[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Guys, some of you are all talking about PreparD3, XP-10 as the next great sim....and maybe they will be BUT is PreparD3 or XP-10 a finished product...naaaaaa... there will be patches and upgrades released all the time to make it better.

Flight is the same, I see international airports in Flight, I see roads in Flight, MS did nothing less then PreparD3 or Laminar, they released an unfinished product to be upgraded with patches and upgrades.....I have Crysis 2, a BIG patch including a DX11 upgrade was released for this game not that long after the game was released.....

Paul, you'r complaining about the water in Flight....same as FSX is it not, what's stopping MS to make the water look better after a patch or 2 or maybe three in Flight, forget about a patch for FSX, what about the mountain's texture or the look of the city, you did not comment on it, can you buy the same scenery from Orbx to be use with FSX or PreparD3...yes you can but at what cost, and if you buy them for FSX don't forget to buy the required new liscense (or what ever you need) to have them work with PreparD3.

To be fair, there is some stuff I don't like in Flight scenery wise as you can see below...but guess what...same with FSX.

Flight is not for the hardcore like me or other in its current state but I'm sure it will be there sooner than later.

I did not buy XP-10, I do not like the "plausible" world of XP-10 and the roads to nowhere

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Nice to see this opinion thrown out. First time this year I have agreed with Alain?

Life can be great when you are a big fish in a small pond. Then some will not accept being a smaller fish in a much larger pond. Darn egos seem to get in the way...

Are you sure it's only the first time this year.......you'r probably right as we are only 2 months in....

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Agreed, but what if you can buy other missions after the initial release, including the planes for it.

Alaska as a DLC will contain some missions with other planes as Hawaii does for X amount of money, ok so what can you do after you played them all....well, MS can release other missions as a DLC between Hawaii and Alaska for example. let say cargo or peoples transportations including some danger to it.....the area to fly over can't be resold to you but new missions can, that's the beauty of it, you can keep the platform alive, is it not what 3PD did with FSX?

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

I think now you are thinking too much from the perspective of a Hardcore Simmer. While I can understand why they choose Alaska I have a really hard time to imagine how they should sell Texas to a gamer. Especially not under their current leader who thought 20.000 airports on the world were crazy.

That was just a guess from me, 3.79 million square miles is the size of the United States, MS may release the West coast, Central or the East coast of the United State in one DLC as they will be doing for Alaska, it does not have to be state by state...Alaska is a pretty big part of the US at 656,425 square miles, and the release from MS will cover 1.2 millions square miles....does that make sense to you?

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Alaska look stunning if you ask me....

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Karsten, I should have been more precised in my earlier post.

What I mean by locked is this, MS started with FSX to build Flight, they are relasing small area only because they can't build the whole Flight's world as good as Hawaii in 2 or 3 years upgrading the engine at the same time.

Now (if the runour is true) they will release Alaska, if Alaska is as good as Hawaii details wise with good missions and new planes a lot of peoples will download it.

I can't see MS releasing the state of Texas if California, Arizona and new Mexico are not released first, how dumb will that be, or they may release the state of Florida and the Bahamas next so we can fly between them, who knows....

As far as 3PD and MS I can tell you for sure that the problem between them (some of them) is deeper, one of them tried to be the main player in this project, there is some peoples who can't accept to be told what to do.

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

We will not however create add-ons like the Maule that sells for $15 and is castrated, lol.

Well, that's a business decision on your part, good or bad time will tell, see, one can say that any US Cities X without night texture is a castrated City.

Take me for example, I have a business (selling tattoo equipment for permanent make-up), about 7 to 8 years ago a company from Germany came in the US to show me a new machine, after looking at it as saw great potential for them and their machine BUT they had to modify someof the not so good stuff on their equipment, they did take my advice and the rest is history,

That machine is selling in the $4,500.00 range and they are selling them like hot cakes all over the world, it took time for the hard core user (nurses, esthetician and others) of the regular machine to get on board with the new one, change is always hard, some benefits on the new machine was the noise reduction, less complicated to operate and the look is a lot better.

