Helsinki P3D compatibility

[Kexmert 2]

Compatible or not, I enjoy flying to EFHK in P3D v3.3.

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[sanyok 9]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 5:12 PM, Emanuel Hagen said:

 

Sorry, but this airport is simply not sold as P3Dv3 compatible.

v3 is a totally new sim, just like FS2004 and FSX were different sims. You did not complain when your FS9 addons didn't work in FSX either, did you?
You just can't update old airports forever for compability with new simulators that come to the market some 4 years (!) after the release of a product. It's financially impossible.

 

LM just choose rather bad naming for their sims with regards to customers understanding of what they actually are, but fact is that P3D (v1), P3Dv2 and P3Dv3 are all totally different simulators, just like FS98, FS2004, FSX, Flight, etc.

 

 

 

Ok understand. Problem is, it is advertised at Simmarket as FSX/P3D, meaning 29 out od 30 P3D v3 users will go ahead and pay money for it easily without being cautious for 1 millisecond (for Aerosoft I guess it is not a problem). It should say FSX/P3Dv1/P3Dv2, or, say FSX/P3D, with a big red bold statement in parenthesis: (not P3D v3 compatible).

[Emi 5161]

Well, at the time it was released it was P3D, not P3Dv3.

Besides, it still is P3D compatible. P3D = Prepar3D, not any other of the Prepar3D simulators.

 

We can't just change just the productpages without changing boxes, too, and the latter would mean that we'd have to scrap thousands of boxes and reprint them which would cost a fortune. Not going to happen, sorry.

 

Only thing you can do is saying thank you to LM for choosing bad names for their sims which do not make clear that it's not the same simulator at all. Microsoft did a better job there with FS2004 and FSX, etc.

[Cee-Jaay 13]

Actually on the product page

http://en.shop.aerosoft.com/eshop.php?action=article_detail&s_supplier_aid=12241&s_design=DEFAULT&shopfilter_category=Flight Simulation&s_language=english

states:

"Microsoft Flight Simulator X (SP2, Acceleration Pack or Gold Edition) or Lockheed Martin Prepar3D"
 

and consistent with "Please note that our P3D sceneries and airports are NOT compatible with the P3D - Version 3.3 as long as not stated explicitly on the respective product page!"

 

So on that basis Helsinki is sold as being compatible with P3Dv1.x, P3Dv2.x & P3Dv3.0, 3.1 & 3.2.

 

 

[Emi 5161]

5 minutes ago, Cee-Jaay said:

Actually on the product page

http://en.shop.aerosoft.com/eshop.php?action=article_detail&s_supplier_aid=12241&s_design=DEFAULT&shopfilter_category=Flight Simulation&s_language=english

states:

"Microsoft Flight Simulator X (SP2, Acceleration Pack or Gold Edition) or Lockheed Martin Prepar3D"
 

and consistent with "Please note that our P3D sceneries and airports are NOT compatible with the P3D - Version 3.3 as long as not stated explicitly on the respective product page!"

 

So on that basis Helsinki is sold as being compatible with P3Dv1.x, P3Dv2.x & P3Dv3.0, 3.1 & 3.2.

 

 

 

Incorrect, no Prepar3Dv3 is mentioned on the productpage at all, thus this statement does not apply here.

If P3Dv3 would be mentioned on the productpage it would apply.

[Cee-Jaay 13]

2 minutes ago, Emanuel Hagen said:

 

Incorrect, no Prepar3Dv3 is mentioned on the productpage at all, thus this statement does not apply here.

If P3Dv3 would be mentioned on the productpage it would apply.

 

No, sorry, I am correct.

 

Go to the page

Scroll to Product Description

Mega Airport Helsinki Vantaa, the premier work of the new developer team A-Flight in breathtaking quality for FSX and Prepar3D.

 

Scroll down to Features

"Complete new development for FSX and Prepar3D"

 

Now scroll down to Product Requirements

"Microsoft Flight Simulator X (SP2, Acceleration Pack or Gold Edition) or Lockheed Martin Prepar3D"

 

 

 

Emanuel, you didn't say anything about "P3Dv3.3" - is that yet another completely new sim?

