abnormal.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

well where you are flying that sort of thing can happen. but where i fly EHTL ( terlet holland) a big thermal is kinda rare. you will need to vly at lest 45 degree bank turns and the biggest thermal ive been in was a 4 m/s one.

mav

You really need to go abroad. I know EHTL pretty well and I know they do some mean gliders flying there. But the local conditions are just very limiting compared to other locations.

Being Dutch I am allowed to comment. Great country, but not ideal for gliders.

[Timmey 0]

If I get it right you made a tow up to 2250m???

And yes, it is a matter of feeling, and i felt at the FS Konferenz that FSX isn't a good base for glider flying. If I would be able to do the best soaring sim ever, I would merge the graphics of FSX with the functionality, the Onlinefun, the planes, the thermal model, the flight model and the frame-rate-friendlieness of Condor. That's the best soaringsim on the market! Have you ever try him Mathjis?

@Maverick, do you fly in Terlet? I know sb. called Thy Bongers, do you know him? We met together last year here in Germany...with his mosquito b!

[J.Schweigler 203]

Condor was developed to simulate just gliders, and nothing else.

FSX has the problem, that it has to simulate all, from a Kite to a A380.

It is MUCH MORE COMPLEX then any other sim, you have ever seen.

Because of that you have much more possibillities, then in any other sim.

The Graphics are wonderful and the thermals are real for some aereas.

Sure, in the netherlands, or most parts of gGermany they arent, but we can change them!

And what do you want? A program, with that you can practise gliding, or a Program with that you can have great fun?

For the first one you need a glider, or a full flight simulator, but no Home PC!! Thats impossible.

And gliding in FSX is GREAT FUN!!

Joachim Schweigler

[maverickNL 0]

you need to feel thermals in ya butt:P to fly them correctly

[ChrisB 11]

Now THAT I will agree with 100%

In fact you need that butt feel anyway, so that goes for all FS sim flight.

[J.Schweigler 203]

you need that feeling in all type of aircraft, and no homesim can bring it

[Timmey 0]

Condor was developed to simulate just gliders, and nothing else.

That is enough for me, because they made it PERFECT! You can cut out the "just"...

FSX has the problem, that it has to simulate all, from a Kite to a A380.

Yes, so there is no deep simulation of all! There are always light versions, for people who haven't flown in RL. For those it's really impressing! But in RL you wouldn't be able to find any thermal!!! And you aren't able to fly any B737! For B737 pilots, there is the PMDG one! I'm very proud that I'm able to fly her, but in my opinion I wouldn't be able to fly in RL a 737! For that, you would need a sim similar to the Full Flight sims.

I only want to say that FSX is a good base for deep airliner system simulation! A VERY good base!

But it isn't a good base for glider flying! For flying, where you depend on your personal skill and your feelings. For those, who haven't ever fly a glider, it must be impressing to stay up in the air, but in RL it's very hard!

You can learn all systems of a PMDG, it's a matter of time until you are able to fly her, but to get the right feelings for a sport like soaring, you need to fly in RL or a very good sim! And that's Condor for me to fly gliders on my PC. It's as hard as to fly in RL and it makes you feel sitting in a glider, and not in a machine! It is fun, yeah, but REALISTIC fun, and not the fun, where you fly in an FSX thermal: "hey, I can fly a glider in a thermal!!!"....

And what do you want? A program, with that you can practise gliding, or a Program with that you can have great fun?

Practising gliding, IS the real fun of gliding....

Please Aerosoft, for those not flying in RL, develop the Discus and all the other nice gliders. But If you want to fly a glider with the FEELINGS of an RL glider, fly Condor or RL....

MY opinion....

[J.Schweigler 203]

Timmey, I am a RL Pilot too, and I own Condor too.

It is a very good sim, but you CAN'T practise soaring with it. That is impossible.

In RL you have to feel, what you do.

But that isn't the matter of that thread.

fact is: you can't practise flying with any Homesim you can buy.

Sure, there are several sims for several zone of aviation. But all together they have NOT the capabillyties to practise flying, excepting a few Sims for model airplanes, wich are REALY good!

But what it is all about here???

MSFS, Condor, XPlane, Lockon, and so on are ALL designet to have fun.

Fun as real as it gets!

We wants to design a Glider for MSFS X as Real as it gets.

And I think it will be very real!

Just look what is possible! What many Add on devs made, what MS never could do!

We have a great base with FSX, and we will do our best to make the best!

Best regards

Joachim

[Timmey 0]

Please, tell me (i couldn't test it at FSK), is ridge and wave flying more realistic in FSX than in Condor?

I only wanted to say, that in the moment FSX is a good base for Airliner simulation, but not for soaring!!!

Ok, If you are able to get the thermals in FSX work more realistic (and not every thermal from the ground to the top with static climb!!!), the towplane flying under the clouds and the flightmodel more realistic (yes, you have to admit, that in condor you are able to nearly "feel" the thermal! You know, if there is a lot of downwind (i hope it is the right translation for "saufen :wink: ") there mostly have to be a thermal near you, like RL.

THEN I would think of switching from Condor to FSX...

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Please, tell me (i couldn't test it at FSK), is ridge and wave flying more realistic in FSX than in Condor?

I only wanted to say, that in the moment FSX is a good base for Airliner simulation, but not for soaring!!!

Ok, If you are able to get the thermals in FSX work more realistic (and not every thermal from the ground to the top with static climb!!!), the towplane flying under the clouds and the flightmodel more realistic (yes, you have to admit, that in condor you are able to nearly "feel" the thermal! You know, if there is a lot of downwind (i hope it is the right translation for "saufen :wink: ") there mostly have to be a thermal near you, like RL.

THEN I would think of switching from Condor to FSX...

I believe it is probably more realistic in Condor. But Condor is of course a specialized sim and not important enough for me to do add-ons for. The project we are doing will increase the level of realism of gliding in FSX. I do have Condor installed here and I like the flight model. But the graphics are just not up to modern standard for this product to reach a good market share. I believe we can create a very good product, but probably not one for you.