So, my point is that a castrated Maule may not be the best solution for the hardcore simmers right now but it can always be modify with patch or update if the demand is there, the other side of the coin is like the US cities X, how many more cities will you sell if they had night texture, I myself would have bought all of them if I could have fly over them at night.

By the way, I always considered you as a friend also.

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

But that means an add-ons for Alaska ($20), the Hawaii ($20) and an airliner (make that $40) as well. And then the only thing you can do is fly between those two locations. For $80. Without ATC or AI Traffic.

I don't say it will be impossible but I see a lot of bears on the route. If the $15 Maule is how they see add-on content things look very bleak indeed. Not even the AP works there. My prediction is that we'll get a part of Alaska just as Hawaii with some floater aircraft that is as simplified as the Maule.

Beside newbies or students with no $$ who's flying FSX default? I have spent in the $1,000.00 just to enhanced FSX because FSX default does not look like 3PD sceneries.

MS is doing what 3PD are doing right now, selling an enhanced FSX called Flight, they improved a lot of stuff in it, they offload the CPU to the GPU just to take this one.

You are right about Flight been simplify compare to FSX comparing planes from both platforms, on the other hand a lot of hardcore simmers are reporting better "as real as it get" handeling planes in Flight, like I said, if there is enough demand for a complex airplane MS would be stupid not to do it, same for your company, your will not make an airport if you know that airport will not sale due to a lack of interest from your customers, that is why we see polls about what we would like to see next from Aerosoft or other companies.

I see Flight as XP-10 right not (I'm not comparing the whole world between both), XP-10 as a lot to improve as Flight does, patch, enhancement been downloaded from time to time to make the platform better, so who know we may see patch for airplanes from MS if they add AI...

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Journey to Alaska Pack, scroll down.....

http://majornelson.c...ws-phone-games/

http://www.netstate....k_geography.htm

Four seasons......I can't wait to see what they have done with Alaska......

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Hi! Mathijs, I'm just pointing out what I see, my point is that peoples think that Flight is something brand new out of the box, will this be used in the future?

As I said in other post on other forums Flight contain more, MS did not delete the whole FSX world, they just locked it up for us right now, you know as good as I do that there is no way 3PD (some of them) were involved with MS for well over 1 1/2 year just for Hawaii, and you also know that MS did not wake up one morning and locked 3PD out of Flight for no good reason, the problem is deeper than that, some 3PD may not have liked to be told what part to make or how this will work, what do you think?

I see Flight as a baby right now, MS will make it grow if WE are welling to be a part of it, DLC sales will be the baby's food.

See, MS is not doing anything that was or is not done by 3PD right now, they are selling us the world in parts, some hard core simmers are writing post like "I fly over Orbx's scenery only" or "I buy Aerosoft's airport only"...as far as I know Orbx does not cover the whole world or Aerosoft does not make all the airports we have in FSX, so hardcore simmers don't really care if they have the whole world in FSX, so if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander right?

Hawaii may not be for everybody, I mean not everybody like to fly over Hawaii and I can agree with that but MS had to start somewhere....

Again, if the sale of DLC are good or great I think MS will connect the dots faster (scenery, AI, airliners +++), if the next part released by MS is Alaska ( as I think it will) we may see airliners taking off from Hawaii ---> Alaska or from Alaska ----> Hawaii....or maybe not.

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

Karsten, what I am trying to say is that MS started with FSX, they are implementing Flight and will release other area, small part at the time, where do you think they got their idea from...about walking around the plane....where did you see that before...

Some 3PD developers may have not like the idea of been told where part (area) and what to make for Flight....this is a part of the problem beside big publishing houses like Aerosoft, the way MS is doing business now is not attractive to them.

I agree with what you posted here...

You have to see what flight really is! It is a TINY project, that reused an old code base, to test a new business model.

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

This kind of assumes the core is even finished (whatever that means, in this context) which is an open question.

For instance, is the XP10 core "finished?"

