GrosserOnkel 12 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Hi there, I was tempted to buy the the thing on simmarket as I saw it today, as I really like the idea. But it is like many add-on's...a good game, but no simulation. - Since when are DEP/ARR are bandboxd at high tfc airports all times, with no oprtion to unbox, like EGLL, KORD, KDFW etc. - Since when do you controll all the arr and dep 360° around the airport, even at small airports, they are often spilt. - coordination required when working off standard to the neighbouring sector? . None required or even possible.... - "Cleared to Line-Up" and "Cleared to take-off" etc...advertised as being and arr/dep and "/TWR" controller...these clearances are dep duties, (tranmitted via twr, called "release"- there are standing release agreements at some airports though) but non the less if it was a "TWR" sim, you could (at least) see something like a ground radar etc.... - As advertised "Reallistic traffic"...even your ad-pics, how "real" this program was, shows a DHC-6 at Munich...how reallistic is that. When did you saw a DHC-6, which "goes around due to fog" at EDDM the last time - Just generated tfc, no real flp, even though the sources for even close tfc at an airport, are there today (UT 2, e.g.). when i decide to controll a small airport, if have to deal with very low tfc, even at peak times and so on and so forth... I'm not saying, that this is not a good game. I tried the demo...i'm saying, that this is a good GAME... But there is no option to choose, as advertised: "Game mode"...there is only a "Game mode"...you choice you have to take is: "Game mode" or "arcade" Cheers Philipp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonM 94 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Wait a sec... - Since when are DEP/ARR are bandboxd at high tfc airports all times, with no oprtion to unbox, like EGLL, KORD, KDFW etc. What do you mean by "bandboxd"? - Since when do you controll all the arr and dep 360° around the airport, even at small airports, they are often spilt. - coordination required when working off standard to the neighbouring sector? . None required or even possible.... - "Cleared to Line-Up" and "Cleared to take-off" etc...advertised as being and arr/dep and "/TWR" controller...these clearances are dep duties, (tranmitted via twr, called "release"- there are standing release agreements at some airports though) but non the less if it was a "TWR" sim, you could (at least) see something like a ground radar etc.... This was just my choice, to do it that way not the other, as developer as I felt that making this too realistic would make GATC user unfriendly - too boring and unnecessarily complex. - As advertised "Reallistic traffic"...even your ad-pics, how "real" this program was, shows a DHC-6 at Munich...how reallistic is that. When did you saw a DHC-6, which "goes around due to fog" at EDDM the last time - Just generated tfc, no real flp, even though the sources for even close tfc at an airport, are there today (UT 2, e.g.). when i decide to controll a small airport, if have to deal with very low tfc, even at peak times Yet again. Realistic traffic might be boring at some times. To keep the challenge going you sometimes have to deal with smaller aircraft and I am pretty sure there were few DHC-6 landing in EDDM in a fog even this year. Summary: This is the reason I decided (and that wasn't easy decision at all!) to release the demo as I also felt it will eliminate any doubts regarding "how realistic is this?". Demo has all the "flaws" that you mentioned here so I don't see a point for bringing that up in such way like you did. Let everyone decide for themselves - it's free Everyone should also think about their attitude to PC simulators. They are all games after all... We call them simulators because they mimic the real world/device and our fun of them is based on our ability to ignore the flaws. If we will constantly point them out we will loose all the fun of FSX, P3D, X-Plane and many more simulators cause they all have flaws and imperfections. GATC is a compromise and I personally think that it's price to quality ratio is pretty good especially that there is free, fully functional demo. So please, don't say that we made a "game", not a simulator, just because we gave the work of few controllers just to one player... Also if you want to split duties ask your friends to buy GATC, use Hamachi (or similar software) and have fun with multiplayer - gives you almost have of what you pointed out in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosserOnkel 12 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 See my anwers in intalics Wait a sec... What do you mean by "bandboxd"? I forgot the e for "bandboxed"....I hope I don't have to tell you, what "bandboxed " atc-sectors mean...you are the atc SIM developer This was just my choice, to do it that way not the other, as developer as I felt that making this too realistic would make GATC user unfriendly - too boring and unnecessarily complex. Absolutely your decision,...I'm fine with, as I said. Fora game it is really good. But please: Don't call it a sim! ATC might be boring at times, not that much at klax oder eddm but at egnx or edlp... i know that, when i chosse to control there. But then again, don't call it a sim but a game Yet again. Realistic traffic might be boring at some times. To keep the challenge going you sometimes have to deal with smaller aircraft and I am pretty sure there were few DHC-6 landing in EDDM in a fog even this year. Maybe, reallistic traffic might be boring at times. But that is "simulating" the reallity. You want action: go to klax at peak times...lazy?!: edwo might be yours...having traffic at eddw (just to name an airport) with 777 etc, which might be there is gaming, not simulating the real thing and btw, i rly doubt there was even one dhc-6 going around due to fog in eddm this