DCLUB 2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi everybody, few moments ago i did a flight with my ATR from EDDH to EDDM. I choosed a low FL 230 ( here in Germany low FL are categorized up to FL 245). For the initial routing i got the result: IDEK3G IDEKO Y900 TIMEN ( Y900 is a high airway) correct would be IDEK3G IDEKO N850 WRB ( N850 is a low airway). So even i choosed a low FL i got a high FL routing. Don't know on how many routings this happens. Would be nice, if this could be corrected some how. Greetings Ingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougsnow 50 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thats navdata's error, not PFPX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Y900 is available from 4000' to FL660 according to the AIP so would be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgmultimodal 61 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Stephen you are absolutely right but I can see Ingo's point: If you route low levels, after TIMEN you do not have any airway available. See enclosed. Regards, JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 With Navigraph AIRAC PFPX returns for a low level route, requires adjusting for validation: EDDH IDEK4C IDEKO N850 BOMBI L603 KOSEK Z74 HAREM T104 ANORA ANOR2A EDDM EDIT: Ingo which navigation data provider and cycle is in use and what was the full route given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLUB 2 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hi everybody. routing given from PFPX ( quick find route) was: IDEK4C IDEKO Y900 TIMEN UL126 DINKU UL603 AKANU AKAN2A( for FL 230 entire route/ no validation check) Navigation Data provider: Navigraph for PFPX / Cycle 1413 Greetings Ingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgmultimodal 61 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi Ingo, Due to the restrictions in Germany the only valid FPL accepted by CFMU (for low levels) that I found is this one: -EDDH0700 -N305F230 IDEKO N850 KRH Z729 LBU L173 RIXED -EDDM0124 Could be another one but I did not find anything realistic so far. It does not say that in real life ATC would not allow you a short cut but if you file this one you are OK with regulations. Regards, JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I cannot reproduce your outcome here Ingo using either Low Level airways or Quick Find with a FL230 cap. Non validated Quick Find: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgmultimodal 61 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi Stephen, I got the restrictions from Jeppesen and then I replan manually. From PFPX I got the same results than you which is not acceptable with CFMU. Regards, JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If I were flying the route JP I would have cleared through CFMU like yourself Looking for a simple explanation as to why Ingo gets a different routing from ourselves assuming a similar submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLUB 2 Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 I cannot reproduce your outcome here Ingo using either Low Level airways or Quick Find with a FL230 cap. Non validated Quick Find: low level.jpg Hi Stephen and everybody, that's what i exactly figured out 5 minutes ago.I never filled in the marked field. When doing so, everything looks alright. Thank you so much Greetings and merry x-mas Ingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogruetzmann 11 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hi, not sure why a Y airway should be an upper airway. Purpose of ATS routes with T, Y and Q designators: ATS routes with T, Y or Q designators are special feeder routes to be used as transition/access to connect SIDs and STARs of the designated aerodromes to/from the enroute network. If not otherwise indicated these routes shall not be used for overflying purposes. In detail the designators are used as follows: – T routes indicate transitioning from the enroute phase to terminal operation – Y routes indicate transitioning from terminal operation to the enroute phase – Q routes indicate transitioning to/from terminal operation to/from the enroute phase. From the German AIP ED ENR 3.3 Best valid route I know so far (not generated by PFPX): AMLUH M852 POVEL Z16 GALMA T703 LULAR T105 EXUSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 not sure why a Y airway should be an upper airway If you have a look at the enroute AIP you'll see many Lower/Upper airways are merged especially across nothern Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juergen_DL3FY 49 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 hi Ingo, I have for the lower airways that way with depart from the rwy23 in Hamburg: EDDH AMLU8B BIBNU M852 POVEL Z16 GALMA M736 RDG T105 GOMAX EDDM these schedules should be correct and supplied by the FlightSimCommander9.5 For other RWYs here the SID's: RWY05 > AMLU7 RWY15 > AMLU7 RWY33 > AMLU7C regards Juergen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogruetzmann 11 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 If you have a look at the enroute AIP you'll see many Lower/Upper airways are merged especially across nothern Europe. Yep, but for Germany (didn't look up any other countries) it's a transition route. Unfortunately many things are different in different countries, and the thread starter says it's an upper airway. While this might be true for other regions, it's not true for the route he mentioned. Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 421 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 As you can see Y900 only for DEP EDDH, EDHI, EDHL requesting FL250 or above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogruetzmann 11 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 As you can see Y900 only for DEP EDDH, EDHI, EDHL requesting FL250 or above Y900.jpg Good point, didn't catch that remark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLUB 2 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi everybody, there is a new route on which low and high level airways cause trouble again. Yesterday i did a flight fro EGJJ to EGPH. Even though i choosed FL 240 in the "Init Cruise Alt/FL" and " Altitude/FL Capping" field he figured out the following routing: OYST2B SKERY UN862 BHD UN864 NITON UP17 NOKIN UP16 RIBEL UN601 ABEVI N601 ESKDO. When validating PFPX itself remarked, that for e.g. " RIBEL UN601 ABEVI DOES NOT EXIST in FL RANGE F000..F245".Why? Cause the U airways always assigns a high FL airway, and that means a FL of 250 or higher. Even though, a low airway named N601 is available outbound from RIBEL, and that's the correct low level airway. Problem is, that he simply doesn't recognize this. After having manually deletetd all U's from the airway designator, no errors were found anymore, and the routing was valid as expected. Greetings Ingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgmultimodal 61 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Ingo, If you use "FIND" then "LOWER AIRSPACE" you get it straight away and approved CFMU. Regards, JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.