+1, I don't know why peoples are not getting it.....sigh

@ Karsten, do you really think that MS deleted everything from FSX just to keep Hawaii.....seriously....why did I say all there but locked...think about it for a sec., they are implementing Flight as XP-10 is been implemented or any other platform, adding stuff and making sure what ever they will add will work as good as possible...again, exactly like XP-10 is doing.

just think about this for a sec., MS was working with 3PD developers before shutting them down so from there what were the 3PD developers working on...Hawaii only....naaaaaa....MS can do that by themself right, so they had to work on something else...other regions maybe?

They were talking with PMDG, what for....to make a big tube to fly around Hawaii only...again naaaaaaaa.

So if you take a step back and look at the whole situation, what does make sense to you knowing that big house 3PD like Orbx were involved with MS before been shut down.....Hawaii only?

Trust me on this one, MS did not shut down 3PD just because they had nothing better to do, the problem with 3PD developers is deeper.

Hawaii is just the starting point, I'm not saying that MS will have all kind of DLC including North America in the next month or two but are we not buying small part of the world as of now for FSX, Antartica just to take this one, or airport from 3PD.....I know FSX is the whole world....if you ask me I like the idea that I can buy only places where I like to fly....some peoples are flying over Orbx scenery only, as far as I know Orbx does not cover the entire world.....

As for my post # 94..... it's right on target.

[The Big MS Flight Topic]

I have Flight and the Hawaiian pack, I still use FSX, I can tell you right now that Flight is not a complete sim for hardcore simmers. On the other hand I can't imagine Orbx (and other devs) spending over a year 1/2 working with MS just for Hawaii, I mean seriously....how many 3PD does it take to cover Hawaii with their sceneries, how many 3PD does it take to make all airports in Hawaii.....do you see where I'm going with this?? Everything is there, locked but there...

Here is (below) a modified post I made on Avsim's forum...

Quote:...Here is my 2 cents about Flight, not everybody is upset at MS and it's not everybody that don't like Flight.

I see two kind of peoples upset at MS....the hardcore simmers who were expecting MS to have everything in Flight and more as FSX does OUT OF THE BOX (can't blame them)........the others are the 3PD (some, not all of them) who were left behind by MS shutting them down and others who will not be able to make addons (freeware or payware) for Flight.

Do you know of a sim with regular or to come updates .....that's right, XP-10 and PreparD3...so if this is good for them can it be the same for Flight.

3PD developers (some of them) are surprised (and scared) to see how many peoples are buying, posting good and fair reviews and comments about Flight, can we blame them, FSX is their bread and butter so if Flight does take off assuming that MS implement (and they will trust me on this one) Flight with what we don't see yet, like AI, car traffic (I see roads in Flight), airliners (I see international airport in Flight) and bigger area, a lot more peoples may slowly drift into Flight, buy more content and neglect FSX (addons wise).

This is only my 2 cents on why some 3PD are scared of Flight....

Be patient peoples.....Prepar3D is making improvements on their sim, XP-10 is also improving their sim....what do you think MS is doing with Flight as we speak....yes you got it....improving it. ...........end of quote.

[US Cities X and XP-10]

Ordered X-Plane 10 and will look into this when time permits, but can't promise anything yet.

Bests,

Sascha

Did time permit anything yet?

[US Cities X and XP-10]

Will Aerosoft make their US citiesX compatible for XP-10 with full night texture?

Thank you.

[X-Plane 10 preview]

A computer gets old if you install new demanding software. If you buy a computer and know how to care for it and are happy with your software you bought for it, in a way, your computer never gets "old". Of course, nothing is eternal. I just had to change my screen because it defaulted on me. And a computer can die. But you can't compare a great platform like FSX with a lot of addons and telling me a new virgin platform without addons (in your case X-Plane 10) will be better than the former sim.

In a sense, it's not so much about what I spent on FSX. The reason is about starting all over again without any addons ready in the market for you to enjoy except those 3 not-so-important airports Mathijs promised. It's like buying a brand new computer without software... To me X-Plane without great addons is simply a void simming platform.