year. In fact, not officially, but in fact eddm is closed to vfr. so i doubt, there was even two dhc-6 there this year Summary: This is the reason I decided (and that wasn't easy decision at all!) to release the demo as I also felt it will eliminate any doubts regarding "how realistic is this?". Demo has all the "flaws" that you mentioned here so I don't see a point for bringing that up in such way like you did. Let everyone decide for themselves - it's free I think I was/am polite with my points. If i was'nt i'm sorry. I I didn't said "it's absolutely crap" sh*t" and so on...I just said, and brought up the points, which in my opinion make this thing not a sim but a game. But that's what a forum is for: to discuss the pros and cons Everyone should also think about their attitude to PC simulators. They are all games after all... We call them simulators because they mimic the real world/device and our fun of them is based on our ability to ignore the flaws. If we will constantly point them out we will loose all the fun of FSX, P3D, X-Plane and many more simulators cause they all have flaws and imperfections. GATC is a compromise and I personally think that it's price to quality ratio is pretty good especially that there is free, fully functional demo. Can't see the link between tbetween a demo and any pricing policy...But the rest tells our different mind sets; With a real simulator, i can forget the rules and just go crazy: fsx: fly like insane below bridges, atc; bounce a/c together like bumper cars...but i can serious too and fly with real procedures etc or control with ground radar as an atc....But with this programm, I can have good time, no doubt. But I can't "simulate" (That's what an simulator do) So please, don't say that we made a "game", not a simulator, just because we gave the work of few controllers just to one player... Also if you want to split duties ask your friends to buy GATC, use Hamachi (or similar software) and have fun with multiplayer - gives you almost have of what you pointed out in your post. I don't want to make any advertisement, but there is a programm out allowing you to controll the UK, made, at least 5 years ago, which is more "sim" style...you can use it in a game style too, but don't say: you make this programm like it is, just to simply procedures....my previous mentioned programm did it as well, just in a really "sim" style... I know a atc game, pretty old, where you got to control the airspace of arlanda airport. It was made by a swedish guy, just can'T remeber his name right now...but it was at least 2004 when this game existed...it was exactliy the same like yours, even the graphics are close...just freeware and maybe no updated navdata... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james200410 2 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I thought the process was quite easy ... Try the DEMO If you don't like it, delete it ! I liked it so I bought it , not because its real, but to practice with..... BUT . If it wasn't what I would expect, I myself would just let it be.... Good luck with finding something out there that suits your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted December 21, 2013 Aerosoft Share Posted December 21, 2013 But there is no option to choose, as advertised: "Game mode"...there is only a "Game mode"...you choice you have to take is: "Game mode" or "arcade" Okay, then name me one single product sold for under a million dollar that you are willing to call a simulation. Under your condition there is none. Calling any bit 'arcade' is close to insulting the developer and me. The definition of arcade includes that no laws of physic play any role and in any mode of GATC the aircraft have their simulated behavior, have to handle wind (with gusts etc). Lastly D-IVER is an existing aircraft, we used that to model our Twin Otter Extended product. And this DHC-6 has most certainly been to Munich. Using real schedules is of course an option. That would also mean that 90% of the airport covered are utterly useless because who would sit there to wait for the 4 aircraft that come there every day? Clear and aircraft for arrival, wait 30 minutes for it to turn around, clear it for departure and have a 3 hour lunch break before the next one comes. If you feel that would enhance the product you have seriously more patience then the rest of our customers. I am not sure what you were intending with your post, but I fully reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That U.K. ATC simulation is very good, rather realistic stuff indeed. By comparing the U.K. product, and ATC Simulator (2) and the Feelthere Tower/Tracon stuff to GATC, my perception is that Aerosoft has aimed at offering you the largest airport/SID/STAR database available for a single product, without having to pay for airport and/or RW flightplan expansions. Furthermore it's a good deal customizable. I don't think Aerosoft intended to develop the most realistic ATC simulation to date. I'd rather guess they want to provide a 'reasonable' degree of simulation (including aircraft behaviour and RW SIDs/STARs and airport layouts ), entertaining and flexible in use, and offering good value for your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsuch 1 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I think its not bad but not getting any pilot replies seems unrealistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonM 94 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I think its not bad but not getting any pilot replies seems unrealistic May I ask you where did you get that idea from? GATC might lack voice feedback but it most certainly has pilot's responses! See attached screen. The reason for not including voice feedback is easy: most of the times me and beta testers were using simulation at 3.0 or higher rate. Voice feedback would become unreadable/unusable... It is still my wish to introduce open