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Airbus A320 landing rates


basilis_besios

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Hi everyone!

I was wondering, and i hope real pilots can enlighten me, what are the landing rates of real airbus' a320 flights..

Is it easy and often to achieve a less than -100 fpm landing? is a landing rate up to 250 fpm a nice landing?

I'm asking bcs my landings (in FSX) are about 240 fpm and i try hard to improve this rate..I know that up to 500 fpm is acceptable,but the question is "what landing rate make you happy and is considered as a nice landing?" or "what is your average landing rate?"

Thank you in adv.

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Hello,

a good landing is one you can walk away from.

After a very good landing you can even use the plane again.

Ok, enough yokes ;)

-500 actually is a pretty hard landing. -500fps equals a descent rate of -2 1/2 meters per second so imaging to fall 2 1/2 meters in one second. You wouldn't want to hit the ground that fast!

A good landing rate is somewhere between -50 and -150.

-150 to -250 is in my opinion acceptable and everything below this is a hard landing.

Which landing technique do you use? Please describe us how you are doing it.

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Hi Basilis,

there are some design Limits based on touch down feet per Minute. They are 10feet/sec (=600fpm) below max landing weight and 6feet/sec (=360fpm) above max landinging weight. But a hard landing inspection is based on more Parameters than touch down sink rate alone. For example single or dual main landing gear strut compression at "Impact". With substantial crosswinds there is a good Chance you touch down with the wing lowered into the wind, i.e. the energy has to be absorbed initially from one gear strut only. However there are much more things getting into account, mainly G-Force, which is measered by accelerometers.

However, this knowledge is only required for maintenance. As a Pilot you never glance at the sinkrate indication, the second you touch down in real life. Your view is always outside of the aircraft, directing towards the opposite runway end, to get a reliable depth perception, i.e. closure rate towards the ground.

To make it more complicated, a landing is never graded on smoothness alone. Most important is the touchdown Point within the touchdown Zone (approx. 300M/100ft behind threshold). Condition of the runway is also a big factor. Wet or even snow or slush, requires a firm (of course within the design Limits) touchdown, to get immediate steering and braking control.

As a passenger it is impossible to judge a landing realistically, since you never know all relevant factors. Here it Comes to the mentioned walk away / use again criteria ;-)

I hope I have ansewered your question so far.

Regards busdriver

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In real, I can refer to my experiences and FFS-sessions, there are more factors as explained above perfectly.
But as a simmer I can say that I am happy with every landing above -250fpm because in the FFS it is really hard to achieve this rate at the real touchdown. Remember that the vertical velocity indicator(VVI) shows the past vertical sink rate and not the ACTUAL one!
I made a couple landings in the sim and above 200fpm[at last "look" before touchdown] there was always a very, very smooth landing...
The hydraulics of the gear improve every landing and stabilize the A/C itself very precisely.

All above for good conditions of course. :)

EDIT: Just look up an Airbus A320 document with recommended landing angles at touchdown. It should be in the web somewhere.
When you follow this, you can be quite sure your landing is on a high level of security and quality.

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Thank you all.. :clap_s:

I can understand that in real life its not the precision of the landing rate that matters, but the actual feel of the touchdown.. No harms done if its a 200 fpm landing or 170 fpm..you cannot tell if you are in the aircraft..

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Hello,

a good landing is one you can walk away from.

After a very good landing you can even use the plane again.

Ok, enough yokes ;)

-500 actually is a pretty hard landing. -500fps equals a descent rate of -2 1/2 meters per second so imaging to fall 2 1/2 meters in one second. You wouldn't want to hit the ground that fast!

A good landing rate is somewhere between -50 and -150.

-150 to -250 is in my opinion acceptable and everything below this is a hard landing.

Which landing technique do you use? Please describe us how you are doing it.

Thank you very much Emi..and hello.. :)

First of all is the approach..For the approaches i maintain the Vapp=Vls+5(as calculated by the mcdu) and a -700 fpm descend, which gives me a 3 deg pitch up with flaps full.

500 feet radar alt, auto pilot off, eyes out and i maintain the VS at 700 fpm or so, to aim for the touch down zone.

100 feet prepare myself for the flare.

At 50 feet i pull back the stick veeeery slightly (about 1/4) to arrest the pitch down that the aircraft does..

30 feet, retard the donuts (btw i leave the auto-throttle ON untill this time) and either simultaneously, either at 20 feet pull back the stick a couple of times to pitch up the nose and minimize the descend rate..

On a normal day, with good conditions and h headwind of 5-6 knots, this technique gives me a 200-250 fpm landing.. :(

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Thank you very much Emi..and hello.. :)

First of all is the approach..For the approaches i maintain the Vapp=Vls+5(as calculated by the mcdu) and a -700 fpm descend, which gives me a 3 deg pitch up with flaps full.

