SAM - quo vadis?

[OEAMJ 1]

Can I just ask where the SAM plugin is heading? I understand that no further features can be expected but what about aircraft configurations and general support? Is the program completely abandoned? 

 

Thanks

[Heinz Flichtbeil 1609]

Hello,

SAM3 is from Stairport and many infos and deeper Support you also find on the developer page.here:

 

https://stairportscenerieshelp.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/77000001349

 

But if you have questions, here in our Forum are many users who also can help I think.

 

Greets Heinz

[OEAMJ 1]

Am 12.4.2023 um 10:34 schrieb Heinz Flichtbeil:

But if you have questions, here in our Forum are many users who also can help I think.

 

Grüß dich Heinz,

 

meine Frage ist bloß an die Developer gerichtet: nämlich ob dieses Projekt (AM und alle, vor allem payware, extensions) von ihrer Seite noch fortgeführt wird, oder intern beendet wurde.

 

Danke und LG

[packman2002 0]

is the SAM application abandoned ? 

[Willhelm 1]

After 3 years of not solving the existing SAM problems (XP12 compatibility made basically in 5 minutes by chreate a change log), Marten finally officially announced on Discord last week, that he will not continue SAM development. SAM is now basically useless plugin, not compatible with Better Pushback, DataRefTool, XPUIPC and other plugins. In addition causing CTD in approach phase, when it meddle with destination airport in exactly same moment when XPL engine doing this. Marten now will try to scam MSFS users via his new FSS (flightsim-studio.com) company. In XPL remain a huge mess after him, as SAM despite being propietal software not properly maintained for years somehow become "etalon" of good payware scenery. I think that now Aerosoft and ORBX whose paid sceneries are heavy dependant on SAM plugin, should come with some solution perhaps in joint effort, so at least existing assets and paid sceneries not end as useless. I personally slowly remake owned paid sceneries from SAM to XP12 default animated jetways and replace VDGS SAM assets with AutoGate assets as Autogate as opensource plugin at least recently get XP12 update which is functional and as far as I know do not cause CTD or incompatibility issues with my other plugins. I even wrote FWL script so LR jetways work for me automatically as SAM assets - based on Beacon state. Users not skilled in WED probably need to ask to return money for product which not work as advertised, or wait until somebody will come with some successor of SAM. Mess is really deep - for exemple if you buy EGPH from ORBX - this scenery is distributed with SAM2 assets, but ORBX Central install SAM3 version of plugin. SAM2 assets are not compatible with SAM3 plugin. Two months ago I filled ticket, ORBX closed it after 6 weeks as solved. Nothing changed. So This week I replaced EGPH´s SAM Jetways for XP12 animated jetways, wrote FWL script to add automatical function, replaced SAM VDGS´s for AutoGate assets, repaired XP12 incompatibilities of the scenery, mistakes in Parking elements, add missing taxiways. It cost me one working day, but at least i have working scenery for which I paid. Unfortunatelly I have feeling that developers of paid sceneries never created single valid gateway scenery, do not watched Jan Vogel´s WED tutorial videos, and do not used WED validation function at all. Biggest dissapointment for me was LSZH from Aerosoft which was announced as XP12 compatible. WED validation showing 80+ errors, no single parking is where should be, misalignent 4m or 10° are obviously not a big issue for developer, manula for XP11 version provided not valid in XP12 and is confusing, Jetways and VDGS not working. Generally this scenery is in such mess, that contrary to ORBX EGPH, I do not want to spend my time on repairs of 47,19AUD scenery, because this can not be repaired DIY style in one day.

 

Concerning paid modules of SAM - I spend more then hundred bucks for basically nothing. No single module worked asi intended. Can not understand that Aerosoft and org store still sell it even now when developer clearly not provide any support and not solving any issues of these modules. (Agressive and illogical overtaking over GPU dataref etc.)

 

If somebody is interested in reworking his bought airports with SAM to XP12 jetways, already have FlyWithLuaNG+ for XP12 plugin and want automated function actuated by beacon switch, instead of actuating jetway via ground menu (Shift+G and Toggle Jetway connection), can download Toggle_XP12jetways.zip from my webpage: http://willhelm.info/x-plane-12

[FlyAgi 398]

Regarding LSZH: Is there anything aside from misaligned ramp starts that is wrong with the airport? The ramp positions issue was reported and will be fixed at one point but if there are further issues our testing did not catch, please report them as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Willhelm 1]

1 hour ago, FlyAgi said:

Regarding LSZH: Is there anything aside from misaligned ramp starts that is wrong with the airport? The ramp positions issue was reported and will be fixed at one point but if there are further issues our testing did not catch, please report them as well.

 

WED - File validate (Ctrl+Shift+V) and resolve scenery technical problems would be a good start to have XP12 valid scenery.

- Parking misalignment - position and angles

- Parking Overlaping - check in WED "Taxi routes" mod - siluettes of aircrafts never should overlap - this cause problem of XPL AI traffic or Traffic Global plugin. Can not hint exact parking spots as this issue I already repair on my scenery.