I live near Barcelona, Spain and when I saw the X-Plane 10 screenshots of Barcelona I almost fainted... Barcelona is far from being what is depicted there. The screenshots look like if the city was a huge park full of trees when in reality it's full of concrete buildings... I won't even mention about Barcelona's airport... The streets don't even match close to what it really is. You only need google satelite maps to see that X-plane's "plausible world" is really nothing more than a marketing tool so people may believe it and buy it without seeing in a demo how airports and city scenery are done out of the Seattle area. Thanks to AlpilotX everyone could see shots of other areas of the world. Maybe the only plausable world is in the area of Seattle... Now, the mesh seems correct although I must say that for that I have FS Global. And for clouds and water and beautiful sunsets and sunrises I have REX 2 and Overdrive.

I just bought the PMDG NGX for my new i7-2600, 12 GB of RAM and 3 GB of video computer, and boy, does it fly smooth in the most complex scenery... With the great addons I have for FSX makes FSX something like FS20. I agree that FSX solo is nothing more than a boring stale virgin world (even though it included most of the airports in the world, not like the new X-plane). What you add to a sim is what makes the sim special.

I would have to wait some years to really start enjoying X-plane 10 (if that sim gets some good scenery and good aircraft). But maybe X-plane 10 will soon be "old" before devs make a lot of addons for it when version 11 will launch...and 10 will be "outdated".

I hope you get my point. I am not amused with new virgin simulators, be it X-plane, or Microsoft's flight. What makes a good simulator in my opinion are the ones that have lots of addons. It's simply impossible for any simulator developer to make the whole world great looking, and that's why the community needs good addon makers. And the FSX addon industry is thriving with very good quality stuff. That's why I don't want to change. I'll be ready to change when I see great addons for a simulator that has been tried out and great looking. I don't buy Virgin sims.

Happy landings!

Andrew

I agree with you, what I'm saying is that giving the time for X-plane to mature with good 3RD party addons and it will surpass FSX IMOP, special night lighting, 3D clouds, multithreading, the use of all core from your CPU, slope runway, the use of the GPU over the CPU are some of the stuff FSX does not have and that's what will make XP-10 better after some time.

I also have (just like you) a lot invested in FSX so I guess what's frustrating is to have to restart with a new sim and wait for good addons for it, it's called progress but I do understand your point.

[X-Plane 10 preview]

@ Andrew, I understand one not been welling to buy a new sim. because of the money he already as invested in the sim. he is flying with BUT to me it's like a new computer, here is what I have..

Thermaltake Xaser VI Full Tower

OS: Window 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Motherboard: Gigabyte UD-9..........$700.00

CPU: I7 980x @ 4677.4MHz as of 10/21/2010.........$1,000.00

RAM: Suoer Talent 2004MHz...........$300.00

Timing @ 7-7-6-20 1T

CPU COOLER: Noctua NH-D14........$89.00

PSU: ABS Targan 1300W..................$350.00

SSD OS: Crucial SSD Sata III 128GB.......$250.00

SSD game: OCZ Z-Drive R2 P84 PCI Express 256GB for FSX.....$1,200.00

HARD DRIVE: 1 x 300GB Velociraptor +...........$300.00

3 x 150GB all at 10,000rpm...........$600.00

VIDEO CARD:Zotac GTX 480 AMP! 840/1680/2052........$530.00

I spent over $5,000.00 on this computer, so should I keep it and not buy another one because I've invested to much money in it? Computer (or hardware) are getting better and better, my GTX 480 is better compare to my old GTX 285, so the same way of thinking (for me) can be apply to a new sim, I have a lot of payware scenery addons for FSX, some from Aerosoft some from Orbx, including payware plane so I am one who as invested a lot of money in FSX BUT with time and patches I think XP-10 will be a lot better compare to FSX, 3D clouds and night lighting is already better.

It's an easy choice for me, I'll go with what will give me a better feel of immersion regardless of the money I invested in FSX, same with computer, I'm waiting to see what the Ivy Bridge can do and if my rig is outperformed a lot you'll see me buying the new platform.