voice feedback system, customizable by users for users, but I am not even in planning phase so no promises at all... Other thing is that I am having a feeling that some folks here feel that GATC should be fully functional certified training platform for ATC facilities for under 30€... Well... The main simulation goal and focus of GATC is, and always was/will be, sequencing of the aircraft. It is not about abnormal "1 to 10000000" situations, crazy pilots, fancy ATC gear and radio technologies. (Although some suggestions are awesome, very welcome and will be included and I am very thankful to those guys who made them ) It is about getting all those aircraft on the ground safely and ASAP. If you think that controlling whole airport all by yourself is unrealistic then you're right but I don't intend to create any kind of artificial intelligence that would take into account all the local procedures at any airport in the world. Simply there are some limitations guys... If you want to share the duties ask on this very forum and I am sure someone would love to join you in multiplayer session If you have any suggestions about multiplayer I am open to them. I don't promise to include them but will read them for sure This being said and with the demo available for free to anyone I hope this subject is now officially closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsuch 1 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Hi Robert apologies no intention to offend, I like it very much I would hope somewhere down the track pilots will reply with voice that at least to me is important Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsuch 1 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Robert I must also say your support is superb which makes me think this will develop and grow into something exceptional, thanks Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malti 0 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi to all out there and my best wishes for the new year! I found this SIM via Amazon and ordered it right away because it reminded me of a simulation I had on my Win XP computer. Anyone here remember ATCC from Xavius? While I´m still waiting for the software to be delivered I downloaded the DEMO and started to check it out. It´s not bad but I have to admit for itself claiming to be a simulation and not a game there are a few things I´m missing. - It has been discussed but I really wan´t voice talkbacks from the pilots. Make them optional if you like but I need a voice speaking to me "Good morning, American 245 with you flight level 300." to get in tune. And hearing a pilot saying "Speedbird 12 descent and maintain 3000" helps me recognize I made an error much more faster than reading it somewhere on the screen. - From time to time I´d like to issue commands like "Abort" or "Expedite" to aircrafts. - What about sectors? I don´t see any adjacent sectors. I´d expect sectors all around and the possibility to do real hand-offs. - Speaking of hand-offs. If there is a lot of traffic I´d call for a D-Side but still hand-offs will be done. - I find it unrealistic to issue take-off commands to aircrafts while handling airspace up to even 30.000 ft. That shall be enough for this time. But I´d really like you to consider that there are people out there who really look serious to this software and see a high potential in it that has not fully developed yet. Malti ps: Because I´m not a native english speaker, if something is incomprehensible, don´t hesitate to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn Coenen 9 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 From time to time I´d like to issue commands like "Abort" or "Expedite" to aircrafts. See page 12 of the manual, both expedite and aborts are possible. I don't care what the name is, sim, game, entertainment, I like it. Easy to play and to customize, a great developer open to initiatives. I don't need some ultra-real "something" with a price well above my budget. For about €30 they can call it what they want, I am happy to have bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malti 0 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 See page 12 of the manual, both expedite and aborts are possible. OK, I found the "X" but how to tell an aircraft to abort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emi 5161 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 "Good morning, American 245 with you flight level 300." No... no... nooooooooooooooooooooooo! Not with you...... please! We are talking about a simulation here, not a game! For those of you wondering: With you is the wrongest thing you can say in a radio call. What do you want to tell me with that? I know you are on my frequency because I am talking to you. And I can assure you that I know each person in this room and you are not among them. So please please please, you are not with me! Saldy this is widespread amongst flightsimmers, but it simply is wrong. I got the AIP right next to me and within the 19 pages of phraseology I can not find a single phrase in which the words "with" and "you" are used in this order. As Robert said already he will look into it, but we really can't promise anything now, so please standby for this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malti 0 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 No... no... nooooooooooooooooooooooo! Not with you...... please! We are talking about a simulation here, not a game! Ok, thanks. Didn´t want to cause any chest pain. I´m an EMT from germany, so ask me about broken bones and not about the right aviation phrases. But I´m willing to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean33 2 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Is there an Expedite instruction for those of us noting using Commands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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