- Parking definitions - more then couple of parkings have wrong "Ramp Start Type" definition - should be Gate or Tie-Down, definetly not Misc.

- Manual - installation section is clearly for XP11 with old XP11 "three folders" version and old names. Not a big issue for ORBX Direct users as myself, but reading manual to check scenery features and possibilities and find clearly outdated text is very confusing.

- During rain whole area is one huge black mirror - so reflexive, that taxilines are not visible. Nut sure if this scenery or LR problem, but LSZH scenery is only airport where I experience this strange issue during rain. Remind me MisterX water overlay from XP11 era (Hakodate etc.) but with 4 times higher effect. Makes taxiing during rain very hard and unrealistic.

- Please consider removing SAM dependency by replacing SAM assets. If you at least repair mistakes stated in Validate report, I will replace it myself and send you modified dsf and apt back so you can include it as an option for users. I can imagine that some people who using SAM plugin as the only plugin are not influence by its incompatibility problems and if they have enough RAM and fly legs under 1h50min they theoretically can have quite nice chance to not even experince CTD caused by SAM plugin. I still have some hope that some skilled programmer will be able to reverse engineer from SAM manual and objects animation datarefs at least basic and original function of SAM plugin and some replacement will be created to save some nice assets of MisterX and other developers who made custom SAM driven assets.

[FlyAgi 398]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

WED - File validate (Ctrl+Shift+V) and resolve scenery technical problems would be a good start to have XP12 valid scenery.

 

The scenery is a valid XP12 scenery, WED reports some warnings and most of the have been solved internally already - anyway, this is not really an issue and this is not rendering it an 'invalid XP12 scenery'.

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

- Parking Overlaping - check in WED "Taxi routes" mod - siluettes of aircrafts never should overlap - this cause problem of XPL AI traffic or Traffic Global plugin. Can not hint exact parking spots as this issue I already repair on my scenery.

 

Overlapping parkings are not necessarily an issue if those are configured correctly. For realism we have to do this and we did this for years because the real world stands of the airport are in fact overlapping too and we can't just drop most parkings for avoiding overlapping. If configurations are messed up I will fix them for sure but I won't remove parking spots that have to be there just because of overlapping.

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

- Parking definitions - more then couple of parkings have wrong "Ramp Start Type" definition - should be Gate or Tie-Down, definetly not Misc.

 

That's one of those configuration settings one can use to have a ramp present without having stattic or AI traffic aircraft using those parking, it's one possible solution to have parkings overlapping without causing issues.

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

- Manual - installation section is clearly for XP11 with old XP11 "three folders" version and old names. Not a big issue for ORBX Direct users as myself, but reading manual to check scenery features and possibilities and find clearly outdated text is very confusing.

 

The manual is the old XP11 manual, we did not create new ones because those are actually not needed at all as installation is done by Aerosoft One or other installers these days - anyway, this is not affecting the airport itself and a decision made by project management.

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

- During rain whole area is one huge black mirror - so reflexive, that taxilines are not visible. Nut sure if this scenery or LR problem, but LSZH scenery is only airport where I experience this strange issue during rain. Remind me MisterX water overlay from XP11 era (Hakodate etc.) but with 4 times higher effect. Makes taxiing during rain very hard and unrealistic.

 

It should not be like that but I will check if I can reproduce this, in out testing this was fine and I did not see any issue when adjusting the effects. Do you mabe have a screenshot to share with me so I can see if something is wrong?

 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

Please consider removing SAM dependency by replacing SAM assets.

 

That's out of scope currently - we can't just replace custom made scenery jetways with generic white ones from the XP library. Anyway, the airport should work without SAM installed, if this does not work right (loading issues or signs showing up telling you to install latest SAM) please use my Fallback Library to solve this for now.

 

As far as I get this SAM is still working fine in XP12 aside from the crash on sim closing and a compatibility issue with DataRefTool (which is not necessary to be installed for normal simulator use) and it should not cause any RAM issues even on longer flights (never heard of something like this). Both of these issues mainly affect developers who are starting and closing the sim often for testing their stuff and also need a DataRef tool but SAM should not ruin normal users' experience completely. For normal users I recommend to remove DataRef Tool for now and for developers remove SAM instead (both can be done by simply moving the plugins to a "plugins disabled" folder and then activate and deactivate them as needed, this is how I deal with the situation myself).

 

Finally, the SAM situation is currently being investigated by project management and I have some hopes there will be a solution for this at some point in time.

 

 

Anyway, thanky you for your feedback, I will take this into account for the next LSZH update and fix things as needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Willhelm 1]

Thanks for extensive feedback.

My apologize, that I drag LSZH issues to SAM topic. I can see, that lot of my LSZH issues are different developer views, I understand your logic behind some decisions now, and even if I do not agree in many cases, as I personally preffer other solutions, I can respect yours.

- WED reports on autogen roads can be considered minor, as this is something what is quite far away from airport. Short Taxi Routes hoever really can cause a XP12 troubles. I had to adjust all my XP11 sceneries as for example Traffic Global logic have problems with some short Taxi Routes in XP12 which did not have in XP11.