Don't get me wrong here, money can be tight for some and they can't afford to start all over again with a new platform or a new sim, I respect that.

[X-Plane 10 preview]

@Andrew, I do not have XP-10 (I am thinking of getting it) but if I am understanding you correctly you are making a comparaison between a mature FSX (6 years old with some bugs still) including Jesus Altuve's tweaks (plus our own fsx.CFG tweaks) and 3rd party developers products against a virgin XP-10 beta demo, am I correct?

[X-Plane 10: US Community Edition]

Hi! Mathijs will your US citiesX be available for XP-10 at one point in time?

[X-Plane 10 preview]

2. Certainly not free, there is a whopping lot of work going into it and that needs to be paid some how. But for some products you will find FSX/Prepar3d/X-Plane 10 installers next year and for some older projects we'll have cross updates.

Can the same be done with your US cities X?

[X-Plane 10 preview]

Alain just saying your ideas are not that wild, the people you discuss them with are. I do read AVSIM I just don't participate. But I do credit you for speaking up about the topic originally, and I do remember my response was a lot of vendors would have nothing to do with.

Ok I got you.

[X-Plane 10 preview]

Alain: your problem isn't that no one believes you, you just seem to make your remarks in the wrong forum, one that's run to the hill with trolls. Sure you may say pipe dream things but they've always been well intentioned. I can't say the same about your biggest proponent who's claim to fame is he once beta tested FSX. The reality is he got an advanced press copy. Beta testing occurs on the Microsoft campus and there are no volunteers. Everyone is paid for beta testing that's just Microsoft's rule. How much?, minimum wage or the equivalent value towards purchases at the Microsoft Employee store where all Microsoft products are 90% off. Oh and they also feed you!

Sorry! this one went right over my head, I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your post?

[X-Plane 10 preview]

Being in Australia it's great to hear the osm data is being used around the globe.

I'm hearing we should be able to Customize the autogen for each region- big opportunities there! Like an automated Orbx!

Re. Airports, once we all get the new World Editor and scenery tools, many will start building their own local airports (sorry, I'm reserving YMML and YMMB :-) ) and then have those layouts conveniently redistributed via updates, so yes, within a few months the default airports should look pretty good!

Thanks for your work Mathijs, it should be a great alliance with xplane!

John at Orbx always said that they were an MS platform developers only.

[X-Plane 10 preview]

Well I am not at liberty to write down all we know, but Flight is most likely heading towards a rather closed simulator that will only accept add-ons that are solved via MS Store. That's something that we as publisher got major problems with. Then look at what they have shown, Hawaii, Hawaii and a bit more Hawaii. In pretty good detail, but if you want this detail for the world you are looking for a few additional harddisks. And have you seen any large aircraft? Any info if existing products are compatible? If it will even cover Europe?

But as we always said we'll look at Flight when it is released. For now we have no SDK, no good information, no nothing.

Thank you very much for your honest answer, I've been saying the same things (and more) since day one about Flight's store, addons and the way it will work but nobody (almost nobody) beleived me......there is a lot of tea drinkers around some forums.....

[X-Plane 10 preview]

It is almost 100% sure that the X-plane 10 version we will deliver (that's not the same as the version Austin will sell himself) will include high end scenery of Paderborn and Nice airport. We are also trying to dress up the the largest airports in Europe a bit (adding the biggest buildings etc) so it looks a lot better then default FSX.

Later in 2012 we hope to have the whole Mega Airport range available for X-Plane 10. That's a tall order but I can assure you that we will work very hard on that. After seeing X-Plane 10 this weekend with the new scenery engine we know that it is the simulator we need at this moment. It has all the flexibility and freedom that we now think MS Flight will lack and it offers a whole new direction.

I will get XP-10 for sure, I think it will be a big success.....since you mentioned Flight in your thread let me get right to the point about your statement I painted in red, there is no way at all you can make a statement like that about MS Flight just by looking at the same pictures and vid. that we all have access to released by MS, so tell me, on what are you basing your statement on to say that you think Flight will lack flexibility and freedom?