 

 

[Tom A320 4915]

If only Prepar3D is stated you always have to assume its the FIRST Prepar3D version, meaning P3Dv1.x.

 

LM has changed a lot of stuff over the different versions and broke compatibility at many places. 

 

A P3Dv1.x compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible to P3Dv2.x and also not necessarily compatible with P3Dv3.x.

 

A P3Dv2.x compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible to P3Dv3.x, and also a P3Dv3.1 compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible with P3Dv3.3 (as LM has just proven with their initial P3Dv3.3 release, which has been replaced by a hotfix shortly after).

 

As a customer (flightim enthusiast) one really have to monitor the changes in each new P3D version over the time and check for every add-on you use or want to use the exact supported P3D version. If you are not exactly sure you should ask the manufacturer (support or forum) before spending any money if his add-on really is compatible to a specific P3D version.

 

This name, version and compatibility scheme can be confusing, but add-on manufacturers can't to anything about it, other than stating exactly what version their add-ons are compatible with.

 

So, coming back to Helskinki, it is as you wrote compatible to "Microsoft Flight Simulator X (SP2, Acceleration Pack or Gold Edition) or Lockheed Martin Prepar3D", meaning P3Dv 1.x. Not P3Dv2.x nor P3Dv3.x.

[Emi 5161]

I could not have said it any better Tom!

[Emi 5161]

55 minutes ago, Cee-Jaay said:

Emanuel, you didn't say anything about "P3Dv3.3" - is that yet another completely new sim?

 

Compared to Prepar3D - yes, it is.

The reason we have this statement is that the first release of v3.3 had some major changes which broke compability to almost all previously existing addons.
That's when we added this statement.
Meanwhile LM have issued a hotfix and patched P3Dv3 to version 3.3.5 which now works much better with previous addons again, however we rather keep the above statement in our shop to avoid confusion for those who still not have the hotfix or don't want to install the hotfix for any reason.

[Cee-Jaay 13]

On 26 July 2016 at 9:20 PM, Tom A320 said:

If only Prepar3D is stated you always have to assume its the FIRST Prepar3D version, meaning P3Dv1.x.

 

LM has changed a lot of stuff over the different versions and broke compatibility at many places. 

 

A P3Dv1.x compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible to P3Dv2.x and also not necessarily compatible with P3Dv3.x.

 

A P3Dv2.x compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible to P3Dv3.x, and also a P3Dv3.1 compatible add-on is not necessarily compatible with P3Dv3.3 (as LM has just proven with their initial P3Dv3.3 release, which has been replaced by a hotfix shortly after).

 

As a customer (flightim enthusiast) one really have to monitor the changes in each new P3D version over the time and check for every add-on you use or want to use the exact supported P3D version. If you are not exactly sure you should ask the manufacturer (support or forum) before spending any money if his add-on really is compatible to a specific P3D version.

 

This name, version and compatibility scheme can be confusing, but add-on manufacturers can't to anything about it, other than stating exactly what version their add-ons are compatible with.

 

So, coming back to Helskinki, it is as you wrote compatible to "Microsoft Flight Simulator X (SP2, Acceleration Pack or Gold Edition) or Lockheed Martin Prepar3D", meaning P3Dv 1.x. Not P3Dv2.x nor P3Dv3.x.

 

Thank you for your reply Tom;

 

As a consumer; it's rather difficult to expect us to review the P3D feature list and determine the precise technical impact across all the add-on's which had worked with previous P3D versions; there seems to be a 'false equivalence' emerging lately that users are to blame or should know better.

 

"If only Prepar3D is stated you always have to assume its the FIRST Prepar3D version, meaning P3Dv1.x."

vs

"stating exactly what version their add-ons are compatible with."

 

I don't know why Aerosoft staff have become so adversarial on this issue; it's a pity.

 

[Tom A320 4915]

3 hours ago, Cee-Jaay said:

"If only Prepar3D is stated you always have to assume its the FIRST Prepar3D version, meaning P3Dv1.x."

vs

"stating exactly what version their add-ons are compatible with."

 

Well, Prepar3D is the official LM name of the first P3D version. Just for clarification I named it P3Dv1.x. The official names of the follow up versions are Prepar3D v2 and Prepar3D v3. 