- Overlapping parkings - i fully get you as I had exactly same approach to this problem in my first sceneries for XP11, until I bought WT3 and later Traffic Global and found that less is sometimes more. There is a reason why Julian and his team not validate gateway scenery with overlapping parking.

- Parkings, yes this can be mess and developer nightmare sometimes, I´m using Traffic Global personaly and forgetting that XP12 AI, World Traffic and perhaps some other traffic solutions can behave differently. Properly tuned Gate or Tie-Down and TG do not need Misc. category of Parking place. Again different developer approach.

- Manual - I get you, I´m probably last simpilot who read them. It is relict of 90´s and it is boring and time consuming work to write them, espetially if you know, that 99% of users not even open them.

- Water effect "Black Mirror" - It is funny, but I can not reproduce this myself. It happen to me twice - real time, real weather, both times LSZH as destination after aprox 2,5h long flight. When I try to set up same manual weather condition as were those both days according historical weather, and start flight on LSZH, water effect is always fine. So this must be some glitch caused by very rare chain of precondition to be triggered. If this happen to me again i will try to make screenshot and catch as many details about flight and weather condition as possible.

- Fallback library - thanks nice workaround.

I bought LSZH via ORBX Direct - ORBX state this scenery as SAM compatible and current version is 2.0.8, I noticed that Aerosoft in scenery description do not mention SAM at all, but have point: "Gates A44, A47, A48, A49, A55 with animated Jetways (installed AutoGate Version is needed)"

Funny as on these parking spots I have SAM assets. I found Autogate Assets in the scenery, but ORBX Direct do not have any configuration concerning SAM/AutoGate assets, no hint in manual, I did not find any secondary *.dsf file to switch scenery. I replaced SAM jetway on A44 for included AutoGate jetway myself in WED. Fits well, work, but connect jetway to cental axis of the plane. I Do now know why. I never had problem like this with JustSim or other AutoGate assets. So I put on my A44 default XP12 animated jetway - It not 100% fit into the Terminal - it is few dm short in heigh, but works fine. You can compare on included screen. LR asset in front wit Air Malta, SAM back with SWISS, sorry for fog and bad weather - I tried to reproduce "Black Mirror" phenomenon in same time.

 

Please login to display this image.

[FlyAgi 398]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

My apologize, that I drag LSZH issues to SAM topic.

 

I asked for that, so it's my fault.

 

In the meantime I have done the work an fixed most issues at LSZH but I think the old Airport description mentioning Autogate stuff and so on in the stores has to be changed, I will try to care for that too.

 

Traffic Global worked fine fore me with overlapping ramps and the only reason I see for not allowing this in gateway scenery is XP standard AI traffic, which by my experience is borked anyway, not respecting ramp configurations or taxi route directions - I tried mutliple times to get this right but the system simply does not respect my configurations so I stopped messing with this as other AI systems seem to work properly and for getting these things right in the future I got Traffic Global now myself and always test and optimize for this (it's really a great testing tool for airport functionality).

 

I think your 'black mirror' issue can be caused by XP's PBR system and it's use of reflection maps - those are updated every so often but not that often so if you have a pretty dark reflection mup in use that can cause way too dark lighting conditions in general and the everything reflective is affected the most and you might get very dark rainy surfaces on the ground - there is nothing we can do about this but not using reflections at all I think.

 

BTW: LSZH version 2.0.8 is the latest XP11 version, the XP12 version is currently 1.0.1 and I'm preparing now for version 1.0.2 with a lot of functionality changes:

• Fixed ramp start positions
• Fixed SAM jetways, VDGS and marshaller positions
• Added more ramp starts
• Aligned center line taxi lights to match taxi markings
• Added missing center line taxi lights
• Reworked tyre marks
• Reworked SAM configuration
• Added new SAM fallback library (now uses invisible placeholders, removed 'install SAM' signs)
• Reworked taxi routes (now following the ground markings as possible, fixed short segments)

For technical reasons there will be two short segments messages still appear on WED export because of the ground routes need to be connected to the taxi routes and where both networks connect this sometimes causes short segments but this should not destroy the traffic flow (that worked nicely for me with Traffic Global).

 

 

BTW: The update won't have any misc type ramp starts but gate or tie-down instead, used another configuration tweak to not spawn static or AI aircraft on these ramps.

 

 

 

 

[FlyAgi 398]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Willhelm:

I replaced SAM jetway on A44 for included AutoGate jetway myself in WED. Fits well, work, but connect jetway to cental axis of the plane.

 

So you are now using a SAM jetway instead of an autogate asset? Actually, the airport should not include any autogate assets but only SAM ones - anyway, SAM jetways need a configuration file (sam.xml) for the airport to specify the size of the jetway objects, SAM needs to know some distances to connect properly.

 

If it's the other way around and you want to use an autogate asset I don't know how that works anymore because it's been very long time since I last used these jetways in a scenery.