Martin Müller 39 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hello people! The initial climb performance of the IAE and CFM engines is very different. I always have problem to get not into stall with the IAE in the very first initial climb. With the CFM engines, I don't have this problem. And yes, I set my Flaps as last thing. Please clarify what's wrong here. My TOW is around 64t. this is far away from MTOW. With CFM all is good. I know the IAE perfoamance is not the best, but this problems shoud not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_LOWW 4 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hey guys! Sorry to be back with the same issue. This is from another flight on the A320 IAE at a TOW of 63,1 t during initial climb from EGGW 26. To the point I reduced to climb thrust at 1,500 ft AGL everything was normal. With climb thrust and flaps still extended to 3,000 ft AGL for noise abatement I nearly ended up in a stall during that turn. After flap retraction everything was back to normal and the A320 IAE climbed flawlessly to FL370. No problems at all on the A319 IAE and A321 IAE. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted November 23, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 23, 2014 @Michael Was that 19kts tailwind there the whole time? Do you also have these problems without real weather? @Martin Did you try to put the Thrust Levers in the CL detent after the pitch was reduced and the aircraft is accelerating iso directly when passing acc alt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 @Martin Did you try to put the Thrust Levers in the CL detent after the pitch was reduced and the aircraft is accelerating iso directly when passing acc alt? I put the thrust levers to CL when the regarding message in PFD appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted November 24, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, just wait a few seconds for the plane to pick up some speed and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, just wait a few seconds for the plane to pick up some speed and see what happens. OK, but the stall problem appear before the CL message appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Screenshots will far better illustrate the problem you are facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikalaxALT 19 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Make sure you are entering your flaps/trim setting into the PERF page after boarding has completed, otherwise V-speeds may be computed based on a lower, intermediate weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_LOWW 4 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 @Michael Was that 19kts tailwind there the whole time? Do you also have these problems without real weather? @Martin Did you try to put the Thrust Levers in the CL detent after the pitch was reduced and the aircraft is accelerating iso directly when passing acc alt? hey! I took-off with a light headwind. the wind then changed to a tailwind during climb-out. i will try without real weather asap. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Try to fly SOKRU1A departure @ LROP airport. In this SID you have a +800feet restriction shortly after take off. No chance to make an clean takeoff without stall with IAE airbus. I always set flaps as last thing before engine startup always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 After serval tries, I noticed the problem occur if you have real weather in turbulence during takeoff. Turbulences producing "jumping" speed and than the result is stall in bad case. It is possible to reduce the tubulence-scale but I don't think this is the solution, cause with CFM engines all is ok. I think the calculation of V2 is to close to the stall conditions. I calculated V-Speeds with another tool and the V2 is 10knotes higher as the airbus calculates. OK, as workarround it is possible to set V2 higher. But than you have a initial climb-speed of 300-500ft. I think anything with engine performance is wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptOwen 3 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'm going to have to agree here... I did a flight from EGKK-LCLK today with a TOW of 65 tonnes and at after rotation the aircraft was struggling to even climb at 300fpm. Winds were variable at the time. I had to literally stop my take off climb at about 500 feet on the radar altitude, engaged TOGA and waited for 10 seconds for the speed to build up to an acceptable level. Once climbing away in TOGA the climb performance seemed to be normal again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Che. 1601 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 As I said earlier, screenshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Tried 64 tons TOW in clear/ISA weather with the A320 IAE (current internal build) - no problems. T/O thrust was FLEX (auto-calculated assumed temp derate) and flaps setting was CONF 1+F. Pls. also state your weather/temperatures, takeoff thrust and takeoff configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_LOWW 4 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hey Oliver! With T/O FLEX i get similar climb rates. My problem is CLB thrust and flaps still deployed from 1,500 to 3,000 ft AGL (for noise abatement) when climb rates drastically drop to about 1,000 fpm. Especially turns are critical in this configuration with a climb rate of as a low as 200 to 300 fpm or even less. This is without ASN and regardless of the TOW. After flap retraction the A320 IAE behaves as expected. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted November 25, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 25, 2014 My problem is CLB thrust... And when do you use CLB thrust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikalaxALT 19 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 And when do you use CLB thrust? I believe he's setting CLB thrust at the noise-abatement thrust reduction altitude of 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hey Oliver! With T/O FLEX i get similar climb rates. My problem is CLB thrust and flaps still deployed from 1,500 to 3,000 ft AGL (for noise abatement) when climb rates drastically drop to about 1,000 fpm. Especially turns are critical in this configuration with a climb rate of as a low as 200 to 300 fpm or even less. This is without ASN and regardless of the TOW. After flap retraction the A320 IAE behaves as expected. Michael Tried this as well (including the turn shortly after takeoff) and can't confirm your issue. Could you pls. post the takeoff PERF page of your MCDU before takeoff, and a couple of shots taken during the climb, showing your PFD? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Every Takeoff I get Stall Iths make no more fun to fly IAE Airbus. And why does the aircraft descending when the next altitude shoud be +800 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 And the next try - alwo ended in Stall:Yes, Autopilot is on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted November 26, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 26, 2014 And why does the aircraft descending when the next altitude shoud be +800 ? Is this a serious question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Is this a serious question? Yes, OK, the speed is to low for climbing but why does the engines give no more speed? All Iw nat is to make an takoff with IAE engine without stall. No chance. With CFM no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted November 26, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 26, 2014 In your first picture you are in TOGA (max power) but also on the negative side of the power curve. Only by reducing the AoA and sacrificing altitude are you gonna get out of it. In this case you are too low. But that is besides the point. The problem is getting into the stall in the first place which should not happen. I will talk to the dev about the speed getting below V2, which is only part of the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Müller 39 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 In your first picture you are in TOGA (max power) No, I used FLEX on booth tests. I think alhpa-floor set TOGO to prevent stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted November 26, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yes, I know. You can see it in your pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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