 

So stating a product compatibility with Prepar3D is as precise as it can get. As it uses the official product name.

 

 

3 hours ago, Cee-Jaay said:

As a consumer; it's rather difficult to expect us to review the P3D feature list and determine the precise technical impact across all the add-on's which had worked with previous P3D versions; there seems to be a 'false equivalence' emerging lately that users are to blame or should know better.

 

Why? Let's assume you have bought an add-on for Prepar3D v3 and LM releases Prepar3D v4. So somehow you need to figure if you are safe to update your P3D or not. The more you know about your system the better you can make this an educated decision by yourself other than having to rely on others. The day LM releases a new version everyone comes and asks questions about compatibility. An add-on vendor first has to do tests and also need to adopt installers of an add-on to the new version. This can take days, weeks, months or even might never happen.

 

If the add-on itself is compatible and it's just a question of the old installer which is not aware of the new P3D version, so called "migration tools" will help you. They get you the add-on installed on the new P3D version. They will not fix any compatibility issues of the add-on itself (like the broken runway and taxi lights of many add-ons since P3Dv2). 

 

You have chosen an highly complex hobby. Not only from an aviation perspective but also from a "simulator-maintenance" perspective. So, the more you know not only about aviation but also about your environment, the better it is for you. This is not because add-on vendors don't feel responsible for their add-ons and don't want to answer support questions (the opposite is actually true!), but because it will help you!

 

I have one old add-on which is not compatible at all with Prepar3D at all (Aerosoft Trondheim/Værnes ENVA). I was able to get all my other add-ons up and running in P3Dv3 (some with a few glitches, like the lighting and without any patch available). So I don't need to wait for any vendor to provide any new installers or updates. This could take any time, if it happens at all.

 

And trust me, I am not an FSX guru like many others here in the forums are. I flew the very old FS 3.0 till FS 95. Then I made a huge pause and only started some 4 years ago again with FSX and P3D.

 

 

And coming back to the naming of P3D versions. Well, this has been done by LM, not by Aerosoft. So if someone is to blame for that, than it's LM. But actually in my opinion this is not too difficult to understand. If you want to get the most out of your environment you actually have to understand that (and the differences and reasons for the differences).

[Cee-Jaay 13]

Tom, I'm very sad you seem to have a problem over with issue and insist on being aggressive with a long-time Aerosoft Customer.

 

I'm fed up with the attitude i've experienced lately, clearly I'm regarded as a mere troublemaker so making any further postings are pointless. I will not be replying to these posts or making any more contributions to these forums in future.

 

Good luck in the future & goodbye.

 

[Tom A320 4915]

I don't see where you have been regarded as a troublemaker. Your posts weren't aggressive and neither where mine.

I you feel like that, I am sorry.

[flesland 0]

Thanks guys for solve the light problems after migration from FSX to P3D using Estonian flightsim application.

[sanyok 9]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 5:25 PM, Emanuel Hagen said:

We can't just change just the productpages without changing boxes, too, and the latter would mean that we'd have to scrap thousands of boxes and reprint them which would cost a fortune. Not going to happen, sorry.

 

Not for 1 second I thought about that, what's done is done, no need to scrap thousand of boxes

 

What I say is, is it (in theory) possible to edit the product description at Simmarket (and wherever else it is sold) that the scenery is not P3D v3 compatible?

The description correction will cost you 0.00 in any currency, and will take between 30 seconds and 2 minutes to type.

[jmorvay1971 11]

On 7/30/2016 at 11:00 AM, Cee-Jaay said:

 

Thank you for your reply Tom;

 

As a consumer; it's rather difficult to expect us to review the P3D feature list and determine the precise technical impact across all the add-on's which had worked with previous P3D versions; there seems to be a 'false equivalence' emerging lately that users are to blame or should know better.

 

"If only Prepar3D is stated you always have to assume its the FIRST Prepar3D version, meaning P3Dv1.x."

vs

"stating exactly what version their add-ons are compatible with."

 

I don't know why Aerosoft staff have become so adversarial on this issue; it's a pity.