500 feet radar alt, auto pilot off, eyes out and i maintain the VS at 700 fpm or so, to aim for the touch down zone.

100 feet prepare myself for the flare.

At 50 feet i pull back the stick veeeery slightly (about 1/4) to arrest the pitch down that the aircraft does..

30 feet, retard the donuts (btw i leave the auto-throttle ON untill this time) and either simultaneously, either at 20 feet pull back the stick a couple of times to pitch up the nose and minimize the descend rate..

On a normal day, with good conditions and h headwind of 5-6 knots, this technique gives me a 200-250 fpm landing.. :(

As --- described below your post (he is a real world Airbus pilot) you should keep the power a bit longer.

I also recommend you to add a bit more speed (usually you will fly faster due to the wind correction anyway) to your approach speed. Vls+5 is the minimum you should fly during approach with a calm wind.

If you add wind correction (1/2 wind + full gusts) you will have more lift and can therefore better control the touchdown rate.

Keep one thing in mind when landing the A320: This is not a GA aircraft. You do not try to keep the Airbus in the air as long as possible until you can not stay up in the air any longer.

You rather "fly it into the ground". This means that even though you flare you will still let the Airbus descend, even though much slower than earlier in the approach.

As an example let's assume that your Vls is 135 knots and you have a wind with approx 10 knots. You will then fly 135+5+1/2*10=145.

Fly the aircraft down to approx 20ft and then retard the throttles and slightly pull back the stick to flare. Do not level the aircraft, but let it descend a bit by purpose. As soon as you touch the ground and the speedbrakes deploy all remaining lift will be destroyed and you can brake, even though you may still be above the 135kt.

And now it is time to do what all pilots have to do: Get the A320, search for a nice little airport without much traffic and join the traffic pattern for some touch and go's. I assure you that after a few hours in the traffic pattern you will be perfectly able to do a nice -100fpm landing :)

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1. That's a common misconception. Except during a crossind or flooded runway (most) pilots do try to reduce the sinkrate as much as possible and try to achieve a greaser.

2. If you are floating along, the RA showing 0ft, and you are waiting and waiting for the A320 to finally touch down, I'd consider that almost level flight ;)

Sure you are right there. Many simmers make the mistake to try to keep the Airbus in the air until it stalls as you would do with a C172 though and this is what I want to prevent him from doing ;)

I don't want to see our Airbus at 15° pitch one feet above ground on landing again ;)

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Thank you very much.. i guess that's why they call the flaring technique of the airbus the "shit pants technique".. :lolsign_s: Because you wait to get that close to the ground to start the flare.. I'll try the extra speed on Vapp and i'll wait untill 20 feet..

P.S. i never let the aircraft float over the runway or pitch up over 6 deg during the landing..better land with -250 fpm than land on the fields.. :P

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@ ---

please read my sentence again carefully: I'm talking about the touch down POINT, not the touch down ZONE. The touch down Point is approx. 300M/1000FT behind the threshold. NOT every touchdown POINT is acceptable, even within the touch down Zone.

Consider a landing at Samos Island with some 1900M landing runway. If you touch down 900M past the threshold you are still within the touch down Zone, but there are merely 1000M runway left to come to a safe stop. Thats not a good landing at all. For example within "Oneworld Airlines Group" every touch down beyond 400M - 600M (depending on runway length, glide path angle, runway slope, etc.) Triggers a flight safety Event and ruins the statistics of a safe landing.

Brgds busdriver

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Let me also point out that not even the smoothest touchdown is always good. If you touchdown above ~100-150 ft/min, it will wear out the tire more, as the tires won't start spinning immediately upon touchdown. Not even to mention that if you only focus on the touchdown rate, you might miss the touchdown zone/centerline which may cause even more serious consequences, such as runway overrun. So, always aim for the touchdown zone and centerline, and only when you're proficient with that, try to get a better rate within approximately -200 to -150 ft/min (if you want to be realistic).

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@ --- and @ Adrijan

I think the main Thing with FSX and AXE is the Overall Approach you are using it. If your prime concern is Simulation of the real world professional Airline bussiness, it soon gets a never ending process of studying.

Thats why many FSX users prefer a selfmade mixture between Gaming and Simulating. No Problem with that! There is no right or wrong...

Nevertheless I'm very pleased by Basilis question how professional pilots "rate" their landings. Because exactly at this Point, FSX and AXE leave the field of a GAME and here the Simulation starts.

To come to a conclusion, in my opinion a good landing starts with a stable Approach: On Speed, stabilized sink rate, 50FT over the threshold, flare at 20-30FT, touch down around 300M/1000FT behind threshold

and if you then manage a absolutely smooth touch down, you can stay in front of the Cockpit door and say good bye to your passengers without harassment ;-)

Regards busdriver

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