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ATC: 160 knots until 4 NM before EGLL


Sabre10

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Approaching EHAM ATC requests you to maintain 180kts untill 4miles from the threshold (the same applies to EGLL and others), so Airbus pilots use flaps1/gear up untill 4miles to the rwy. As Rolf suggested in other thread you can use SPEED SEL of 180 knots until 4 NM before the runway and then change back to SPEED MNGD. "Then the plane should slow down and the Landing CL starts at 2.000 feet. AG...." (I think Rolf meant Approach Check List). Anywhow unfortunately you'd be already at 2000ft well-well before 4nm from the threashold in EHAM case. I would suggest some special trigger (need your ideas here) to allow manual Approach CHL engagement (for such approaches) in AirbusX SP3 logic. Perhaps Approach1, Approach2 in the right MCDU? Please share your thoughts.

Much thanks,

Sabre10

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First I was not talking about the Approach CL but about the FINAL and the LANDING CL. Please have a look into the Vol6 StepbyStep Guide on page 60 #259. The ECAM Landing Memo appears at 2.000 ft RA and this is normally (SOP) the trigger to reduce speed and set Flaps 2 ........ But looking at the charts for EGLL p. e. ILS RWY 09L it means that we have not yet reached IAA4.

But first I want to make sure that your statement is confirmed by one of our RL pilots. So I asked him and waiting for his answer.....As soon your statement is confirmed we will look for a solution. But I am sure this one will not make into SP3 because of other priorities and the set timeframe. This means you cannot use the CP function when landing in EGLL (switch the CP function OFF) and have to make the settings yourself.......

Regards,

Rolf

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So I finally got the answer from a RL A320 pilot on your question.

The user made a slight mistake. EGLL ATC makes us fly 180kts on the baseleg. When on the ILS you will always get the restriction 160kts till 4nm.

This is a bit difficult because we have to be fully established at 1000 feet RA. When the 160 till 4 call comes we are already at 180kts selected with Flaps two and we select the speed to 160. Now we have to see if the plane reduces its speed or not. Using the speedbrake helps sometimes. If not we have to deploy the gear. This is not desired because it will cause noise and extra fuel flow. Sometimes we use non standard flaps three before the gear down. At 6 miles the gear goes down and at 4.5 we push the speed to managed again and select flaps three and full quickly. Doing it this way we are barely established at 1000 feet RA but everybody is happy.

So this means that the a. m. procedure is completely different from a normal ILS approach. Therefore I currently would suggest to switch the Copilot function to OFF after the APPR PHASE has been initiated. Do all the settings manually as required to fulfil ATC requirements. When going back to SPEED MANGD (4.5 NM before the runway) set the Copilot function back to ON ..... and continue landing......

We will think about and discuss a solution in our team but it will be not part of the SP3 for sure e. g. maybe we find one for the A330. To summarize the before mentioned: For the A318-321 you will have to live with the proposed workaround......

Regards,

Rolf

Rolf

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I shouldn't have mentioned EGLL! My mistake. But 180kts/4nm fully applies to EHAM, I think it is on the charts, and I'll check it out. You can ask even a VATSIM ATC person, let alone an airliner pilot who flies there.

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Yes, a shortcut to turn Copilot off and then back on would be helpful, it would work for EHAM approach as well. Thank you for your comments, very interesting. But I wish I could just manually control engagement of Approach checklist on the Checklist page. Why it has to be only automatic?

Many thanks.

PS: is Copilot on/ff assignable (keystrokes)?

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In EHAM it is also 160 till 4.

180kts till 4 is almost impossible to fly in RL.

Just to add. Anyone in ATC requesting an aircraft to do 180kts to 4d would be getting the legendary invitation to the office for an interview with no tea and biscuits!

Mike

(Retired ATC Examiner. U.K.)

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Ok, let it be 160kts, doesn't change the principle, on the contrary, as it is still "not less than" and Flaps1 configuration.

And it applies to both EGLL and EHAM. In AirbusX terms it is somewhere within Approach Checklist routine (that must be paused after Flaps1) .

Sabre10.

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  • 1 month later...

Finally we found a solution and it will be implemented in SP3: If you are flying already with Flaps 2 and SPD SEL is equal or greater than 160 knots then the FINAL CL will be interrupted when the ECAM LANDING MEMO appears e. g. no landing gear will be deployed and no Flaps 3. As soon as the speed changes e. g. to SPD MNGD or SPD SEL smaller than 160 knots the landing gear will be deloyed and the flaps are set to 3 and FULL.

So in case there is a speed restrction of 160 knots, set Flaps 2 and use SPD SEL 160 knots until app. 4 NM before the runway. Then change back to SPD MNGD (just push the SPD button) and the checklist will commence with landing gear down, Flaps 3 and Flaps FULL.

Regards,

Rolf

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Finally we found a solution and it will be implemented in SP3: If you are flying already with Flaps 2 and SPD SEL is equal or greater than 160 knots then the FINAL CL will be interrupted when the ECAM LANDING MEMO appears e. g. no landing gear will be deployed and no Flaps 3. As soon as the speed changes e. g. to SPD MNGD or SPD SEL smaller than 160 knots the landing gear will be deloyed and the flaps are set to 3 and FULL.

So in case there is a speed restrction of 160 knots, set Flaps 2 and use SPD SEL 160 knots until app. 4 NM before the runway. Then change back to SPD MNGD (just push the SPD button) and the checklist will commence with landing gear down, Flaps 3 and Flaps FULL.

Regards,

Rolf

Rolf, this sounds awesome, thank you and the team for your hard work on AirbusX. Can't wait for SP3.

Regards,

Sabre.

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