 

I'm gonna have to side with CeeJaay on this one.  I too went to Aerosoft's store to look for P3D compatible airports that I wanted.  I purchased Helsinki because it stated P3D compatibility, but did not state explicitly what version.  Sure, we can argue semantics until we're blue in the face, but the fact remains that many other online stores will state what versions of P3D they are compatible with.  In any case, after purchasing helsinki, I went through the installer, fired up P3D v3 and realized, while on the tarmac, that something oddly defaulty was going on.  On a hunch, I figured it might be due to the fact that the installer didn't inject the scenery into the scenery.cfg, so I did it manually.  Went back in to the sim and presto, Helsinki appeared in all it's glory.  Now, as for advertising exact versions of P3D, that too can be argued on whether or not it's necessary.  Looking at the demographics of who uses what these days, v1 users is rather small.  V2 users is much higher and v3 is gaining traction.  V3.3 users are still not very high, but again, developers should really look to updating their products to keep up with the later versions.  I realize that costs time and money (i.e. ORBX) and it's understood that in the future, small fees will be applied for those who want to keep using certain add-ons as the sim versions increase.  I personally don't have a problem with paying a fee as long as the scenery works.  Aerosoft has to know that it has a strong customer base and they should care about maintaining that base.  Deceptive or vague wording in their product description only causes confusion, debates, arguments and in some instances, buyer's regret.

[w6kd 9]

I absolutely see the need for retailers, including Aerosoft, to explicitly and clearly address each product's compatibility with each variant of the sim.  Leaving it open to interpretation or subject to some policy statement nobody has seen is *guaranteed* to result in people buying incompatible products and it's not unreasonable for them to be angry with the retailer when they do.  When I am angry with a retailer I buy from someone else.

 

But back to topic, I got EFHK working in P3D3 by installing it using EMT, turning off the 3D taxi lights in the configurator, and reformatting the rwyhalo textures to DXT1 using imagetool.

 

Regards

 

Bob Scott

[musefan 363]

On 8/5/2016 at 9:20 PM, w6kd said:

I absolutely see the need for retailers, including Aerosoft, to explicitly and clearly address each product's compatibility with each variant of the sim.  Leaving it open to interpretation or subject to some policy statement nobody has seen is *guaranteed* to result in people buying incompatible products and it's not unreasonable for them to be angry with the retailer when they do.  When I am angry with a retailer I buy from someone else.

But it's not open to interpretation. P3D v1, v2 and v3 are all different sims. They're not "updates" or service pack enhancements. They are 3 different sims that all have to be bought seperately. Think of v1 as FS2002. v2 would be FS2004 and v3 is FSX. Would you honestly expect a scenery that was compatible with FS2002 and FS2004 to still be compatible with FSX today? Of course you wouldn't. I honestly can see where your coming from, and in a perfect world I'd be in agreement, but for any publisher's business point of view, it's hugely unfeasible to keep releasing software addons to keep up with todays software. At some point it has to stop.

 

Would you expect software that was designed to run on windows 95 20 years ago to be able to run flawlessly on windows 7 or 10 today? Would you expect a PS1 console game to work on a PS4 today? Times change. Software changes. And people learn to accept and move on with these changes.

[w6kd 9]

11 hours ago, nealmac said:

Would you expect software that was designed to run on windows 95 20 years ago to be able to run flawlessly on windows 7 or 10 today? Would you expect a PS1 console game to work on a PS4 today?

 

No, and I don't expect every add-on to work with P3D V3 either.  I do expect that software advertised to work on "Windows" to specify which versions if it does not include all of them. 

 

This is about truth in advertising and expectation management.  It's not a demand that each product work with all versions, but up-front clear labelling of which versions of P3D and/or FSX each add-on will work with is not too much to ask.  If "P3D" means P3D V1, then why not just say "P3D V1"??

 

Regards

 

Bob Scott

[musefan 363]

11 hours ago, nealmac said: Would you expect software that was designed to run on windows 95 20 years ago to be able to run flawlessly on windows 7 or 10 today? Would you expect a PS1 console game to work on a PS4 today?

 

No, and I don't expect every add-on to work with P3D V3 either.  I do expect that software advertised to work on "Windows" to specify which versions if it does not include all of them. 

 

This is about truth in advertising and expectation management.  It's not a demand that each product work with all versions, but up-front clear labelling of which versions of P3D and/or FSX each add-on will work with is not too much to ask.  If "P3D" means P3D V1, then why not just say "P3D V1"??

 

Regards

 

Bob Scott

Bob, why should they they have to go back and re-advertise old stock under a new name? If it was a boxed version do you honestly think developers would recall all boxes so they could re-print the inlay sleeves just to mention that it may not work with newer versions?

Also, as Tom already mentioned, P3D version 1 was called Prepar3d when it launched, much the same way the very first Superman movie was called "Superman". It was only when Superman 2 was released that people unofficially started calling the original "Superman 1". P3D is the exact same.

Like i said, I can see where you're coming from but you're not thinking realistically. You need to put your business hat on.

Sorry it's 3am here in Ireland and I'm just finished working a late shift I don't mean to sound grumpy.

[Cargostorm 98]

I think all has been well said. One has to accept that P3D is not P3D V2 or P3D V3, but an independent sim platform. It also helps to look at the publication date of the software to know what platforms are supported.

[Emi 5161]

On 9.8.2016 at 3:48 AM, w6kd said:

I do expect that software advertised to work on "Windows" to specify which versions if it does not include all of them. 

 

This is about truth in advertising and expectation management.  It's not a demand that each product work with all versions, but up-front clear labelling of which versions of P3D and/or FSX each add-on will work with is not too much to ask.  If "P3D" means P3D V1, then why not just say "P3D V1"??

 

Because at the time Helsinki was released there was only one Prepar3D and as others already pointed out above that one was called Prepar3D, not Prepar3Dv1 or any different.
That is what we put on the productpages and printed on the boxes back then: Prepar3D (P3D), as that was how that simulator was called.

To make this fit into your Windows example: Let's assume Microsoft released an operating system called "Windows". You then program an application for "Windows".
Two years later Windows 2 gets released and "Windows" gets renamed into "Windows 1".

Now it reads Windows on your boxes, but there are two Windows's available.

Whos fault is it now? Yours, because you wrote the exact name of the supported program on it? Or Microsofts because they have choosen unclear productnames?

Sorry, but you can't blame us for this, we have only used the names Lockheed gave their simulator at the time this product was released.

 

Changing it would mean recalling thousands of boxes, scraping thouands more in our (and other retailers!) warehouses, etc. Financially impossible.

[Vesku-K 6]

I'm gonna have to side with CeeJaay on this one

TOM wrote that there aikasemmine P3D means only version 1, but not 2 or 3, still mega airport Helsinki is, however, compatible with version 2, why is it, if it does not belong to be like the version with 1. I do not know what your write. They say one thing and means another still, but by the end,  you not want to serve your paying customers, surely many of us are willing to pay 5 to 10 € that will upgrade to a new P3D.v3

Sorry for my bad English, German I do not know even less.

 

[Tom A320 4915]

30 minutes ago, Vesku-K said:

still mega airport Helsinki is, however, compatible with version 2,

 

It is not, otherwise there wouldn't be problems with the runway and taxiway lights

 

30 minutes ago, Vesku-K said:

why is it, if it does not belong to be like the version with 1. I do not know what your write. They say one thing and means another still, but by the end,  you not want to serve your paying customers, surely many of us are willing to pay 5 to 10 € that will upgrade to a new P3D.v3

 

All that is to say about this has been said in #32 and #36.

 

Regarding updates: please do a forum search for "prepar3d" and "update" and you will find tons of posts. In between you will find statements from Aerosoft (Mathijs or Emi) telling exactly why it is not possible to update each and every scenery for each and every new version of P3D. As this has been explained over and over again, there is no need to repeat it here.

[Vesku-K 6]

Tom.

You say that Mega Airport Helsinki is not compatible with p3d.v2, but why then is the installation place a check mark for version 2. According to the image.

Are sure you know this, why you say repeat, if installation says another? This will certainly cause a lot of confusion in this case p3d.v2x

 

But that's about it, I will continue my journey and i choose carefully in the future from whom I buy a airports. There are also those companies that are willing to regenerate and keep new customers with satisfaction.And I sincerely hope that you are also involved in the reform.

 

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And now bye bye.